Feruchemical overcharging?

[Sevi]

I've been wondering about something in Feruchemy lately.

It's been said that a metalmind has limited capacity of holding a Feruchemical charge. It's simple to imagine, after storing, let's say, 100 kg of your weight, this certain piece of metal would refuse to gain any more of the charge.

But what would happen, if a man was to store a very large amount of said weight into a big metalmind, let's say, one thousand kg, grab a small piece of metal (let's say, with a 100 kg capacity), touch both metalminds in the same time, and then both tap the whole weight from the bigger metalmind at once and try to "force" all of the charge into the smaller one?

It could just stop at the 100 kg cap and leave the rest of the weight to the Feruchemist, but... I have a feeling that the bigger the Feruchemical charge is, the more Investiture it bears, and therefore it would have more force when charging into a piece of metal.

Or maybe it would even cause some physical changes in the metal, with that sort of power? If a Feruchemist was to force a ridicously massive charge into a small piece of metal, it could have some interesting side effects.

I know it's a very vague theory, and I don't have much proof behind this, but hey, a food for thought.

[Shardlet]

I would liken it more to a liquid than a gas.  With a gas, say filling a cylinder with a check valve to prevent escape of the filled gas:  If a person tries to fill the cylinder by blowing into it, then they would only be able to force X amount at Y pressure into the cylinder.  But that would be tied to the person but not the cylinder.  The cylinder could hold much more of the gas if the gas was introduced into the cylinder at a higher pressure.  In contrast, with a liquid, the vessel has a fixed volume and liquids cannot be effectively compressed (yes, with most liquids exceedingly high pressures can result in a liquid to solid phase change which is accompanied by a reduction in volume, but that is besides the point for the analogy).  Thus, regardless of the pressure applied only an amount of liquid equal to the volume of the vessel can occupy the space of the vessel.  In this system the vessel volume is the limiting factor.  

 

If I recall, the info we have on it says that a metalmind can only hold so much charge not a feruchemist can only put so much charge into a metalmind.  I.e., the metalmind volume is the limiting factor not the feruchemist.  This is why I favor the liquid model. 

[Oudeis]

An interesting thought... I agree with Shardlet, I don't think it would work that way, but it remains intriguing to contemplate...

[Sevi]

That's a reasonable argument
Though in physical world, applying an enormous (and i mean enormous) amount of pressure while trying to fill the container would eventually break the container itself - all it takes is to have enough pressure. And the pressure we can get here is only limited by the net amount of the charge the Feruchemist is able to gather in the said bigger metalmind. So what would happen, if the container was to "crash", in the terms of investiture capacity?

[Oudeis]

Well, not exactly. If I've got a stationary bike attached to a pump, that's like saying the only limit to how much pressure I can apply is how much water I've got to pump. There's still only so fast I can pedal. Others might be able to pedal faster than I, maybe there are those who pedal less fast, but at the end of the day we all have limits.

 

And keep in mind, a valve isn't immortal. If you tried to force that much weight from one ironmind to another, are you certain the smaller ironmind would break before the feruchemist did?

Edited December 10, 2013 by Darnam

[Sevi]

I don't think he would. There is Compounding after all, doing that makes you already "overpressured" with Investiture, would that be any different than doing this?

[Shardlet]

Or it may by like trying to add more data to a disk that is full.  The disk doesn't break, the computer doesn't break, it just doesn't work. 

 

As to the compounding, you are using that investiture.  Not trying to hold it in, as it were.  So, I think 'overpressured' is not the most apt description of compounding.

Edited December 10, 2013 by Shardlet

[Sevi]

Or it may by like trying to add more data to a disk that is full.  The disk doesn't break, the computer doesn't break, it just doesn't work. 

The information can't differ in power though. And the data travels through the bus with constant speed. If you tried to press the whole data you have (through some weird medium) to the disk at once, you'd get an errorstorm. And if that was your motherdisk, you'd possibly have to force a format afterwards

[Scriptorian]

I've been wondering about something in Feruchemy lately. It's been said that a metalmind has limited capacity of holding a Feruchemical charge. It's simple to imagine, after storing, let's say, 100 kg of your weight...

Science Fun Fact!!! Kilograms are a unit of mass, not weight. An object's weight is the product of its mass times the gravitational acceleration of the planet. So a person of 50 kg would weigh more on Earth than Roshar (since Roshar has only .7 Earth's gravity), but still have the same mass. The unit you're probably looking for is Newtons. If Feruchemy stored physical mass, there would be problems (unless you want to get into my theory of inertial mass...) . Sorry for the nit-pick, but this is what taking college-level physics in high school did to me  .

[Sevi]

Yeah, I'm aware of that, but come on... It's easier to say that the metalmind stores kilograms of weight, than the mass density or a gravitational force value...

[Mikanium]

Would be an interesting concept.. Perhapse this is close to the Hemalurgic effect of Duralumin?

[dj26792]

I'm pretty sure Feruchemical iron stores mass.

 

WOB

 

This does in fact mean that the coppermind is incorrect because I looked there first and almost gave up.

[cem]

I'm pretty sure Feruchemical iron stores mass.

 

WOB

 

This does in fact mean that the coppermind is incorrect because I looked there first and almost gave up.

Apparently the Feruchemy article was outdated, Iron's separate article had the correct info. I fixed Feruchemy too. Thanks for finding this.

 

By the way, it would be appreciated if you and everyone else would correct the mistakes or at least inform somebody else on the article's discussion page of them or put a {{disputed}} next to them when you think find inaccurate information on the Coppermind.