sh3nahz Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 does odium have similar abilities as ruin to change the words written? after reading mistrborn i was thinking of the listener songs and the diagram written by Taravangian. Ruin had the ability to talk to mad people, preservation had the ability to talk to people and communicate through mist spirit and ruin could change written text that wasnt written in metal. i was thinking that odium could do similar things to Taravangian's ''brillant'' state and could change the text of the diagram every time they looked for it, helping guide the diagram group towards desolation. I was also thinking this is a way odium could of corrupted the listener songs causing them to become voidbringers. I presume the listeners exist between desolations in a innert form and only becoming voidbringers before a desolation. therefore odium corrupting their songs. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blightsong Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 All shards came from the same thing, Adonalsium, so I think it is safe to assume that they all have the same powers. Nothing we have seen has contradicted that conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jondesu Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 All shards came from the same thing, Adonalsium, so I think it is safe to assume that they all have the same powers. Nothing we have seen has contradicted that conclusion. Not exactly the same, since as mentioned we saw that Ruin was good at influencing minds but couldn't read them, where Preservation could read but not influence. I would presume that's linked to intent as well as the planetary magic system. Odium appears to be good at influencing those who are angry or hateful, understandably, though there may be more to it than that. In that way, it's possible that Cultivation (presumed to be behind or be the Nightwatcher) may actually have given Taravangian exactly what was needed: knowledge without emotion. That would mean the Diagram, in it's pure form, would be unavailable to Odium and couldn't be influenced. Of course, I came up with that on the spot, so poke all the holes you want. jW 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 We have a WoB directly on this question: Q: Since it seems you're still answering questions here (Wow! That's some serious dedication!), I thought I'd ask one myself. Are things that are written by scholars on Roshar suspect? In Mistborn, Ruin could change anything that was written down, so can Odium do the same? Are written words on Roshar: untrustworthy, trustworthy because that ability was somehow limited to Ruin, or trustworthy because Odium COULD do it but just won't because it's not his style/he doesn't consider it? A: Odium didn't have a hand in creating Roshar, and his essence doesn't permeate it in the same way as Ruin permeated Scadrial. This gave Ruin a great deal more power over things like this--except when he ran into metals, of course. Another difference is that Odium has a fully-living, fully-aware, and very powerful Shard opposing him. (Contrasted to one that was half-dead and going mad.) So yes, you can trust much of what was written. Odium can be subtle when he needs to be, but his primary avenue of attack has been along a different line than the one Ruin used. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 Ruin was quite Allmigthy on Scadrial. Also when he was free, he had Preservation to stop him. If he was "alone" he can do everything he want on Scadrial. Odium isn't so much Invested on Roshar, I really doubt he could "change" something directly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post natc Posted September 25, 2015 Popular Post Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 (edited) More or less, I now imagine Ruin and Preservation as two control systems simulating sandbox VR-Scadrial. They're hooked up to everything, but they grief each other nonstop due to programming. Odium is trying to hack into Honor and Cultivation's server (which Adonalsium just left lying around to be used years ago) over from Braize, but has to use roundabout methods to get things done because he's dealing with two Admin abusers. He finally managed to kill Honor's account with a surprise move, but Cultivation is still around and the NPCs are walking around with Honor's inventory drops. Edited September 25, 2015 by natc 22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchitect Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 More or less, I now imagine Ruin and Preservation as two control systems simulating sandbox VR-Scadrial. They're hooked up to everything, but they grief each other nonstop due to programming. Odium is trying to hack into Honor and Cultivation's server (which Adonalsium just left lying around to be used years ago) over from Braize, but has to use roundabout methods to get things done because he's dealing with two Admin abusers. He finally managed to kill Honor's account with a surprise move, but Cultivation is still around and the NPCs are walking around with Honor's inventory drops. This is how Neal Stephenson would have written the cosmere 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
War_Breaker Posted September 26, 2015 Report Share Posted September 26, 2015 As the WoB above states there are several reasons Odium doesn't/can't change text on Roshar. As for how he intervenes, we have the Thrill, futuresight and I seem to remember a WoB that said Shallans father was under heavy influence from Odium... Just thought, also the violet tint to Venlis eyes, heavy Odium influence? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamEternal Posted September 26, 2015 Report Share Posted September 26, 2015 As the WoB above states there are several reasons Odium doesn't/can't change text on Roshar. As for how he intervenes, we have the Thrill, futuresight and I seem to remember a WoB that said Shallans father was under heavy influence from Odium... Just thought, also the violet tint to Venlis eyes, heavy Odium influence? I don' think so. Odium is generaly associated with red, and in WoK one bridgeman had dark violet eyes and was a nice person. However, there are some similarities between how Elhokar looked at Dalinar on WoK and how Lin looked at Shallan. Hateful eyes with shadows inside that are temporaly warded of by the presence of a Radiant. Except, in Lin's case the shadows won, while Elhokar seems to be slowly getting better. Slowly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emerald101 Posted September 26, 2015 Report Share Posted September 26, 2015 More or less, I now imagine Ruin and Preservation as two control systems simulating sandbox VR-Scadrial. They're hooked up to everything, but they grief each other nonstop due to programming. Odium is trying to hack into Honor and Cultivation's server (which Adonalsium just left lying around to be used