Thermophile he/him Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) Alright, obviously copper compounding can't give you information that you didn't already have, but it could increase their clarity. I refer to this (imperfectly quoted) line from Breeze: "I can't go anywhere where the Lord Ruler will be, because he's seen me before, and you know he has a flawless memory" Therefore, copper compounding allows you to enhance memories to the point where you can remember everything you've ever seen perfectly. In the AoL, a copper compounder could skim every book ever published, and be able to recite any of them word-for-word. Sorry if this was a bit obvious, just wanted to put it out there. Edited November 20, 2015 by Thermophile 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Brandon's been a bit tight-lipped on the subject actually, many people assume what you do (Including me) but others think it does something else like gaining more information or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charononus Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Alright, obviously copper compounding can't give you information that you didn't already have, but it could increase their clarity. I refer to this (imperfectly quoted) line from Breeze: "I can't go anywhere where the Lord Ruler will be, because he's seen me before, and you know he has a perfect memory" Therefore, copper compounding allows you to enhance memories to the point where you can remember everything you've ever seen perfectly. In the AoL, a copper compounder could skim every book ever published, and be able to recite any of them word-for-word. Sorry if this was a bit obvious, just wanted to put it out there. I recently started going thru the original trilogy again, and had the same thoughts. Man I think copper feruchemy has to be the magic I wish for the most out of all the fantasy book magic powers I've read. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermophile he/him Posted November 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) If I got to have one investiture, it would probably be Feruchemy. Possibly Elantrianism, but the weird hair and skin color (plus the reigonality of its abilities) might make it more trouble than it's worth. Edited November 20, 2015 by Thermophile 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comatose he/him Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Alright, obviously copper compounding can't give you information that you didn't already have, but it could increase their clarity. I refer to this (imperfectly quoted) line from Breeze: "I can't go anywhere where the Lord Ruler will be, because he's seen me before, and you know he has a perfect memory" Therefore, copper compounding allows you to enhance memories to the point where you can remember everything you've ever seen perfectly. In the AoL, a copper compounder could skim every book ever published, and be able to recite any of them word-for-word. Sorry if this was a bit obvious, just wanted to put it out there. I believe Breeze's exact words were "flawless memory", but that's neither here nor there . I'm not disputing your theory about copper compounding, but the Lord Ruler might just have a photographic memory on top of his Feruchemy. His uncle Kwaan did, at least, so we know its in his genetics. I always thought that comment was just foreshadowing/a hint about Kwaan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermophile he/him Posted November 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 I believe Breeze's exact words were "flawless memory", but that's neither here nor there . I'm not disputing your theory about copper compounding, but the Lord Ruler might just have a photographic memory on top of his Feruchemy. His uncle Kwaan did, at least, so we know its in his genetics. I always thought that comment was just foreshadowing/a hint about Kwaan. Fixed it so it says flawless now (when writing the comment, I was actually really torn on which one to use). And Kwaan said that he could 'memorize entire pages at once' which, although impressive, is not the same as recognizing a guy you saw once twenty years ago, and later learned from a report that he was a spy. However, he could have used the Well of Ascension to alter his own genetic code for that. I did hear somebody mention that he used the Well to give himself super-powered Allomancy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle of the Forest Path he/him Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Alright, obviously copper compounding can't give you information that you didn't already have... Why not? From The Emperor's Soul we know that items have memories too (e.g. a window frame remembers it once held a stained glass window). From several WoBs we know that compounding changes the source of the released attributes (i.e. they come from the power of Preservation instead of from the compounder himself). I have this theory about Feruchemy where the attributes are actually stored in the Cognitive realm and the physical metalmind functions as a link. But when Compounding the power comes from Preservation, which is in the Spiritual realm. So it's not out of the question that something other than the originally stored memories get released when burning a coppermind. Even if you keep the contents of the coppermind involved, you don't have to limit yourself to the memories currently stored in it. Imagine, you read The Way of Kings (by Nohadon) and store it in your coppermind. You later retrieve it and use the same coppermind to store Words of Radiance, which you also retrieve later. Finally you store Arts and Majesty in the same coppermind and then use it for compounding. Because of the increased power, suddenly not only Arts and Majesty gets poured back into your head, but also Words of Radiance, The Way of Kings and any other memories that had once been stored in that particular coppermind. Alternatively, because of the Spiritual realm's involvement in compounding, burning a metalmind could retrieve information by gathering it via the Feruchemist's spiritual connections. Possible effects could be that you suddenly have your wife's memories, or that you retrieve memories stored in your other copperminds (if a Feruchemist doesn't have a spiritual connection to his own metalminds, he'd have to be a sociopath IMO). Could be you receive memories from Preservation himself (seems to be a common theory, though I have my doubts). Just to say that there are a lot of ways copper compounding could work, besides increasing clarity or intensity or (permanence). About the 'flawless memory' quote, that doesn't necessarily have to indicate compounding. Compared to normal memory, just regular copper feruchemy would be impressive enough to seem flawless. At the time of the quote we knew absolutely nothing about compounding, we didn't even know about the existence of Feruchemy yet, so that quote could simply be a clue that TLR was secretly a Feruchemist, and have little to do with compounding at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata he/him Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 I though the same than EdgeofTheForestPath about the possible working of Copper Comounding. Anyway we have to remember that our dear Rashek was a very strange being and not only because he was a FullBorn. It's the only living Sliver that we ever saw in the all Cosmere. He experienced is mind expanded to a Shardic-level for some minutes. We don't know what kind of conseguence had to his mind after the Ascension. His perfect memory may be the result of his previous Status. Just to add it to the already long possible causes of his memory: - He had his memory from the beginning - He used the Copper Feruchemy - He used the Copper Compound - He lied and he had no perfect memory (or also other created mythes about him) - His former status as a Sliver give him some extra cognitive ability 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermophile he/him Posted November 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) - He lied and he had no perfect memory (or also other created mythes about him)He obvioulsy had something. I'm inclined to believe that he did have perfect memory, what with him being able to tell if Vin was lying (probably). If he spread rumors about being able to tell if you're lying, and it was true, he probably has the perfect memory too.Why not?Mostly because the Lord Ruler didn't seem to do it. If he could gain significant quantities of information he didn't already posses, he probably would have spread word about it around in some way or another. Then again, maybe that's where his ability to detect lies came from. Edited November 23, 2015 by Thermophile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter he/him Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 Eh, I just reread the trilogy and at one point in WoA, when Sazed is helping out with the refugees he mentions that he uses his copper minds to remember their names. It seems pretty much exactly like what Rashek was doing, no compounding necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charononus Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 Eh, I just reread the trilogy and at one point in WoA, when Sazed is helping out with the refugees he mentions that he uses his copper minds to remember their names. It seems pretty much exactly like what Rashek was doing, no compounding necessary. If that's the case, it's another reason I badly wish I could use copper feruchemy. I can't count the number times I've run into someone and they've known my name and I've been "yeah, hi, how are you, it's been so long since...., .... ...." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSC01 he/him Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 I've said this before, but I the most popular theories about copper compounding--HD memories, imprinting a permanent memory, etc--don't make much sense. I think that it creates a sort of magical AI. See, when one stores memories, I think that it's storing the brain activity associated with the memory. It's not like writing down information at all. When one compounds a memory, it just makes a huge number of copies of the same information, but all of those recorded brain waves will create their own neural net after a while. The copper compounder then acquires a smart coppermind that can maintain itself (no need to re-record memories and such) and is much easier to work with. No poring through indexes, etc--you just tell the coppermind what you need, and it supplies it. When you're done, you don't have to worry about putting the memory back because it already will have self-replicated it. And if it gets smart enough, you probably wouldn't even have to tell it what you want to know, as it would anticipate your needs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermophile he/him Posted November 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 See, when one stores memories, I think that it's storing the brain activity associated with the memory. Although the information to remember things perfectely exists within ones brain (those with eidetic memories are evidence of this), we simply cannot retrieve that information perfectely, as that would cause our brain to be flooded. The use of investiture grants protection against the ill effects of using it, such as not being sqished by tapping weight rapidly. I am proposing that compounding copper, and then retrieving the memories, allows one to not only recall every detail flawlessly, but to not have your brain flooded by the exess data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata he/him Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Another option was about Copper Feruchemy+ mental Speed Feruchemy.Rashek had quite infinite amount of Mental Speed. All his Incredible Mental Feat may be caused by a costant use of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 I'm more curious about his lie detection than his memory, to be honest. Nothing comes to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 I'm more curious about his lie detection than his memory, to be honest. Nothing comes to mind. I was pretty sure it was stated that he did it through listening to heart-rates. (And presumably other things like pupil dilation, sweat production, etc.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle of the Forest Path he/him Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) He might have used über-Tin to detect micro-expressions and detect changes in heart-rate etcetera. Edit: Voidus beat me to it. Edited November 23, 2015 by EagleOfTheForestPath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata he/him Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) He had 1000 years to study and practice on a lot of field. Without put in action the Magic He was probably an expert in many areas. There is in the real world people that through study may learn to detect lie (and emotion in general).Add to this the Tin (Allomantic and Feruchemical) and all make sense. Also the Elend father was a skilled Tineye and you may see how he can use it. Edited November 23, 2015 by Yata Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermophile he/him Posted November 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) I was pretty sure it was stated that he did it through listening to heart-rates. (And presumably other things like pupil dilation, sweat production, etc.) Real life lie detectors are far from perfect (both human and machine). However, if you can convince the other person you can see into their soul (a little electrum compounding), their lies will become a lot more obvious, especially if you have a millenia of practice. Besides, if the Lord Ruler says you're lying, who are you to contradict him? Although I still think it would be cool if copper compounding allowed you to get information like that. Edited November 23, 2015 by Thermophile 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Real life lie detectors are far from perfect (both human and machine). However, if you can convince the other person you can see into their soul (a little electrum compounding), their lies will become a lot more obvious, especially if you have a millenia of practice. Besides, if the Lord Ruler says you're lying, who are you to contradict him. Although I still think it would be cool if copper compounding allowed you to get information like that. Agreed but plenty of people put their faith in them so I'm willing to accept it as a literary device. Just imagining the Lord Ruler in The invention of lying. "I invented the bicycle." "I love your work." "I'm a one-armed German space explorer." "When's your launch date?" "That's a very lifelike prosthetic." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermophile he/him Posted November 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 I never understood that story. A society without falsehoods should be literally impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 It's that we suck at honesty that it never works. There's no practical reason it wouldn't that comes to mind for me, besides the occasional moral grey area brutal honesty falls into, or just generally people being rusting gits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charononus Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Real life lie detectors are far from perfect (both human and machine). However, if you can convince the other person you can see into their soul (a little electrum compounding), their lies will become a lot more obvious, especially if you have a millenia of practice. Besides, if the Lord Ruler says you're lying, who are you to contradict him? Although I still think it would be cool if copper compounding allowed you to get information like that. I think the thing to remember with it, is the polygraph was invented in 1921. With compounded senses and allomantic tin, TLR could probably get all the same data points thru his senses, if he wanted to. That means he's had 1000 years of practice at it, where as we've had less than 100 with the polygraph. Combine that with provoking the emotional state he wants with allomancy, I have no problem believe he's better at detecting a lie than our current polygraph tech, excluding perhaps fmri based lie detection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charononus Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 It's that we suck at honesty that it never works. There's no practical reason it wouldn't that comes to mind for me, besides the occasional moral grey area brutal honesty falls into, or just generally people being rusting gits. I disagree. Lots of social interactions fall apart without lies. How do you comfort the dying person without lies, that it's all going to be ok? How do you smooth something over by apologizing, when you view yourself to have not been in the wrong? This doesn't even get into small talk of "hi how are you?", "I'm fine and you?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermophile he/him Posted November 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) Combine that with provoking the emotional state he wants with allomancy, I have no problem believe he's better at detecting a lie than our current polygraph tech, excluding perhaps fmri based lie detection. TLR was using a butt-ton of emotional allomancy on Vin when he questioned her. I don't remember exactly what it said, something about losing all hope, and that there was 'no point in lying'. note: You should probably multi-quote rather than double post. Edited November 23, 2015 by Thermophile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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