What happens to Parshendi when they die?

[IllNsickly]

I have been in the Gavilar was the Parshendi Shardbearer court since i first read the sequence. Sooooooo.... Dalinar dying and Becoming a Parshendi Shardbearer fits my little hallucination quite nicely.

[WeiryWriter]

I have been in the Gavilar was the Parshendi Shardbearer court since i first read the sequence. Sooooooo.... Dalinar dying and Becoming a Parshendi Shardbearer fits my little hallucination quite nicely.

 

You mean the Parshendi Dalinar fights during the Battle of the Tower?  If so it is definitively false (sorry), we know that shardbearer's identity, her name is Eshonai and she has a series of interludes in WoR.

Edited December 18, 2013 by WeiryWriter

[Shardlet]

I have been in the Gavilar was the Parshendi Shardbearer court since i first read the sequence. Sooooooo.... Dalinar dying and Becoming a Parshendi Shardbearer fits my little hallucination quite nicely.

 

 

You mean the Parshendi Dalinar fights during the Battle of the Tower?  If so it is definitively false (sorry), we know that shardbearer's identity, her name is Eshonai and she has a series of interludes in WoR.

 

Most importantly, Eshonai was contemporary with Gavilar.

[IllNsickly]

Most importantly, Eshonai was contemporary with Gavilar.

After reading all of the transcriptions from readings (that I found at 2am today) i knew my idea was wrong. i appreciate the responses, though.

[Shardlet]

After reading all of the transcriptions from readings (that I found at 2am today) i knew my idea was wrong. i appreciate the responses, though.

 

It has been theorized that when killed by a shardblade, one is 'reborn' or respawned as a parshendi, though.  It is not something I personally subscribe to, but you are not terribly far off in your idea with what some others have thought.  Your idea just had more flare and style  .

[+eveorjoy]

It has been theorized that when killed by a shardblade, one is 'reborn' or respawned as a parshendi, though.  It is not something I personally subscribe to, but you are not terribly far off in your idea with what some others have thought.  Your idea just had more flare and style  .

 

Hmm, Interesting theory, but where would the parshendi go?

[Shardlet]

Hmm, Interesting theory, but where would the parshendi go?

 

Cremlings? On second thought.  I don't like the secondary implications of that joke.  How about...Aimians?  Nope, there would be lots and lots of Aimians that turned up in the last five years.  Umm...I think they turn into happy thoughts or nice music.  

Edited December 18, 2013 by Shardlet

[Bloodfalcon]

Hmm, Interesting theory, but where would the parshendi go?

 

 

Cremlings? On second thought.  I don't like the secondary implications of that joke.  How about...Aimians?  Nope, there would be lots and lots of Aimians that turned up in the last five years.  Umm...I think they turn into happy thoughts or nice music.  

Lots of different people have suggested they might turn into chasmfiends under the right conditions! It's been discussed to exhaustion, so if you are interested, I would suggest searching it.

[Shardlet]

You got to be careful with that line of thought, though.  That suggests, at least loosely, that Parshendi are less 'people' than humans are.

[Bloodfalcon]

You got to be careful with that line of thought, though.  That suggests, at least loosely, that Parshendi are less 'people' than humans are.

No it doesn't.. My opinions aside, going into a form that is almost 0 intellectual, almost 100 physical doesn't seem like a stretch for a race that can go 60/40 or 25/75 in the same manner. 

 But they are less "people" for the most part. Their forms are created through spren. The percentage of "people" that they are just went down. They are not the humans that are created on every planet. I consider them just as much "people" as Kandra. 

[Shardlet]

People, to Brandon's way of thinking, refers to sentient beings.  So, even Parshmen, as evidenced by Shen, are 'people'.  Also, as I'm sure you are aware, SF/F writers commonly use 'lesser' races as a mirror for our interactions and treatment of other races.  I have no doubt that your meaning is clear though.  I think that your comparison to Kandra is very apt.  The Kandra are indeed 'people'.  They are a species though which has a cognitive block which is breached by their spikes.

 

This raises many philosophical questions in Brandon's works.  By all appearances, we would normally term mistwraiths as animals, not people.  However, they are people, they are just very cognitively impaired.  The Parshmen are regarded as little more than animals.  But, we see that they are people who are apparently cognitively impaired.  There is even suggestion in the Rysn interlude that the greatshells in the Reshi Sea are sentient, via a spren bond, and are therefore people.  Does this signify a broad implication that much of the animal life on Roshar is potentially people with with some kind of similar cognitive impairment?  If so, what is the reflection of that on us? 

[Bloodfalcon]

People, to Brandon's way of thinking, refers to sentient beings.  So, even Parshmen, as evidenced by Shen, are 'people'.  Also, as I'm sure you are aware, SF/F writers commonly use 'lesser' races as a mirror for our interactions and treatment of other races.  I have no doubt that your meaning is clear though.  I think that your comparison to Kandra is very apt.  The Kandra are indeed 'people'.  They are a species though which has a cognitive block which is breached by their spikes.

 

This raises many philosophical questions in Brandon's works.  By all appearances, we would normally term mistwraiths as animals, not people.  However, they are people, they are just very cognitively impaired.  The Parshmen are regarded as little more than animals.  But, we see that they are people who are apparently cognitively impaired.  There is even suggestion in the Rysn interlude that the greatshells in the Reshi Sea are sentient, via a spren bond, and are therefore people.  Does this signify a broad implication that much of the animal life on Roshar is potentially people with with some kind of similar cognitive impairment?  If so, what is the reflection of that on us? 

