Wayne's Understanding of People

[Argent he/him]

Here there be Shadows of Self spoilers.

 

So, Wayne's ability to understand people has been bothering me all book. The focus was mostly on the accents before, and that's something I could accept as an uncanny skill, but Shadows of Self made it look much bigger. Wayne doesn't simply adopt people's mannerisms, he starts thinking like them. Not in the a conman might, deciding what the other person would think like, but actually thinking the appropriate thoughts. I find this suspicious. 

 

You know it makes me think of? Spiritual identity or connection. Feruchemical aluminum or duralumin. How, I don't know. The only thing that makes sense to me is a spike - if it's a small aluminum spike Wax wouldn't have been able to randomly detect it, so it wouldn't come up in the text. 

 

Or he could be a slightly insane and very skilled conman. 

[king of nowhere]

he already had that thing of thinking the appropriate thoughts already in alloy of law.

 

it could be a spike, but i doubt it is because there is no hint of it whatsoever. i mean, wax's earring being a spike was hinted in several ways. vin's earring became fairly obvious once you were halfway through hero of ages. but there is no mention whatsoever that wayne may be spiked. i don't think that's the kind of thing that would set up a big reveal - I mean, there was no indication of lassie being a kandra, but that was because readers should absolutely not figure it out in advance; i can't see something similar done for a spike on wayne.

 

so, i'll just go with "insanely skilled".

 

After all, most heroes in fantasy books are insanely skilled at something. we don't get surprised at it. it's just what heroes are supposed to be.

 

P.S. with alll his understanding of people, I wonder why he hasn't figured out ranette.

[Bremen]

The Ars Arcanum writer theorized that twinborn are more than just their powers put together, and in fact have subtle powers not given by either allomancy or feruchemy singularly.

 

That could easily be what is going on with Wayne.

[FirstSelector]

I guessed this in reply to your other thread, but I'll repeat myself here.

 

I was struck by how well Wayne and MeLaan seemed to get along.  In particular, she seemed to understand his ideas about imitation, and the importance of accents and small things.  And we note that the kandra have superhuman (more correctly, inhuman) healing ability.  It's a bit harder to connect the actual temporal ability, but kandra are immortal and can manipulate their bodies at very high speed.

 

My claim is thus: the instinctual ability to imitate others comes from the overlap of these powers.

 

This is a very tenous connection, I know, but it seems that the Perk that Twinborn get would have to be subconscious or nearly so.  Wayne's mastery of this art at an almost subconscious level seems very similar to the Radiant Perks.

[fyodor]

I have to think that there's something more going on than Wayne being good at imitation. In pretty much all of BS's books whenever someone has a strange psychological quirk or an unusual ability (Vin's obsession with the Well, Kaladin's response to shardblades, Shallan's skill at drawing)  there's something larger going on. Wayne's inability to touch a gun or bullet has something to do with this too.

 

Bleeder mentions that Wayne has to be killed because he belongs to Harmony. Something to do with this?

[Argent he/him]

I thought about Wayne maybe getting his imitation skill as a Twinborn perk, but it just doesn't make sense to me. It seems so completely unrelated. If Wax's bullet deflection bubble is his Twinborn perk (as I theorized somewhere else, but should probably put in a separate thread), it could kind of work - both of his Metallic abilities deal with core principles of Newtonian motion, so I can see his perk being in the same general area. Wayne, though, he's got Feruchemical healing and Allomantic time acceleration. Totally different concepts. And not only are they different, but his proposed perk - imitation - is a whole different animal in itself. I can't buy into the argument that because kandra are good at healing and they are good at imitation, the same would apply to other people. Plus, if anything, Miles should've been an amazing imitator, and there's nothing to suggest that; on the contrary, he may have been imitating Suit subconsciously. 

 

Now, if kandra could interbreed with humans... How are we feeling about one of Wayne's ancestors scoring with a kandra?

[Moogle]

I agree... imitation doesn't seem like something Wayne gets as a perk. I would expect some sort of Allomantic zinc/Allomantic brass/Feruchemical duralumin combo to give that, not his powers.

[Landis963 he/him]

I thought it was just his skill as a method actor that drew MeLaan to him.

[FirstSelector]

Yeah, it's a bit of a shot in the dark.  However, here's some Words of Radiance spoilers:

 

However, if we think about the Perks in the Knights Radiant, there's no reason some combination of Gravitation and Division should have anything to do with supernatural sense of guilt, or that Illumination and Transformation have to do with Memory.  Granted, these Perks fit very well into the framework of the Knights, but they're otherwise far from obvious.

 

Basically, I'm not so sure that the Perk from a combination of powers has anything to do with the actual nature of the powers themselves.  And while I like the idea that Wax's steel bubble is his Perk, he could also just be a steel savant of great skill.

 

I could definitely buy the kandra ancestry connection, which would explain the comments as well as his knack at imitation.

[Moogle]

Yeah, it's a bit of a shot in the dark.  However, here's some Words of Radiance spoilers:

 

However, if we think about the Perks in the Knights Radiant, there's no reason some combination of Gravitation and Division should have anything to do with supernatural sense of guilt, or that Illumination and Transformation have to do with Memory.  Granted, these Perks fit very well into the framework of the Knights, but they're otherwise far from obvious.

 

Basically, I'm not so sure that the Perk from a combination of powers has anything to do with the actual nature of the powers themselves.  And while I like the idea that Wax's steel bubble is his Perk, he could also just be a steel savant of great skill.

 

I could definitely buy the kandra ancestry connection, which would explain the comments as well as his knack at imitation.

 

WoR spoilers:

The epigraphs specifically state that the Skybreakers' special talent there was not related to the spren/Surges:

 

The considerable abilities of the Skybreakers for making such amounted to an almost divine skill, for which no specific Surge or spren grants capacity, but however the order came to such an aptitude, the fact of it was real and acknowledged even by their rivals.

 

Our other examples sort of work Surge-wise if you squint:

 

Kaladin's squires: Gravity and Adhesion (in a spiritual sense - binding men together, having a 'gravity' bringing men to you)

Shallan's memories: Illumination (light she sees) and Transformation (turning it into a memory)

[king of nowhere]

In pretty much all of BS's books whenever someone has a strange psychological quirk or an unusual ability (Vin's obsession with the Well, Kaladin's response to shardblades, Shallan's skill at drawing)  there's something larger going on.

 

I would disagree with this. kaladin has depression, kelsier was borderline sociopath, vasher is rough with people, lightsong was good at juggling...

 

even in sanderson's books, most times people have strange quirks or unusual abilities, they are just part of them, what makes them people instead of just characters in a story. Otherwise, hiding secrets in those quirks would be nowhere near as effective.

 

Also, i wouldn't say wayne's skills are better than those of breeze or allrianne, if a little different. they are good at understanding people, he is good at imitating them.

[Argent he/him]

It's not Wayne's skill that made me suspicious, it's what happens inside his head. In a small way he stops being Wayne and becomes whoever he is impersonating. There is a time in The Alloy of Law when he is pretending to be an old lady, and - while in his viewpoint - we get to read about some kids nearby remind him - her - of her own grandchildren. That's not something people do when they pull a con. 

[DSC01 he/him]

I didn't take that as being him literally believing those thoughts. I just thought that it was part of his act--to actually think things about the character's motivations to himself so as to really sell the role. But you might be right about something more going on there.

[Argent he/him]

I didn't take that as being him literally believing those thoughts. I just thought that it was part of his act--to actually think things about the character's motivations to himself so as to really sell the role. But you might be right about something more going on there.

 

And you are right that it could be a part of the act. But that's not the impression I am getting. Hence, theorytime!

[Kurkistan he/him]

I thought it was just his skill as a method actor that drew MeLaan to him.

 

I also just see Wayne as a method actor. As does Brandon, unless he's next-leveling us.

[IAmTheBeard]

Yeah, Brandon has specifically said that he's not "becoming" the other person, even in his head. From Kurk's link, 

 

So, in a way, he’s a method actor. He reinforces who he is in his head, occasionally giving himself thoughts as the persona to remind himself to stay in character. He lets himself feel the emotions they do, and adopt their mannerisms. But it’s a coat he can take off or put back on. It’s not a psychosis. That was an important distinction for me to make as a writer.

He does, however, become more and more comfortable as he plays a role. One example of this is how Wayne still thinks of constables as being lazy partway through this, though he slowly loses his prejudice as he plays the role longer, shifting to thinking of them as “constables” instead of “conners” in the later part of the chapter.

 

And it's not supernatural; Wayne puts a lot of work into this. In AoL, it's mentioned that he used to take trips to Elendel to learn new accents, even when he was living in the roughs. And his conversation with MeLaan demonstrates his knowledge of grammar and accent. He is the one who knows what a perfect is, after all. 

[natc]

A slight indulgence probably in light of his having to keep his kleptomania in check ends up developing into such a high degree of skill in identity theft that even a kandra is impressed.

Gotta say, that must've taken a lot of practice.

[Argent he/him]

Oh, well. It was worth a shot.

[Kier he/him]

If healing from a gold metal mind works to heal a person to what they view themselves as, maybe it could be a "perk" of gold that allows him to imitate so well.

In Wor Kalidin can't heal his slave brand because of his cognitive view of himself. Maybe when Wayne slips into a roll fully he "heals" himself into thay person physically on some level.

This could also explain his obsession with HIS hat. He doesn't quite feel himself without it because quite literally he isnt.

Just throwing it out there.

Edit: oh, WoB basically say no to this, those weren't posted while I typed. Haha. Oh well.

Edited October 8, 2015 by Kier

[duladen he/him]

I thought about Wayne maybe getting his imitation skill as a Twinborn perk, but it just doesn't make sense to me. It seems so completely unrelated. If Wax's bullet deflection bubble is his Twinborn perk (as I theorized somewhere else, but should probably put in a separate thread)

Argent, could you link this post? My assumption was that Wax's steel bubble was a result of being a steel savant, and his Twinborn perk was the conservation of momentum we saw during the climactic chase scene.

Regardless, I agree that Wayne's immitation abilities don't seem related to his Allomantic and Feruchemical abilities. I am far more interested in the possibility of interbreeding. If there are human-koloss, why not human-kandra?

[Argent he/him]

Uh. I'll try to find it, I've been posting a lot lately.

 

EDIT: This one.

Edited October 8, 2015 by Argent

[TwelfthOfSnackTime he/him]

Argent, could you link this post? My assumption was that Wax's steel bubble was a result of being a steel savant, and his Twinborn perk was the conservation of momentum we saw during the climactic chase scene.

Regardless, I agree that Wayne's immitation abilities don't seem related to his Allomantic and Feruchemical abilities. I am far more interested in the possibility of interbreeding. If there are human-koloss, why not human-kandra?

 

 

I believe the reason that there are Human/Koloss is because Koloss were originally Human to begin with. Kandra start out as a blob of Jello. Although, Bleeder does mention that she is aware of Human beings cells. Perhaps she could imitate a human well enough to fool the 'real' human half of the reproductive system to achieve conception. On the other hand that might just create a normal human in that case.

[Argent he/him]

Eh, technically kandra were human too. When Rashek took the power of the Well, he turned all Feruchemists into mistwraiths, offering his buddies a kandra upgrade. 

[wickedpissah he/him]

Is there anything refuting Wayne secretly being a full feruchemist...maybe even not knowing it himself?

 

I've always felt like his acting ability could be explained through the feruchemical use of aluminum, which he now has access to copious amounts of.  He's got a thing for hats, too, which are somewhat commonly lined with aluminum to prevent being affected by emotional allomancy.  I mean, he could put an aluminum bullet casing inside of any hat and fill it with an identity.

 

And it's not just identity that Wayne is so proficient with.  At the end of AoL, Wax internally remarks how well Wayne establishes connection with the constables (Duralumin).  Wayne's always eating in SoS, potentially storing calories (bendalloy, which he rarely goes without).  He falls asleep at the drop of a hat (badumtish), potentially storing wakefulness (Bronze).  He "can't smell worth a heap of beans" (SoS, page 45 Kindle Edition), so he might be constantly storing smell, or other senses (tin).  And he's constantly talking about his lucky hat, which I think is lined with Chromium.  EDIT:  He also says he's usually "only suicidal in the morning".  This could be because he stores determination (Electrum).

 

I mean, I know it's a stretch, but Wayne does all these weird little things that add up to a potentially bigger picture.

Edited October 8, 2015 by wickedpissah

[WardenGiggles]

Didn't Harmony change the Koloss into humans though? They don't have spikes at all anymore, they're just big thuggish people right?

 

I believe the reason that there are Human/Koloss is because Koloss were originally Human to begin with. Kandra start out as a blob of Jello. Although, Bleeder does mention that she is aware of Human beings cells. Perhaps she could imitate a human well enough to fool the 'real' human half of the reproductive system to achieve conception. On the other hand that might just create a normal human in that case.

 

 

Also, Wayne has to be my favorite character in this book and maybe ever. I absolutely love Wayne.