Jo and the Bush all/any Posted October 15, 2015 Author Posted October 15, 2015 It makes sense to me that Odium's opposite was Devotion. It would make sense for him to shatter Devotion since he/she was likely (to Odium anyway) the most dangerous simply because he/she was his opposite. And then Odium shattered Dominion as well since he was in the area. I actually think he shattered Dominion because Autonomy was helping him. We have a WoB that Odium is scared of Harmony becuase he's two shards, so he would probably try to het an ally before going up against two allied shards, and if Dominion is Autonomy's opposite, it would make sense to recruit him. Plus Hoid doesn't like Bavadin, so he's probably like Rayse.
DSC01 he/him Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 Guys, not to derail here, but shouldn't Odium's opposite be Love? Or something along those lines, anyway. We only know like half of the Shards right now, and it doesn't make sense to me to try to brainstorm ways to make Odium match up with a known Shard. I don't think we have a match for it yet. 1
DSC01 he/him Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 That's not my reading of what Devotion means, as a Shard. Really, even in the context of love, devotion is about dedication. While that can be a part of love, it is hardly an opposing match to pure hatred. Not all Shards require a direct balancing Shard like Ruin and Preservation, but Odium certainly does.
Jo and the Bush all/any Posted October 16, 2015 Author Posted October 16, 2015 Pretty sure Brandon confirmed Devotion is Love. I'll see if I can find the WoB.
DSC01 he/him Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 Ah, okay. Well, confirmed is confirmed, then. Still seems like something of a mismatch, but if not, I guess that says more about Odium than anything. More like disgust or revulsion than unbridled hatred, perhaps.
Jo and the Bush all/any Posted October 16, 2015 Author Posted October 16, 2015 Note I'm only pretty sure. I can't find the WoB, so I might be off my rocker. Does anyone know of the WoB i'm thinking of?
Moogle Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 Note I'm only pretty sure. I can't find the WoB, so I might be off my rocker. Does anyone know of the WoB i'm thinking of? Yes. Devotion used to be called Love, or so says the WoB I'm thinking of (much like Odium used to be called Hate, iirc). Just a note that the name changed, not that the current Shard is entirely about love. I can't find it; I think it's one of those annoying WoBs on the forums that aren't on Theoryland. And yes, Odium isn't just hate, it involves loathing/disgust. We even have a WoB mentioning the three definitions of odium in the dictionary apply to the Shard, though I can't find that WoB either. :/ 1
Khyrindor he/him Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 Keep in mind that they don't have to be exact matches. Brandon has said that most aren't linked as perfectly as Preservation and Ruin, and I believe that was stated above.
DSC01 he/him Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 Yeah, I'm thinking some don't really have a true opposite at all. I just thought something like Odium would need an pretty exact balance.
Yata he/him Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 Yeah, I'm thinking some don't really have a true opposite at all. I just thought something like Odium would need an pretty exact balance. Probably (or at least is what I Think) The Shards balanced the whole Adonalisium, not just a pair. But like big and strange-form part of a puzzle. Something like (it's just a stupid example) the main part of Odium is balanced by a big part of Devotion and a bit of Honor. The remain part is balanced by some of Endowment and the remain of Endowment is balanced by Autonomy ecc.....
natc Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 It's also probably not balanced quite like the way Harmony is. Since Adonalsium isn't stuck being forced to basically do nothing a lot.
Weltall Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 (edited) Something like (it's just a stupid example) the main part of Odium is balanced by a big part of Devotion and a bit of Honor. The remain part is balanced by some of Endowment and the remain of Endowment is balanced by Autonomy ecc.....Probably (or at least is what I Think) The Shards balanced the whole Adonalisium, not just a pair. But like big and strange-form part of a puzzle. I feel like we got a pretty good indication this is the case from the WoR Letter, for all of the Shards but most explicitly for Odium, where the writer calls it/Rayse 'God’s hatred separated from the virtues that gave it context'. So it's not just that Odium is separated from one other aspect but separated from all these other aspects of Adonalsium. Edited October 16, 2015 by Weltall
Jo and the Bush all/any Posted October 17, 2015 Author Posted October 17, 2015 You know, with this talk about opposites and multiple that could fit, why not quadrants? Someone before in this thread said Ideologies, Natural Forces, ect. It could be quadrants like on Scadrial. I've actually been playing around with a quadrant idea, but I'm not sure it's a complete parallel. The allomancy Quadrant was sorted by Internal/External and Push/Pull as well. The allomancy chart was very deliberately organized. 1
DSC01 he/him Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 It's also probably not balanced quite like the way Harmony is. Since Adonalsium isn't stuck being forced to basically do nothing a lot. I don't think that's quite how the Shards work. The Shards all balance each other--not just their direct opposites--and rather than make it impossible to act, they make it impossible for any single Shard to warp the will of the Holder. Even if all of the Shards were exact opposites, someone who held all 16 would be completely free to act according to their will, not balanced into inaction. 1
Ari he/him Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 Oh, didn't know that. I'm having a bit of trouble finding it, do you happen to know where he said it? I think it's in one of the signing reports? It's not on Theoryland yet unfortunately. It makes sense to me that Odium's opposite was Devotion. It would make sense for him to shatter Devotion since he/she was likely (to Odium anyway) the most dangerous simply because he/she was his opposite. And then Odium shattered Dominion as well since he was in the area. Whichever one he killed first, he shouldn't have been able to kill a second, forewarned shard on his own without dying himself. I find it much more likely that Odium had some assistance in some respect, but was ultimately responsible for killing both Aona and Skai, and Splintering their shards. Note I'm only pretty sure. I can't find the WoB, so I might be off my rocker. Does anyone know of the WoB i'm thinking of? Got it: ChaosSo Aona is a synonym for love, hmm? Is Charity the correct Shard name? Brandon Sanderson Not quite. I'm trying to remember what the guesses were for the other Shard on Sel. I may have dismissed them too quickly. CHAOSHow about Mercy for Aona, then? The guesses for Skai's Shard include Devotion, Obedience, and Order. BRANDON SANDERSONOkay, I was right, then. Ha There's something very ironic in all of this. Note that Chaos mentions Aona's Intent when trying to figure out Skai's, and Brandon has a good chuckle about it.