years ago) over from Braize, but has to use roundabout methods to get things done because he's dealing with two Admin abusers. He finally managed to kill Honor's account with a surprise move, but Cultivation is still around and the NPCs are walking around with Honor's inventory drops. This deserves to be sig'd. With your permission, I would gladly do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted September 27, 2015 Report Share Posted September 27, 2015 Meh. Do whatever you want 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Posted September 27, 2015 Report Share Posted September 27, 2015 We have a WoB directly on this question: Thanks for grabbing the WoB on that one Moogle, it came to mind instantly when I read the first post! It bears noting that there's a reason Brandon says that much of the written material on Roshar can be trusted. This isn't WoB that all written material is reliable. Some writings will be unreliable for reasons completely unrelated to Odium- historical innaccuracies, Vorin tampering and censorship, biased authors, or simple mistakes in scholarship or translation will lead to mistakes. I believe we already have word that for instance, the epigraphs in Words of Radiance from the book of the same name are not entirely reliable. But yeah, assume Odium has a similar scale of abilities to what Ruin had, but a different focus of his talents and of his areas of interest. He will find something similar to Ruin's trick with the writing to manipulate events to his liking, and possibly some more subtle means too. The Thrill comes to mind, for instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilamal Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) All shards came from the same thing, Adonalsium, so I think it is safe to assume that they all have the same powers. Nothing we have seen has contradicted that conclusion. Actually, it is probably that they do have different powers, but they each have different parts of Adonalsium's powers. Edited January 21, 2016 by Lilamal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iBambam Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 I think the Thrill it's probably the best example we have of Odium influencing things on Roshar. I'm sure we'll see a lot more manipulation on his part in upcoming books Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSC01 Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 Obviously, the WoB Moogle posted pretty definitively shoots down the main thesis of the OP, but I still think it's interesting to compare Odium to Ruin. See, I think readers are often tempted to look at Ruin as an evil god in the way that Odium is, but I don't think that's terribly accurate. For one thing, when Vin hears Ruin's voice while she's in the Well of Ascension, he sounds kind. I don't think that was just a deception. Hoid says that Ati was a kind person. I vaguely recall a WoB that said that Ruin is more like Cultivation than Odium (that may not be wholly accurate--vague recollection, after all). We kind of see into Ruin's head, via Marsh's POVs in the first Mistborn trilogy. His thinking has been entirely by Ruin, and it's rather horrific. Ruin's nightmarish vision of total destruction seems to resonate with Odium's destructiveness, and it's easy to equate the two. But Odium is much, much worse. That's what is so interesting to me about the comparison: Ruin was actually really nice compared to Odium. We haven't seen into Odium's head yet, but having seen into Ruin's, maybe we don't want to... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iBambam Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) That kind of brings up an interesting, Ham-like, philosophical question. Can we consider a shards intent to be evil? Because the shard itself is controlled and shaped by it's intent, Odium doesn't choose to be the embodiment of hatred, it just is. Now, the actions taken by a shards holder is another thing entirely, however even so, they are still being driven by the intent of the shard they hold. For example, take Ati. At what point do we consider Ati to have become evil, when we know he was a good person who was shaped by the intent of his shard? Was it because his shard was evil? Or were his decisions simply what made him evil? Edited January 22, 2016 by iBambam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oversleep Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 We have a WoB directly on this question: Wait, Preservation and Ruin created Scadrial? I thought that Shardworlds were alreacty created before Shattering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 Wait, Preservation and Ruin created Scadrial? I thought that Shardworlds were alreacty created before Shattering. Nope, Scadrial was created by Ruin and Scadrial. Hero of Ages implies as much. Some Shardworlds were around pre-Shattering, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted January 23, 2016 Report Share Posted January 23, 2016 Nope, Scadrial was created by Ruin and Scadrial. Hero of Ages implies as much. Some Shardworlds were around pre-Shattering, though. Now that I thinks about. If Ruin and Preservation created Scadrial and Preservation is very good in the Future Sight. Probably Preservation created Scadrial to have a planet with Metals as Focus to his Masterplan... O.O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iBambam Posted January 23, 2016 Report Share Posted January 23, 2016 That is very plausible, and based on how HoA played out, seems very likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamEternal Posted January 23, 2016 Report Share Posted January 23, 2016 Now that I thinks about. If Ruin and Preservation created Scadrial and Preservation is very good in the Future Sight. Probably Preservation created Scadrial to have a planet with Metals as Focus to his Masterplan... O.O So if any shard created hemalurgy, it was Preservation 0_o. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted January 23, 2016 Report Share Posted January 23, 2016 So if any shard created hemalurgy, it was Preservation 0_o. Well .... in the end, yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 (edited) Well he probably could've gone for any physical medium that writing can be put into, and found this nice spot that would cause "metal" first, which fits. "Hey, Ati, how about this place?" *muahahahaha* Who's the evil one here? The guy who is honest about planning to destroy the world because there is nothing else he exists for, or the guy who set up his friend from the beginning, made a deal to build something in exchange for letting him blow it up, then backstabbed him immediately? Edited January 24, 2016 by natc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 Yes he need a way to "Seal & hidden" Ruin's Power (therefore a "physical material" as Focus) and to leave the Prophecy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts