Renarins Radiant Abilities

[TwelfthOfSnackTime]

So I'm on another re-read of WoR and something caught my eye in the scene where Dalinar and co first notice the strange writing on the wall (I'm using kindle so I can't give pg numbers). Now I read in another thread somewhere where it was put forward that Renarin was the one responsible for writing the warnings, based on his ability to see ahead as a Truthwatcher and wanting to warn everybody without attracting attention to himself. In this scene Dalinar wakes from his vision and tells it to Navani and everybody leaves him alone in his room, at which time he promptly falls asleep. This scene stuck with me because he mentions how weird it was for him to fall asleep during the day.  

The second Surge of the Truthwatchers is Progression which is the 'Surge of healing and regrowth.' My theory is that Renarin was somehow able to use this surge to put Dalinar to sleep so that he could etch the warning without anyone noticing him.

What do ya'll think? I don't know if this has been discussed yet or not so feel free to tear it up.

[tobar14]

I thought that Dalinar himself is the one who was writing the warnings, he just didn't realize it?

 

I could be wrong, I haven't read the books in awhile and I'm at work so I can't do too much research.

[alexlongwell]

I am pretty sure Dalinar says the writing was in his own hand

[DreamEternal]

I am pretty sure Dalinar says the writing was in his own hand

It was using his own knife, but it is fully confirmed in the book Renarin did it. Did you miss the scene he asked the Almighty why he was cursed with seeing the future itself and started writing zeroes as the Everstorm started? Or when he noticed the wind was blowing in the wrong way and name-dropped the Everstorm some chapters before Pattern said the Stormform Listeners were building a storm? One that would collide with an unexpected highstorm?

EDIT: not that I meant to call you dumb or anything. Most people missed the hints.

On topic: How that surge would make people sleep? By being reversed like a fabrial and diminishing their stamina and endurance?

Edited September 24, 2015 by CognitivePulsePattern

[TwelfthOfSnackTime]

It was using his own knife, but it is fully confirmed in the book Renarin did it. Did you miss the scene he asked the Almighty why he was cursed with seeing the future itself and started writing zeroes as the Everstorm started? Or when he noticed the wind was blowing in the wrong way and name-dropped the Everstorm some chapters before Pattern said the Stormform Listeners were building a storm? One that would collide with an unexpected highstorm?

EDIT: not that I meant to call you dumb or anything. Most people missed the hints.

On topic: How that surge would make people sleep? By being reversed like a fabrial and diminishing their stamina and endurance?

 

 

 

The way I saw it was that he used his healing much like a doctor would use a sedative. I don't know if that is right though because healing magic doesn't seem the same as regular medicine, but its the only thing I can think of here.

[Rockbud]

Slightly off topic, but its also suspicious where Renarin gets the white rock he uses to write with. I'm also curious about the box he plays with...

[maxal]

Slightly off topic, but its also suspicious where Renarin gets the white rock he uses to write with. I'm also curious about the box he plays with...

 

The box is nothing more than stim, a useless object he manipulates to sooth himself. It is a thing with autism, apparently. I am not an expert, but I have read it has been added to the story based on the recommendation of a true autism individual. There is nothing more to it.

 

As for the numbers on the wall, it has been assumed it was him based on the fact he writes some at the end of WoR. Whereas I do agree it was, in all likelihood him, we cannot confirm without the inch of a doubt, yet. There is still a possibility, albeit extremely small, it was not him. That being he did not need to sedate Dalinar, simply to hide himself with Illumination, which he likely did a few times. It was also night, so it is probable Dalinar was sleeping, on his own.

[Patrick Star]

Renarin did it.  He said he had been doing it.  Dalinar thought that he was doing it and that he was going insane, but it was actually Renarin.

[maxal]

Renarin did it.  He said he had been doing it.  Dalinar thought that he was doing it and that he was going insane, but it was actually Renarin.

 

Did he explicitly say he did it? It thought it was still left partially open...

[SmurfAquamarineBodies]

The box is nothing more than stim, a useless object he manipulates to sooth himself. It is a thing with autism, apparently. I am not an expert, but I have read it has been added to the story based on the recommendation of a true autism individual. There is nothing more to it.

 

As for the numbers on the wall, it has been assumed it was him based on the fact he writes some at the end of WoR. Whereas I do agree it was, in all likelihood him, we cannot confirm without the inch of a doubt, yet. There is still a possibility, albeit extremely small, it was not him. That being he did not need to sedate Dalinar, simply to hide himself with Illumination, which he likely did a few times. It was also night, so it is probable Dalinar was sleeping, on his own.

 

You think he is so skilled with his use of Illumination that he can hide himself already? 

[maxal]

You think he is so skilled with his use of Illumination that he can hide himself already? 

 

I think he is more skilled than we think... After all, if he did write the numbers on the wall, he managed to do it with nobody ever doubting a thing. The only way that could have happened is if he managed to hide himself. Besides, both Shallan and Kaladin learned very quickly how to do the basic with their surge, even while being in the early phase of their bonding. There is no reason to suspect Renarin did not do the same.

[natc]

Isn't Renarin kind of expected to be nearby to either Dalinar and Adolin most of the time anyway though? Especially since they've been together for the vision-recording sessions with Navani since WoK.

Nobody pays attention to the person who is supposed to be there. He just needs a good distraction meanwhile.

[Patrick Star]

Did he explicitly say he did it? It thought it was still left partially open...

 

I don't think it was left open at all.  I thought it was pretty clear by the end.

 

Renarin didn't need illumination to hide himself.  He just scribbled it while everyone else was focused on Szeth coming in and trying to murder-lash everyone in the room.

