Sevi

source: http://www.theoryland.com/intvsresults.php?kwt='savantism' I think we should take this in consideration here.

Wow, that's a very good approach. I've seen it being suggested somewhere that the Scadrian equivalent of gemstones would be Hemalurgic spikes - and that seems even more well-coined. You people never stop surprising me in the most pleasant way. I'll have some of my own thoughts when I finish browsing through the whole topic EDIT: @up, I think it would, given that WoB on hemalurgy is "it's cosmere universal". The RAFO though could be a hint of this actually going to happen, which is nice. IMHO a good twist would be for forgein metals to steal the attributes connected to the metal's homeworld - like i.e. Roshar's steel stealing a Shardblade instead of physical allomancy. Is there a theory on that already?

That's just the way I think of it until a better explaination is given, not a real theory. I believe that in a world where Honor is one of the Shards ruling, your personality would make you Invested more or less. While it doesn't seem to apply to other Shardworlds, I think it does to Roshar, as there is much more interaction between Shards and humanity than in other books. People feel the Thrill during the fight (of course we can't be sure whether it's a form of Investiture or not, but I think it could be, to some extend), the spren are being attracted to people's personalities and feelings, a special case being Honorspren attracted to people's overall personality and traits, dying men are given insight to other realms, et cetera, et cetera. So it kind of seems to me that such explaination is as good as any. I connect the fact of Rock being able to see Syl to his loathing of fighting. Syl is a Honorspren, and Rock is the second bridgeman after Kaladin to be called honorable (IMHO), as he sticks to his refusal of hurting another human, even though he could just give it up (to not risk the possibility of displeasing other bridgemen). That makes me wonder why Sigzil don't seem to see Syl, so it can also be strongly flawed. We also haven't been given any proof that either Adolin or Dalinar can't see her, i guess my idea strongly depends on this. But as I say, it's as good as any. I just like to explain things to myself while reading. I don't mean to be confusing anyone here. On the other hand, I am convinced that burning tin attunes you to Preservation and Preservation only. Sprensight and mist-sight aren't the same thing, of that I'm deeply convinced.

I'm no expert on Stormlight Archive (haven't finished reading WoK yet, a few pages await), but isn't it the Investiture that allows you to see spren? If so, burning any metal would enable you to see spren to some extend. And about Allomantic tin in particular, I don't think it would make any dfference. The mist-sight is bound exclusively to the bond between the Tineye and Preservation - burning it is not getting you attuned to any Shard, it attunes you to Preservation only, as far as I understand. Tin savants are weird, though, don't know what to think of it. I don't know if it has been discussed, but I like to think that they gain some limited possibility of seeing Investiture, it would kinda match the fact they get their heightened senses from it.

Yeah, I'm aware of that, but come on... It's easier to say that the metalmind stores kilograms of weight, than the mass density or a gravitational force value...

The super-metalmind idea isn't mine, I've stolen it from the forums

The information can't differ in power though. And the data travels through the bus with constant speed. If you tried to press the whole data you have (through some weird medium) to the disk at once, you'd get an errorstorm. And if that was your motherdisk, you'd possibly have to force a format afterwards

I don't think he would. There is Compounding after all, doing that makes you already "overpressured" with Investiture, would that be any different than doing this?

Sorry for the manner, didn't mean to be like this. I'm not speaking natively, I have a bit of problem about seeing how what I write will sound to others. I apologize for sounding the wrong way - I didn't mean to be arrogant. You people have more knowledge on the topic than I do And argh, you kinda got me about what I said about Shards. I didn't realize Devotion was dead at the time. What I had on mind was that Sazed was kind of the only one who is not bound by an Intend, as he keeps his intervention in reason. Like, he is not "obliged" to do anything like other Shards, but keeps his wit and remains a free willed, aware human being. And thank you on correcting me on a few of those things, I blamed Preservation's lack of initiative more on a "non-intervention" policy tied to his Intend than on what it really was. Guess i got carried away in theories. As for the latter, I tend to think of Sazedium as, well, Sazedium - being more of Harmony than of Preservation and Ruin. I mean, if Harmony keeps the two Shards at bay, would they still fight within someone burning the Atium/Lerasium alloy? And from what I remember, burning two metals at the same time is not the same as burning an alloy of both. I guess burning both at the same time would work as you said, but burning the alloy of both would give you the Harmony-related effect. Though, you might be just right - the two could just, kinda, refuse to be alloyed with each other. Or, maybe, refuse to be alloyed before Harmony's Ascension, and would be able to be combined with each as Harmonium after it. It sounds nice, symbolizing the fight between Shards and the end Harmony put to it. Not sure if we have any WoB on this, so I might be wrong about this tho.