Stormgate he/him Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 It is possible. One of my questions i want to ask are whether the Shards can be placed into groupings, similarly to Allomancy with metalsI have an extremely similar question, does every shard correspond with a metal in Scadrial? Excepting atrium and latvium.With the opposites: Devotion is the process of gaining leadership through love, Dominion is the process of gaining leadership through fear. Honor is about subjecting people to all sorts of demanding circumstances, and the ones that stand like stone are the ones that survive. Cultivation is about strengthening those who are weak, protecting them, basically the difference between the standards for children and warriors. Doesn't it make sense that the opposite Shards would live on the same planet? That said, what is Odium's opposite? The wandering Shard versus the man who, every time we learn something new about him, raises more questions: Hoid.
Stormgate he/him Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 If someone wants to discuss Sel's Shards, you can find me on the Elantris spoiler board.
Ari he/him Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 (edited) I have an extremely similar question, does every shard correspond with a metal in Scadrial? Excepting atrium and latvium. With the opposites: Devotion is the process of gaining leadership through love, Dominion is the process of gaining leadership through fear. Honor is about subjecting people to all sorts of demanding circumstances, and the ones that stand like stone are the ones that survive. Cultivation is about strengthening those who are weak, protecting them, basically the difference between the standards for children and warriors. Doesn't it make sense that the opposite Shards would live on the same planet? That said, what is Odium's opposite? The wandering Shard versus the man who, every time we learn something new about him, raises more questions: Hoid. Odium's opposite is either Devotion or Honour, depending on how you interpret things. (Odium is an actual antonym of Honour) Probably the most straightforward way to interpret things is that Devotion is the closest to a neat opposite of Odium. edit: And no, it's probably easier to think of Atium and Lerasium as in a different grid of 16 base God metals, (of which Harmonium could be viewed as an alloy) with metals belonging to the other shards potentially filling out the rest. (In practice, we're unlikely to see any from Splintered shards like Aonium, Skazium, or Tanavastium) If someone wants to discuss Sel's Shards, you can find me on the Elantris spoiler board. Cosmere Theories is spoilers for everything except very recently released books. (As of right now, that would be SoS) You can feel free to discuss Sel's shards in any relevant topic here without spoiler warnings. Edited October 27, 2015 by Ari
OdiYum Posted November 3, 2015 Posted November 3, 2015 Why does it have to be a binary system of creating opposites? I recall that Odium shatters the shards and leaves the power behind because he wants to remain unchanged. So maybe some shards are not opposed by a single shard, but by some combination of the shards. The letter seems to state that each shard balanced out the others. I personally feel like Odium shattered Devotion and Honor for a specific reason. Odium and Devotion are two opposing emotions, that can often act appropriately in a great deal of situations. For example a lot of people can be in a Love/Hate relationship. Honor is essentially a system that dictates how and when one acts in certain situations. Therefore Honor (in this situation) would dictate when one uses the powers of Odium or Devotion. I also wonder if this means that if the shards were put together into two super-shards (assuming they are combined correctly so that they are diametrically oppossed), Harmony would then be able to pick them up and use his balanced nature as a bridge between both super-shards.
Khyrindor he/him Posted November 3, 2015 Posted November 3, 2015 I think if Honour and Odium merged they would be called Justice.
Jo and the Bush all/any Posted November 4, 2015 Author Posted November 4, 2015 I lean more towards retribution myself.
Lorilanda Posted December 6, 2015 Posted December 6, 2015 Maybe the opposite of honor is the survival shard. Honor could be doing what you think is right no matter what the cost, whereas the survival shard is willing to do whatever it has to in order to survive, no matter the cost. 1
Brgst13 Posted December 7, 2015 Posted December 7, 2015 What combination of shards would be Harmony's opposite? Harmony would be its own opposite. Since 2 polar opposites are joined to make Harmony, there would be no other combination that would be its exact opposite.
baby he/him Posted December 7, 2015 Posted December 7, 2015 I don't know maybe something like Discord or Chaos? Cause it's too bland to be a single shard, and I can see at least one other double shardholder.
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