baby he/him Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 I don't know maybe something like Discord or Chaos? Cause it's too bland to be a single shard, and I can see at least one other double shardholder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamEternal Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) I don't know maybe something like Discord or Chaos? Cause it's too bland to be a single shard, and I can see at least one other double shardholder.Odium+Autonomy+Endowment=Chaos?EDIT: but Harmony is not the intent/mandate of Sazed's double shard. It is just a fancy God-name he took for himself for being the merging of two fundamentaly opposed primal forces. Edited December 7, 2015 by CognitivePulsePattern Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormgate he/him Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 I've thought that Devotion and Dominion combined might make Leadership or some such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oversleep Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 I've thought that Devotion and Dominion combined might make Leadership or some such. Devotion and Dominion, huh? Shard of BDSM (I think I saw it somewhere on the 17thShard, I'm not sure) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackhoof Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 Love seems like it would be the logical opposite to hate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormgate he/him Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 Love seems like it would be the logical opposite to hate. Devotion is encouraging, supporting, lifting people up. Dominion is about suppressing people, forcing them down. Love is not the opposite of hate, in one part of TFE, they address something like that, basically saying that betrayal or hatred towards someone while loving them hurts more than if you didn't. That might not make sense, but love and hate aren't opposites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oversleep Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 I think we should back away from finding direct opposites and instead focus on finding groupings - like quadrants in Allomancy.I saw someone naming these groups, like "natural forces" (Preservation, Ruin, I guess Cultivation) and "higher concepts" like Odium, Honor, Devotion.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata he/him Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 A Shard may be paired with multiple Shards depending of how you see it. For example Preservation is quite opposite to Cultivation (a passive and static force and a dinamic force that improve) and Cultivation is quite opposite to Ruin (again a improvement force and a demolishing force). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oversleep Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 (edited) A Shard may be paired with multiple Shards depending of how you see it. For example Preservation is quite opposite to Cultivation (a passive and static force and a dinamic force that improve) and Cultivation is quite opposite to Ruin (again a improvement force and a demolishing force). Yeah, just like Pushing/Pulling metals in Allomancy - they're similar yet different. Improvement/ Destruction Static Preservation ...IDK (Regress? Things stay unchanged, but it's bad) Dynamic Cultivation Ruin For lack of a better word, I dubbed it "Improvement/Destruction", but it doesn't fit good enough, I think. Edited December 11, 2015 by Oversleep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamEternal Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 (edited) Dominion is about suppressing people, forcing them down. You know, dominion does not mean exactly that... It can mean soreveingty, mastery, control, order, rulership. To control something is not a bad thing, that depends only on how you use that control. Dominion and Devotion are not opposites, and while one may be "darker"(but not much, since irrational fanaticism is devotion) they seem to be able to go together most of the time. Also, if you didn't notice I do want for the Dor to be reunited into a single "Unity" double shard. Edited December 11, 2015 by CognitivePulsePattern Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata he/him Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 Also, if you didn't notice I do want for the Dor to be reunited into a single "Unity" double shard. I like this one XD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormgate he/him Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 I'm simply saying that Devotion and Dominion are opposites, not quite like Preservation and Ruin, but similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamEternal Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 I'm simply saying that Devotion and Dominion are opposites, not quite like Preservation and Ruin, but similar. But they aren't opposites. Why would they be? You can control or be controlled by something you are devoted to, or seek to control others because of your devotion towards something, or attain soreveignity or mastery throught devoted effort. Why are they opposites then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oversleep Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 (edited) I'd go for Dominion - Autonomy pair, as far as we are talking about opposites. Edited December 11, 2015 by Oversleep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melriken Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 ...IDK (Regress? Things stay unchanged, but it's bad)The word you are looking for is Stagnation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oversleep Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 The word you are looking for is Stagnation. Thanks! Those in italics are my ideas. Improvement/ Destruction Static Preservation Stagnation Dynamic Cultivation Ruin No idea for classification here: Devotion Odium Honor Contempt And those pairs are not necessarily connected: Dominion - Autonomy Endowment - Avarice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamEternal Posted December 12, 2015 Report Share Posted December 12, 2015 Thanks! Those in italics are my ideas. Improvement/ Destruction Static Preservation Stagnation Dynamic Cultivation Ruin No idea for classification here: Devotion