That's a reasonable argument Though in physical world, applying an enormous (and i mean enormous) amount of pressure while trying to fill the container would eventually break the container itself - all it takes is to have enough pressure. And the pressure we can get here is only limited by the net amount of the charge the Feruchemist is able to gather in the said bigger metalmind. So what would happen, if the container was to "crash", in the terms of investiture capacity?

I'm pretty sure he would make a few of his friends' faces prettier, if they wished for it. He made Spook mistborn, though it was hardly a necessity - it came in handy in estabilishing the government, but I guess it was more of a "hey kid, you did good, you deserve a little gift". Another thing I've been wondering - what if said Allomantic bronze allowed them to track the Lerasium bead Hoid is carrying around, but that is a worse theory than the main one - wouldn't explain why they got lost on Roshar. There was a "false trail" though. Perhaps he sent the Lerasium somewhere.

I've been wondering about something in Feruchemy lately. It's been said that a metalmind has limited capacity of holding a Feruchemical charge. It's simple to imagine, after storing, let's say, 100 kg of your weight, this certain piece of metal would refuse to gain any more of the charge. But what would happen, if a man was to store a very large amount of said weight into a big metalmind, let's say, one thousand kg, grab a small piece of metal (let's say, with a 100 kg capacity), touch both metalminds in the same time, and then both tap the whole weight from the bigger metalmind at once and try to "force" all of the charge into the smaller one? It could just stop at the 100 kg cap and leave the rest of the weight to the Feruchemist, but... I have a feeling that the bigger the Feruchemical charge is, the more Investiture it bears, and therefore it would have more force when charging into a piece of metal. Or maybe it would even cause some physical changes in the metal, with that sort of power? If a Feruchemist was to force a ridicously massive charge into a small piece of metal, it could have some interesting side effects. I know it's a very vague theory, and I don't have much proof behind this, but hey, a food for thought.

WoB here is strongly unbalanced, as Brandon strongly suggests that Sazed is holding two different Shards, but he still prefers to think of them "as one". But I do remember a few of his quotes where he allows to think of Sazed as having more sentinence than a regular Shard holder. Remember what every other Shard manifests when they communicate with humanity... Ruin was capable of speaking, but absolutely blinded with his Intent - "arr, you will all die from my hand". Preservation's trials of communication were very vague and "shy", as every change he would cause would be against his Intent, so he was kind of like an introvertic kid. The Elantris shard (can't call the name from memory) was only vaguely able to communicate with Raoden, if it ever did, in the pool of water being it's own body. I can be wrong on this though, don't have the book right now. Honor was able to communicate with Delinar clearly, but his Intent was clearly behind this, with Dalinar being one of the most honorable people to speak to, and the fact of communication itself guided by Honor's As for Odium, I guess he is as human as Harmony, but for a completely different reason. Harmony was able to keep his freedom because of the both Intends from Ruin and Preservation nullifying each other. Odium was able to keep sentinence, because he already was a loathful man - let's say that his "human Intend" matched the Intend of the Shard perfectly. So far, we've only seen Harmony being able to speak to humans as clearly and cleverly as he did. So I guess it's safe to assume that he's not blinded by any Intent - he's as witty and smart as he always was. I don't understand your reasoning, could you extend this statement? Because for now, I'm dazed. So Preservation's power is creating (investiture gain), while Harmony's power would preserve (investiture nullifying)?

I think the scar wouldn't be fixed if Demoux didn't wish for it to be. And knowing him, I doubt he would ever want a battle-earned scar he got as a proof of his honor and devotion to ever disappear. Come on, this dude is like a war martyr, except he is still alive and well. If he was to lose both arms fighting for Elend's sake, he wouldn't ever blink. (He would want them back, though, it's kind of hard to serve when the arms are gone.)

I don't think this is right. Harmonium would cause the net amount of investiture to be negative? It's both Preservation and Harmony - making something stable and unchanging would be of Preservation only. My strong bet on Harmonium would be some power of creation. For the sake of the question, I'd like to analize what we know about Harmony for sure. First of all, Harmony is the most powerful of Shards, or at least equally powerful to Odium. Not only he actually holds two shards, because that doesn't neccesairly give him more actual power, which is understandable to those familiar with Shardic theory (talking about the global scale, not Cosmeric scale). He is powerful because of his sentinence - as the only Shard known to us he's not blinded by any intent. He is unique among other Shards because of the sentinent mind behind the power he wields. That would make me believe that his metal is different from the others. It's power would not be raw, I think, it would be much more sophisticated. Second thing is that Harmony is, in fact, a scientist. As a Shard, I guess his power would be focused more on development, open-mindedness and understanding. So I think of Harmonium as being able to give one knowledge, perhaps. Or some greater mindfulness. Something along the lines of an insta-Zen metal. And for Harmonium being a metalmind, I'm pretty convinced it would act as an universal metalmind of increased capacity. Here, have this bead, you can store anything you want in here. Perhaps, it would even act as a shared metalmind, allowing every Feruchemist to store inside.

So, the theory is something that sparked my mind while making theories on Atium alloys in Mistborn section. It's actually a theory made on a theory, but I think it could sparkle some interest (if it haven't been already suggested or solved ). Theory: Atium/Bronze alloy can track Worldhopping. Reasoning: 1. What we know about Atium is that, when alloyed, it gives a temporal effect on the top of the original metal's effect. 2. Bronze allows one to hear not only Allomancy, but other sources of Investiture as well - as it could track down the Well of Ascension and the Mist Spirit. 3. Assuming that Bronze + Atium would give one enchanced, temporal effect of tracking Investiture, it seems possible for a man burning it to hear/sense the act of tearing timespace. 4. It would, therefore, allow one to sense Worldhopping, should any occur. Theory 2: 17th Shard uses Atium/Bronze alloy to track Hoid. Reasoning: 1. We can eaisly assume that one of 17th Shard members is an Allomancer (Demoux). 2. It would be natural for organization such as this one that every member has a set of powers used to accomplish their goal, therefore - at least one of them would be assigned with tracking down Hoid. 3. When 17th Sharders appear on Roshar, they seem to be completely lost, as if they were able to tell exactly in which world Hoid appeared, but unable to find him once they get there. 4. ...just like they were able to determine the direction of Worldhopping, but lost track of him as he didn't repeat the act. So, here it is, my first real theory on the forums. Hope you have some time with this one.

Okay, back with more after some sketching and digging... Idea #5 - Aluminum - deletes one's Allomantic reserves - Chromium - wipes another person's reserves of metals - Atium w/ Aluminum - makes oneself unable to use Allomancy - Atium w/ Chromium - makes an other person unable to use Allomancy So what's the reasoning behind this? Again, it's the basic metal's power with a temporal effect added to it. The idea also comes from the fact that aluminum has basically just one use - to weaken a captive Allomancer. And since the natural guess is that adding a god metal on the top of some else metal would make it much stronger, here we are - a metal that serves no other purpose than weakening the Allomancer, like, completely. And since yeah, it does feel a bit overpowered, I think it could just block someone's allomancy for a period of time, not forever. Idea #6 Okay, this one will contradict the previous idea a little bit, but I honestly don't believe that anything that has to do with Atium (and by extend, Ruin) would ever be able to increase one's innate Allomantic power, so I've thought of an other use for the two other enchantment metals... - Duralumin - Increases your burn of the next metal - Nicrosil - Increases someone's burn of the next metal - Atium w/ Duralumin - Appends a temporal effect on the next burned metal - Atium w/ Nicrosil - Appends a temporal effect on the next burned metal of someone else So, this would in fact just change the next burned metal into it's Atium alloy. Seems fair to me. Idea #7 - Zinc - Riots emotions - Brass - Nullifies emotions - Atium w/ Zinc - Enchants luck - Atium w/ Brass - Reduces luck Now, this is something I've been struggling with for a long time now. I've also been thinking about making these alloys enchant and decrease one's memory, but it just kinda didn't fit along God powers, even though it does have a bit of temporal touch to it. I guess it would just work like Chromium Feruchemy. But then, I'm not convinced whether an Atium alloy Allomancy should have the same effect as a normal metal Feruchemy. I think that what makes a great difference here is the fact that the luck in this Allomancy would actually be net positive, but well, that's what Chromium Compounding would do as well, so it's not the strongest idea I've had.

Actually, the "temporal only" info I've found was from an interview with Brandon. I forgot about the mental part from, i believe, Ars Arcanum? I love the idea of "basic metal + temporal effect" alloys, but what you wrote makes just as much, if not more sense.

Yeah, that would solve the problem. One idea I've had after some thinking would be that Atium would add a temporal effect to what the alloyed metals are doing already. For example: Idea #1 - Iron - Pulling on metals - Steel - Pushing on metals - Atium w/ Iron - Pulling on objects through time - Atium w/ Steel - Pushing on objects through time I don't mean it in a "time travel" kinda way. More like insta-aging of a material, like making it decay and rust or getting it back to it's previous state. Idea #2 - Atium w/ Iron - Pushing time on an object, making it flow faster - Atium w/ Steel - Pulling time on an object, making it flow slower. So what's the difference between this and the previous idea, or this and bendalloy/cadmium? Well, it would be not creating a time-sphere that alternates the time speed, and it wouldn't determine the direction in which time is flowing. The subjective effect would be similiar to that of a time sphere, it would affect only the given object, move along with it and would not be visible as the spheres are. Example 1: Let's say you are to shoot a cannonball, but need some more power to it. So, get the cannon ready, fire, and Ation Push on the time around it so it doesn't fly further, but it does fly faster, doing some nice mayhem where needed. It's like shooting a feruchemist tappin' on them steels and irons. Example 2: You are a thief. The break-in didn't go as smoothly as planned; the guards are getting closer to the door, and you don't have much time to find a way out. But hey, a quick Atieel Pull on the door's time, and it suddenly becomes an impenetrable wall - no matter how strong they kick it, it will not move any faster, opening a few times slower than it would normally. The few spare seconds you just got just saved your live. Okay, so that's what I've got for Iron and Steel. But what about the other metals? Let's try with tin. - Tin - makes your senses stronger So... Idea #3 - Atium w/ Tin - Improves your awarness of time. Why is that? It seems like a very natural thing to me, a temporal extend of tin that would enchance something that already is, in fact, a sense - but is not affected by tin itself. How would it work? For example, if you were trapped in a prison, buring the Atitin (okay, okay...) slowly will make you perfectly aware of exactly how many years, months, weeks, days, seconds have passed. You would be also aware of the time outside, whether it's day or night, winter or summer. Doesn't seem like a great power to wield, not amazing enough for a god alloy? Well then, imagine that you have perfect knowledge of the timespan of every action you could take on a battlefield. As an archer, you would know exactly how fast that guy over there is running, how long will your arrow fly, where should you aim, exactly, to hit him in the middle of his run. It would, in fact, give you the final effect that Atium has, though only on things that are within your sight. Okay, done for now, though I will be back with some more ideas, should I have any EDIT: Though, I've got another one for now: Idea #4 - Copper - Hides allomantic pulses - Bronze - Hears allomantic pulses - Copper w/ Atium - Makes your past and future unreadable to Atium / Malatium / Electrum / etc. - Bronze w/ Atium - Enables you to detect any anomalies in the timeflow, including Worldhopping. This is, I believe, pretty much self-explainatory - again, I try to add a temporal component to the metals lacking it. Copper is the one that I like the most - it just feels right to me. Good, old, passively working copper with a godlike Atium twist to it. The idea itself makes it a whole lot more dangerous than it seems. Say, we got person A burning Atiopper and person B burning atium, person C burning atium, and a guy who's just standing there with a sword. Now, if these people were to fight, from the B's point of view: - For the not-burning man, you would win the fight rather simply, as you see the atium shadows of his moves. - C would be matched to you - a thousand atium shadows around him, a fair fight with no edge. - A would be the deadliest - as you do burn atium at the moment, but this guy has no shadows at all. He actually does have an edge over you, as you don't see him in the fight. He can just stab you and farewell. As for Atium/Bronze alloy, the only reason I've got this idea is because Vin was able to hear the Well of Ascension, even though the well was not an allomancer, obviously. This alloy would take this fact even further, and as the normal bronze could make a man hear the Investiture of Well, this one would let the one detect Investiture-based anomalies of the timespace. What would it detect? - A Feruchemist tapping/loading speed, - A Cadmium/Bendalloy bubble, - Any of the external effects of the beforementioned alloys, - Worldhopping. (!) Yeah, I know the last one seems like a stretch. Just seems too perfect of a plot device. Would also make a nice explaination as to how to look for Hoid. It seems a better idea even, when you think of it this way: Sidetrack theory: Let's say that an Atium alloy lets you detect where and when does Hoid worldhop. The knowledge of - and possibility to use - such device would be an obvious reason as to the role of Demoux in the 17th Shard. It would suggest, though, that even if Hoid could be located when he Hops, he would have to be searched for manually at the destination of the Hop. And that is what I think happens in The Way of Kings at Purelake. Think about it, three men knowing exactly on which planet the man is, but totally unable to track him afterwards. That seems like it has some sense to it, let me know what you think

Nicrosil compound savant. Oh, dear, need to get WoB on that.

That's not quite the same, I believe. If I'm not wrong, the power from the Well was Intent-less, while Allomancy is based more off Preservation's Intent than power. Correct me if I'm wrong, that's how I understand these events. But still, I've got no idea about how the alloys would work, other than finding atium alloys being temporal is WoB. So no temperature fun there. Only time.

I intend to get the book pretty soon. Did not have a chance to play it though - I couldn't find much people around who'd both be interested in role playing and know of Mistborn. I might just force some of my players to get to it though.

Now this is an interesting thread. Before making my own theories, I'd first say that I don't find much logic as to why the alloys you mentioned would work the way you mentioned. Atium alloys affecting temperature? Why? Also the thought of enchantment-alloys being able to - for example - create Savants is not very logical to me - Atium is of Ruin, and therefore it wouldn't make one's Allomancy stronger, because the whole idea of Allomancy belongs to Preservation. It IS a strong allomantic metal, but in it's own, twisted way, making people "perfect killing machines" - it is working, but it's working against Preservation. But I guess that being a savant destroys a man in a way, so that would not seem so off as I'd have thought first. Now, a few facts I'd like to establish to clear the mind: 1. God metals are not limited to one alloy at a time. (pretty obvious, hence this topic) 2. Lerasium itself makes a man a Mistborn. 2a. It's ultimate in it's own field (Preservation's metal in Preservation's investiture) 2b. Lerasium alloys make a Misting of the given metal. 2c. Lerasium Hemalurgic effect is unknown :< Would help so much here :< 3. The way that Atium is working in Allomancy is weird; it's working within Preservation's domain, yet it gives an effect opposed completely to Preservation's ways - by making them efficient killing machines. 3b. This does not stretch to Atium's alloys - malatium does not force killing. This being written, I think i will spend some time now on guessing the alloys. Going to be back after some digging.

Hi there, I've been following the community behind Brandon's work closely for a few years now, though I never did register before, since I've been not up to date with his work, which gave me a kind of unfavorable position to make theories, but now seems like a good time I'm a 17 years old kid from Poland, and so I've been relying mostly on translations - by the time Elantris got to my hands, the Final Empire was already out in the US. I've got to say that Brandon had somewhat had a hand in my learning of English, since i finally got to import the Hero of Ages because of the infinite delays of the translation. And now I've done the same with The Way of Kings - honestly wouldn't count on THAT coming out in Polish for another year or so. I've got to say, Brandon's work got me hooked up ever since Elantris - rarely an author would get this good at making his misteries reveal in single "OMFGWTF, my brain is bleeding" moments. But hey, I guess we all know what is that makes his wrtiting so good, for we're all at this page now About other stuff, well, I'm also commited to writing, but since I've got to get past school and work for living, I'm unlike to get a deal off it before 2015. Other than that, I enjoy music producing, I've got some years of experience of mastering tabletop RPGs and adventure games (four years leading Vampire: The Masquerade), I also have a world of mine in production. So there it is, and as far as I don't like writing about myself, it seems like the thing to do in such a great community. Especially in the "introduce yourself" threat