I'm glad you caught my meaning there. I don't consider them turning into Chasmfiends to be an ethical dilemma as far as our conversations are concerned (it absolutely would be with Alethi ripping out their hearts ) because there it is understood that they change form and their minds and bodies undergo transformations. Brandon is clearly trying to evoke sympathy for the Parshendii/Parshmen at different points in the book, and I understand the correlation to real scenarios, which is precisely why it is good to consider things like the Pashendi being chasmfiends. If he is going to challenge those views, that might be a great way to do it! When does one stop being a "people"? When your body is completely different? Your mind? What if you still have the same soul all the while? I'm not writing any of that in as fact, but my point is that that line of thinking is constructive here, where it applies. By one definition of people - sentient beings- Chasmfiends may not apply. By another, they might. If the cause was that the Pashendii warrior died and then the deathspren transformed him, does that still make him a people when he is a giant worm-lobster? Does that mean a zombified version a human would be a "people"?

[Shardbearer]

So is a Ryshadium a person too?

[Shardlet]

IDK, it depends on what level of sentience Brandon has given them and what level of Sentience he meant when he discussed his sentient beings are people comment.  It was a side comment to combat the quivering of someone who jumped to conclusions when Brandon used the word "person" (or 'people', I can't recall which off the top of my head).  It might be worth asking a question about to get a more fleshed out understanding of 'people according to Brandon'.

[+eveorjoy]

So is a Ryshadium a person too?

 

Sure, why not.

 

Seriously though, I doubt Chasmfiends are dead parshendi. They have killed tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of parshendi since they began the war. There aren't enough Chasmfiends to account for all the deaths.

 

I can't wait of March 4th.

[Bloodfalcon]

Sure, why not.

 

Seriously though, I doubt Chasmfiends are dead parshendi. They have killed tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of parshendi since they began the war. There aren't enough Chasmfiends to account for all the deaths.

 

I can't wait of March 4th.

There are if you consider it might take certain circumstances for that to occur. Could be the reason that the Parshendii move away their dead and are offended when the process is disturbed. And if the ones swept into the chasms are converted, and then lose their minds, what is to stop them from killing other Parshendii? Like I said, it is a plausible theory that has been discussed if you want to go look it up. I myself don't want this to be the case.

 

Edited December 18, 2013 by Bloodfalcon

[hoser]

This touches on something I have been wondering.  The Reshi "islands" seem to me to be clearly people.  Are the Chasmfiends people?  I find it hard to gauge their intelligence and ability to communicate. 

 

Now to make a comment to tie this into the thread topic ... trying ... failing.

[Cheese Ninja]

Deleted: wrong thread

Edited December 18, 2013 by Cheese Ninja

[marianmi]

I don't think there are many cognitively impaired that can be classified as 'people'. A while ago I was thinking of starting the topic if the Reshi greatshells island are 'people', if their spren is an intelligent Adonalsium spren. However, upon further considerations, there are several things that stand out:

* Parshmen, without any spren, are still intelligent (Shen). A spren bond improves their attributes, but "higher intelligence" is there already. 

* For the mistwraits, you have a spike to break the block. That's an invested object. The spren is more than that - it's a splinter, an invested "thing" with sentience. So it's not clear if the Reshi islands sentience is gained from the spren, or unblocked by the spren. For the parshendi, this is not applicable, because they are sentient without a spren.

* People also gain something from bonding spren, but, again, not sentience.

* Looks to me spren can bond 2 things: sentient races (humans, parshendi - probably aimians too? what do we get when an aimian bonds? hmmmm); and animals with gemhearts (probably because spren are invested + sentient, gemheart probably the "body" of a Shard => sentient greatshell with probably some tricks up their sleeves ?)

[Shardlet]

...animals with gemhearts (probably because spren are invested + sentient, gemheart probably the "body" of a Shard => sentient greatshell with probably some tricks up their sleeves ?)

 

Ahh, but are gemhearts a result of the bond or do they facilitate the bond?

[marianmi]

The gemhearts are a result of a rift of the spiritual realm.

[Gloom]

According to TWOKs, Parshendi rot when they die.

[DocHoliday]

According to TWOKs, Parshendi rot when they die.

The Physical manifestations rot. Spiritual/Cognitive is still a possibility; especially considering thier propensity to bond different Spren to create new forms.

Note: I do not endorse this idea, I am speculating. I personally believe Parshendi move to what ever after life awaits in the Spiritual Realm. I personally believe Chasm fiend are a splinter species/evolved form of the bug Rysn receives in WoR/ Darkness pulls out to eat Stormlight.

[Sasukerinnegan]

Wait, gemhearts are the result of a rift from the spiritual realm.... do we have WoB on this?? Bcoz if this is true, the gemhearts are in all probability the physical body of Honor or Cultivation...(earlier we had WoB that atium was a leak from the spiritual realm and that proved to be the physical body of Ruin)

[Swimmingly]

Brandon has mentioned that when you start playing around with Shardic magic, you often arrive with sentience. The Old Magic appears to be Cultivation doing just that - playing around with Shardic magic and basically doing whatever she storming wants to with it. Perhaps sentient non-human life on Roshar resulted from Cultivations experiments - maybe a horse breeder wished for the supreme horse, and got a little more than he bargained for.