Odium Honor Contempt And those pairs are not necessarily connected: Dominion - Autonomy Endowment - Avarice Stagnation is part of Preservation actualy. The Final Empire is pretty much a demonstration of the worst side of the intent. Thankfully Leras found a very complicated way to go against the shard's intent and not only destroy Ruin, but build a more prosperous world. Also, contempt is way to close to Odium. I'd say that if Honor's intent/mandate is actualy something closer to binding or pacts, them Endowment could be its partial opposite, by seeking to make things divide themselves, but not completely, for those dividing themselves are adding to others. Although I myself think Honor's true mandate is simetry in all its forms. In its social aspect, that could translate into justice and the golden rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormgate he/him Posted December 12, 2015 Report Share Posted December 12, 2015 I think Autonomy-Endowment are a pair. Autonomy is all about fending for yourself, doing it by yourself. Endowment is all about giving and getting support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oversleep Posted December 12, 2015 Report Share Posted December 12, 2015 (edited) I think Autonomy-Endowment are a pair. Autonomy is all about fending for yourself, doing it by yourself. Endowment is all about giving and getting support. On the other hand, Dominion is about controlling and having power over someone, while Autonomy is about freedom and being independent. Okay, how about quadrant like this?: Endowment Avarice Autonomy Dominion They may not be as neatly connected as I did with Preservation, Ruin, Endowment and Stagnation, but bear with me. Endowment is about giving to somebody, gifting. Avarice would be about taking from somebody, maybe stealing (but Theft doesn't work as Shard's Intent. Maybe Jealousy or Greed or Envy) Autonomy is about being indepedent, not needing anything from anybody, doing by yourself. Dominion is about controlling, having power over something, making them depend on you. Edited December 12, 2015 by Oversleep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khyrindor he/him Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 (edited) Isn't it confirmed that Ruin and Preservation are opposites? CHAOSAre Shards all paired? Does Endowment have a counterpart?BRANDON SANDERSON RAFO. Also, yes and no. Not all Shards have perfect counterparts like Ruin and Preservation.QUESTIONWhy were Ruin and Preservation linked together?BRANDON SANDERSONBecause they're such perfect opposites. Basically it's just an opposites attract thing. Source. Scroll to #5 Edited December 15, 2015 by khyrindor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-max04 Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 I'm not so sure that there are so much opposites, as categories. One might say that cultivation and this secret "hiding/survival" shard are counterparts, because they are similar in many ways, trying to nurture and protect something, but cultivation wants to do so externally, and hiding/survival wants to do so internally. To put it another way, tin and pewter are counterparts, but they are very similar in most ways, except one is a pushing metal, while the other is a pulling metal. They aren't complete opposites. Devotion and dominion are two ways of trying to get people to act a certain way, but one is pulling them to do it, while the other is pushing them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormgate he/him Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 I'm not so sure that there are so much opposites, as categories. One might say that cultivation and this secret "hiding/survival" shard are counterparts, because they are similar in many ways, trying to nurture and protect something, but cultivation wants to do so externally, and hiding/survival wants to do so internally. To put it another way, tin and pewter are counterparts, but they are very similar in most ways, except one is a pushing metal, while the other is a pulling metal. They aren't complete opposites. Devotion and dominion are two ways of trying to get people to act a certain way, but one is pulling them to do it, while the other is pushing them. Finally! Someone who thinks Devotion and Dominion are opposites!!!...I've been alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emerald101 he/him Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 (edited) A Shard may be paired with multiple Shards depending of how you see it. For example Preservation is quite opposite to Cultivation (a passive and static force and a dinamic force that improve) and Cultivation is quite opposite to Ruin (again a improvement force and a demolishing force). Actually, WoB has it that ruin's intent is most aligned with culitivation. (Edited for focus on the point in question): Source Nepene I have a question, if you are willing. Would Ruin be more compatible with Rayse, would he pick up that shard had he visited Scadrial and shattered him? All the shards we have seen that he has shattered seem rather different in intent than him—Honor, Cultivation, Love, Dominion. But Ruin seems more in line with Odium. Rayse has ruined the days of quite a few people.Brandon SandersonTechnically, Ruin would be most compatible with Cultivation. Ruin's 'theme' so to speak is that all things must age and pass. Edited December 21, 2015 by Emerald101 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormgate he/him Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 So Cultivation's theme is that all things must change and progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata he/him Posted December 22, 2015 Report Share Posted December 22, 2015 Actually, WoB has it that ruin's intent is most aligned with culitivation. (Edited for focus on the point in question): Source It's what i want to say. You may take Shard's Intent with different criteria and you may obtain many possible "opposite". For example to me the relationship Ruin-Cultivation are quite similar to the relationship Devotion-Dominion. In both pairs the members aim to the same thing ( Change for Ruin&Cultivation and Cohesion for D&D) but use different methods to get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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