iBambam Posted January 11, 2016 Posted January 11, 2016 (edited) I think to us, in our universe, we call it magic. For the populations of the Cosmere, it may very well be science. In fact, I think that a character on Scadrial studying Allomancy or Feruchemy would call it scientific research, but if said scientist witnessed an awakening or the use of an Aon, or sees someone heading themselves with stormlight, could that scientist not proclaim that to be magic? Edited January 11, 2016 by iBambam
Oversleep Posted January 11, 2016 Posted January 11, 2016 We're treading philosophical waters here. It's much like the question "What is fantasy?". I'd like to quote the author of the Witcher series, Andrzej Sapkowski: "Fantasy is what publisher describes as fantasy". So magic is what we call magic.
Stormgate he/him Posted January 11, 2016 Posted January 11, 2016 Magic is something that one is unfamiliar with that can be used to achieve seemingly supernatural feats. I'm perfectly fine with technology meeting this definition.
Yata he/him Posted January 11, 2016 Posted January 11, 2016 We're treading philosophical waters here. It's much like the question "What is fantasy?". I'd like to quote the author of the Witcher series, Andrzej Sapkowski: "Fantasy is what publisher describes as fantasy". So magic is what we call magic. This is the best definition about that problem Just a week ago me and a friend of mine began to talk over "Star Wars is a Fantasy set in the Space"(my point) and "It can't be a fantasy, because there isn't magic" (his point). Of course for him the Force isn't magic, without any real reason (to be honest there were reasons but they were quite stupid).
iBambam Posted January 11, 2016 Posted January 11, 2016 We're treading philosophical waters here. It's much like the question "What is fantasy?". I'd like to quote the author of the Witcher series, Andrzej Sapkowski: "Fantasy is what publisher describes as fantasy". So magic is what we call magic. So for us, everything in the Cosmere may not be magic, if Sanderson considers it science in the Cosmere? At least based on that definition.
Pathfinder Posted January 11, 2016 Posted January 11, 2016 Didn't the Alcatraz series state that magic is when only a select people can do something while science is something anyone can do/use? So the talents were magic, but the various technologies from the glass were science. Though later that did begin to blur......
DreamEternal Posted January 11, 2016 Posted January 11, 2016 Didn't the Alcatraz series state that magic is when only a select people can do something while science is something anyone can do/use? So the talents were magic, but the various technologies from the glass were science. Though later that did begin to blur...... What about hemalurgy? And awakening?
Pathfinder Posted January 11, 2016 Posted January 11, 2016 (edited) What about hemalurgy? And awakening? Hemalurgy would be science because anyone with the right knowledge could stab anyone from any system and gain any attribute or power. Awakening could be considered science too. Even if you are not from Nalthis, you could be given breath and then awaken. edit: Conversely allomancy would be magic because you have to be born that way in order to use it. So not anyone could do it. Unless you thrown the godmetals in. Then maybe it could be argued by ingesting a godmetal, anyone could do allomancy but I think that's a stretch. Edited January 11, 2016 by Pathfinder
Oversleep Posted January 11, 2016 Posted January 11, 2016 Didn't the Alcatraz series state that magic is when only a select people can do something while science is something anyone can do/use? So the talents were magic, but the various technologies from the glass were science. Though later that did begin to blur...... The Nalthis argument has already been brought up. If everyone on the planet is magic, then what?
Pathfinder Posted January 11, 2016 Posted January 11, 2016 The Nalthis argument has already been brought up. If everyone on the planet is magic, then what? Not sure I understand what you are saying. Everyone on the planet isn't magic using what was stated in Alcatraz. Awakening I believe would be science, but the returned would be magic. Since endowment picks. So someone couldn't one day decide to learn to be a returned. But someone could decide they wanted to learn to be an awakener and buy breaths.
Oversleep Posted January 11, 2016 Posted January 11, 2016 If I understood you correctly, you draw a line between "anyone can do it" and "few can do it"? I'd say it's not terribly useful definition - if Sazed suddenly decided to turn everyone on Scadrial into Metalborn, then Metallic Arts stop being magic and become technology?
Pathfinder Posted January 11, 2016 Posted January 11, 2016 (edited) If I understood you correctly, you draw a line between "anyone can do it" and "few can do it"? I'd say it's not terribly useful definition - if Sazed suddenly decided to turn everyone on Scadrial into Metalborn, then Metallic Arts stop being magic and become technology? Basically. Well more the reason why few can do it. In the Alcatraz series by Sanderson (if you have not read it, totally do so, they are hilarious), the smedry's talent's are magic because only they can do it. The only way a person could attain a talent, is through marriage to a Smedry. Period. Meanwhile the abilities from the glass anyone could pick up and use. Ok so here is another example. The wizards and witches from Harry Potter is magic because only they can use wands to cast spells. Conversely the wands in one of Harry Turtledove's novels is science because the wands are developed like guns, and passed to soldiers who use the charges in the wands almost like muskets. edit: Where it gets fuzzy is when people start to figure out the origin of the smedry talents and the abilities of the glass. But I would be massively spoiling the series if you haven't read it and it is really worth the read. Edited January 11, 2016 by Pathfinder
Stormgate he/him Posted January 11, 2016 Posted January 11, 2016 On the whole, I'm not entirely sure it matters what the definition of magic is. What were we talking about that got us to this topic?
DreamEternal Posted January 11, 2016 Posted January 11, 2016 On the whole, I'm not entirely sure it matters what the definition of magic is. What were we talking about that got us to this topic? I think it was because I said investiture is magic, even if it follows measurable rules.
Pathfinder Posted January 11, 2016 Posted January 11, 2016 Just wanted to post to apologize that i had missed what was written on what is now page 4, so I did not realize Cam9ryn Stormblessed already mentioned Alcatraz. My thoughts still stand, but I thought that was the first mention of it lol.
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