Scadrial precious metals

[killersquirrel59]

Is there a reason we automatically assume gold is valuable on Scadrial? Think about it for a minute. Gold has no intrinsic worth (on Earth or Scadrial) before its practical application in electronic components.

On Earth it acquired the sense of value out of a sense of wonder at the fact that it is shiny and doesn't heat up in the hand. That makes sense given the past cultures of Earth.

 

However, the cultures on Scadrial, particularly post-Ascension, are far more practical than early Earth cultures. The world-spanning religion is an enormous bureaucracy. Furthermore, gold is already looked down on in Allomantic circles, generally being seen as useless. So why would it be considered valuable? We know from TFE that there are coins minted from Gold, but for all we know that could be their equivalent of saying "Well, we don't have anything else to do with this useless garbage metal, so let's make coins out of it".

[baby]

In Alloy of Law, gold is stated to be very expensive, on the bar with platinum, but not as much as aluminum. Also, Miles was desperately in need of gold for his compounding, and it's stated that gold is hard to come by unless you have the money.

[killersquirrel59]

And I can see that being more the case in Era 2, where gold is valued for Feruchemy. But during the Final Empire, no one knew about that, and the only practical use for Gold was seen as the most useless of Allomancy powers.

[king of nowhere]

gold is rare. it's not just rare on earth, it is rare because there is few of it in the universe, because the element heaveir than iron are produced in supernovae and a nuclear phisicist will be able to explain exactly why. while most of the value it's given on earth is cultural, rarity allone would ensure that it has some value. certainlly it would not be so cheap that they would make small coins with it. even if they did, using it for coins because it doesn't rust is a value by itself, and would ensure gold is precious enough.

[Charononus]

gold is rare. it's not just rare on earth, it is rare because there is few of it in the universe, because the element heaveir than iron are produced in supernovae and a nuclear phisicist will be able to explain exactly why. while most of the value it's given on earth is cultural, rarity allone would ensure that it has some value. certainlly it would not be so cheap that they would make small coins with it. even if they did, using it for coins because it doesn't rust is a value by itself, and would ensure gold is precious enough.

IIRC and I may not be doing so.  I think that it's not just any supernova that makes it either,  but a type of exceptionally powerful supernova.

 

It's also useful for jewelry because it's easily shaped (compared to other metals) and is highly corrosion resistant.  Think about it this way.  It was valued here on earth long before we used electricity. 

[Eagle of the Forest Path]

It's also useful for jewelry because it's easily shaped (compared to other metals) and is highly corrosion resistant.  Think about it this way.  It was valued here on earth long before we used electricity. 

 

And if it's easy to shape for jewelry, it's also easy to shape for coinage.

That it doesn't corrode (for all practical intents and purposes) is an additional reason to base your monetary system on it, since a coin that eats itself over time isn't what anyone wants, now is it?

 

If you want, you could look at the gold standard for more info.

[Yata]

Just because is the more useless of the Allomantic metal, the Gold had a lot of wonderfull proprieties and is rare (and is the same for the silver) .

All of this put him as valuable in the final empire, also if the gold is the "useless" cousin of the other allomantic Metals, is anyway an Allomantic metal and that give him an shadow of mystery and maybe the high cost of gold stopped people of the final empire to discover the Electrum( TLR plan ? ).

 

Anyway after the discovered of the Electrum the gold had a new "golden age" (yeah i know bad joke XD). The Electrum also if a lot of people think to him as "poor atium" had is own purpose in the Allomancy if you know how use it. Without speak about the Feruchemical use that store Determination. (But to be honest about Feruchemical use we must thank an old error during the print of the first trilogy of mistborn).

[natc]

He put the electrum recipe in the caches, so he probably wanted to cover up its existence until the world was done for. It will completely cripple the atium economy after all, since gold and silver are significantly cheaper (the irony) and will protect you from other mistborn without risking your own atium. If Elend can procure enough during the end-times then surely it won't be difficult for nobles at the height of the Empire: everyone will be burning it constantly in battle, so atium ends up a powerful but practically useless metal against mistborn, the only thing you would have difficulty overpowering.

Also, yeah, gold is probably still rare and definitely still shiny. And doesn't corrode well. Plus, as said, impossible to synthesize in nature even with a star, as they usually collapse when they eventually form iron by the end of their lifespans, IIRC. You need way too much energy to fuse anything heavier than iron, much less gold.

[king of nowhere]

the corrosion resistant thing make me think, it gold wasn't so damnation rare it could have a lot of application. think about coating with gold the keel of a wooden ship to avoid it rotting. or making roofs with it. so gold is bound to be valuable.

[EdroGrimshell]

the corrosion resistant thing make me think, it gold wasn't so damnation rare it could have a lot of application. think about coating with gold the keel of a wooden ship to avoid it rotting. or making roofs with it. so gold is bound to be valuable.

It's also heavy as damnation so that's not good for ships or roofs. Even a thin layer would add a good bit of excess weight. They used copper for that in Luthadel as I remember it personally, and, while it tarnishes, it won't decay/corrode quickly like wood or iron wood, making it more than adequate even for the higher echelons of the city.

[Charononus]

Plus, as said, impossible to synthesize in nature even with a star, as they usually collapse when they eventually form iron by the end of their lifespans, IIRC. You need way too much energy to fuse anything heavier than iron, much less gold.

This isn't exactly true.  We can make gold in nuclear reactors.  It's just not cost efficient as it costs more to do so than the gold produced is worth. 

Very basic overview from wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthesis_of_precious_metals#Gold

[natc]

Of course you can make gold in nuclear reactors.

We're talking about trying to fuse enough to fill planets adequately using nothing but stars and supernovas (and considering what stars actually use for fuel we're making gold out of hydrogen and other light gases as the base, of all things), which without some form of human intervention would always on average produce the easiest and most stable result.

I mean, why bring up artificial nuclear fusion in response to a statement about the natural synthesis of gold in the universe? That's kind of strange of you.

[king of nowhere]

It's also heavy as damnation so that's not good for ships or roofs. Even a thin layer would add a good bit of excess weight. They used copper for that in Luthadel as I remember it personally, and, while it tarnishes, it won't decay/corrode quickly like wood or iron wood, making it more than adequate even for the higher echelons of the city.

you are forgetting how malleable gold is.

 

quoting from http://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/past-exhibitions/gold/incomparable-gold/gold-properties

Gold is malleable, so it can be flattened into extremely thin sheets. The walls of the Gold Room are covered with approximately 28 square meters (300 square feet) of 23-karat gold leaf representing 3 ounces of gold metal. Gold leafing--also known as gilding--is an ancient technique. Traditional artisans beat raw gold between pieces of leather until it was almost too thin to be seen. One ounce of gold may be hammered thin enough to cover more than 9 square meters (96.9 square feet) of a surface. The gold leaf may be only 0.18 microns (seven millionths of an inch) thick; a stack of 7,055 sheets would be no thicker than a dime.

 

 

and most important, it can be flattened that thin with manual techniques. I've seen it done; they hammer on a gold sheet, then they fold it in two, cut the side, put a piece of paper between the two sheets, hammer again, fold again the bigger sheet, and so on. So, you could coat a whole sheep keel or rooftop with a kilogram of the stuff or two. Since it won't corrode or leak, that thin sheet is enough.

 

Although I'll give you, it takes a lot of work to make gold so thin and apply it as coating, so even if gold was unexpensive using it for cover would not be cheap.

[Charononus]

Of course you can make gold in nuclear reactors.

We're talking about trying to fuse enough to fill planets adequately using nothing but stars and supernovas (and considering what stars actually use for fuel we're making gold out of hydrogen and other light gases as the base, of all things), which without some form of human intervention would always on average produce the easiest and most stable result.

I mean, why bring up artificial nuclear fusion in response to a statement about the natural synthesis of gold in the universe? That's kind of strange of you.

Misunderstanding,  I typically read synthesis as an artificial process,  and reading quickly,  didn't realize you were talking about natural production rather than man made.

[EdroGrimshell]

you are forgetting how malleable gold is.

 

quoting from http://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/past-exhibitions/gold/incomparable-gold/gold-properties

 

and most important, it can be flattened that thin with manual techniques. I've seen it done; they hammer on a gold sheet, then they fold it in two, cut the side, put a piece of paper between the two sheets, hammer again, fold again the bigger sheet, and so on. So, you could coat a whole sheep keel or rooftop with a kilogram of the stuff or two. Since it won't corrode or leak, that thin sheet is enough.

 

Although I'll give you, it takes a lot of work to make gold so thin and apply it as coating, so even if gold was unexpensive using it for cover would not be cheap.

Except, because it's so soft and malleable, gold leaf and thin sheets would be easy to rip and end up spotty, letting water into the thing it's coating, to prevent that you'd need to make it a bit thicker. And with the constant ashfalls and crashing waves, you'd need to make them thick enough to resist those elements, not to mention peeling off barnacles from a ship's hull causing the gold to warp or rip in some way, possible even tearing up.

[king of nowhere]

I don't know about mechanical resistance. there are pieces of gold-covered ironwork in the versailles palace, and while the place is 400 years old, they are still in good shape. so they can at least take rain. also, on occasions in europe we get fine sand in the rain when wind is blowing on the sahara, so it resisted the occasional mechanincal corrosion of that sandy rain too. i don't know how the ashfalls of scadrial compare to sand, and they are much more frequent, but i wouldn't expect gold to corrode mechanically from those before a  few centuries.

 

As for barnacles, I am reasonably sure they use the rock's natural asperity to anchor to them, so they would be unable lo latch on a sheet of gold. Not 100% sure, though.

[Arrae]

I always thought that Atium was Scadrial' precious metal. Gold was probably viewed as worthless until gold compounding was discovered. After all, why would you want to give yourself headaches?

[Charononus]

I always thought that Atium was Scadrial' precious metal. Gold was probably viewed as worthless until gold compounding was discovered. After all, why would you want to give yourself headaches?

There is more than one precious metal.  Atium had it's worth only because of magic,  but other precious metals have worth for other reasons.

[skaa]

During the Final Empire, gold was considered one of the two "high metals" (Kelsier's term) along with atium.

 

From the scenes with Camon, having a suit with gold buttons and having a golden pocket watch were considered signs of wealth.

 

There was a golden altar within Kredik Shaw. Why would they use a worthless material for the altar of their god?

 

The Lord Prelan Tevidian (the highest ranking obligator) wore a golden "robe-scarf" as part of his administrative robe to distinguish him from other obligators. It appears to be a symbol of honor.

 

The following lines also imply that Era 1 Scadrians valued gold more than other metals:

 

And…there were the time-affecting metals: gold and its alloy, and atium and its alloy.

That means there’s another metal. One that hasn’t been discovered—probably because atium and gold are too valuable to forge into different alloys.

 

The group of rings, clasps, ear loops, bracelets, and other bits of metal gleamed on the table like a treasure hoard of legend. Of course, most of the metals were rather mundane. Iron, steel, tin, copper. No gold or atium.

 

Edited November 17, 2015 by skaa