[DreamEternal]

Did he explicitly say he did it? It thought it was still left partially open...

He didn't say it was him, but I don't think there is any evidence that points toward someone else. Of course, maybe I am wrong.

Edited September 25, 2015 by CognitivePulsePattern

[maxal]

He didn't say it was him, but I don't think there is any evidence that points toward someone else. Of course, maybe I am wrong.

 

Of course all evidence points towards it being him, however we don't have the direct proof of it.

 

 

Isn't Renarin kind of expected to be nearby to either Dalinar and Adolin most of the time anyway though? Especially since they've been together for the vision-recording sessions with Navani since WoK.

Nobody pays attention to the person who is supposed to be there. He just needs a good distraction meanwhile.

 

The first mark on the wall happened with a full room tightly guarded. Nobody could understood how someone may have scribe the numbers without being seen. All Renarin had to do is pretend he needed to go the privy, hide himself, scratch the wall, then go back to the privy and pretend he has been there all along. Nobody would questioned that.

 

For the rest, there is an unspoken consensus on the forum Renarin is somewhat completely unable to use his surges which does not make sense. By early WoR, he was already bonding Glys and while he may not have spoken any oath, doing a simple Illumination trick making him akin to a wall seems equivalent to Kaladin diverting the arrows from him during his Bridge runs. He spoke at least one oath early on WoR which would have given him additional power providing the assumption oaths are tied to unlocking strength is true. 

 

There is absolutely no reason to believe Renarin can't surgebinde. In fact, it seems highly improbable he has not surgebinde. All Radiants do it, even in the earliest phases and Renarin is not so novice... He was a Radiant for several weeks by the end of WoR. Simply because we are not seeing his progression does not mean it is not there.

[ParadoxicalZen]

I think it's safe to say Renarin has at least intoned/said the First Oath (i'm uncertain if they can use Surges before that, but my headcanon is they can't and most likely can only use stormlight for the bonuses and not for fueling the Surges). I think it could be possible that he may just not understand his Surges as well as he could, as a result of his knowcked self-esteem/confidence which could easily be rectified come SA3.

[maxal]

I think it's safe to say Renarin has at least intoned/said the First Oath (i'm uncertain if they can use Surges before that, but my headcanon is they can't and most likely can only use stormlight for the bonuses and not for fueling the Surges). I think it could be possible that he may just not understand his Surges as well as he could, as a result of his knowcked self-esteem/confidence which could easily be rectified come SA3.

 

He has to have said, at least, the first oath to be able to hear his Blade screams which presumably happens for the first time in chapter 25, so very early on in the story. Him knowing he is a Truthwatcher implies he may have spoken at least the second oath by the end of WoR, though this is not hard evidence. We cannot know of all sprens acquire conscience of what they are at the same speed as Syl.

 

As for surgebinding, Kaladin used it, albeit unconsciously, before he said the first oath and more consciously afterwards. Renarin does not need to have had the clear intent to put the numbers on the wall, just a strong compulsion to do so and an unconscious trick similar to Shallan enhancing herself without being truly aware of it. Renarin hiding in a wall seems easier to achieve than Shallan's complex tricks, especially if no one was looking at the wall...

 

It is probable he was not willing to experiment like Kaladin and Shallan which would have slowed his progression, but the fact remains he has been a Radiant for nearly as long as Kaladin... We tend to forget that. 

[natc]

Of course all evidence points towards it being him, however we don't have the direct proof of it.

The first mark on the wall happened with a full room tightly guarded. Nobody could understood how someone may have scribe the numbers without being seen. All Renarin had to do is pretend he needed to go the privy, hide himself, scratch the wall, then go back to the privy and pretend he has been there all along. Nobody would questioned that.

For the rest, there is an unspoken consensus on the forum Renarin is somewhat completely unable to use his surges which does not make sense. By early WoR, he was already bonding Glys and while he may not have spoken any oath, doing a simple Illumination trick making him akin to a wall seems equivalent to Kaladin diverting the arrows from him during his Bridge runs. He spoke at least one oath early on WoR which would have given him additional power providing the assumption oaths are tied to unlocking strength is true.

There is absolutely no reason to believe Renarin can't surgebinde. In fact, it seems highly improbable he has not surgebinde. All Radiants do it, even in the earliest phases and Renarin is not so novice... He was a Radiant for several weeks by the end of WoR. Simply because we are not seeing his progression does not mean it is not there.

Nobody really seemed to object to the theory of Dalinar doing it either despite seeing nothing, so I'm somewhat suspicious as to whether anyone was even looking at that wall in the first place.

I'm not saying Renarin can't surgebind, but he really doesn't need to do much of it for this. Just checking in on his father tied to the chair or whatever speaking in ancient languages is something nobody would give a second thought to, never mind mention.

[Ari]

I think it's safe to say Renarin has at least intoned/said the First Oath (i'm uncertain if they can use Surges before that, but my headcanon is they can't and most likely can only use stormlight for the bonuses and not for fueling the Surges). I think it could be possible that he may just not understand his Surges as well as he could, as a result of his knowcked self-esteem/confidence which could easily be rectified come SA3.

 

I'm with Maxal here on Renarin's capabilities- there is definitely a certain amount of unconscious surgebinding proto-radiants can do before they swear the First Oath. (He's presumably been seeing the future since well before swearing the first oath if it bothers him that much!) Renarin is expected to be in the area and under guard, so it's unlikely he would create huge amounts of suspicion even if he were spotted anyway. Between that and possible unconscious surgebinding, it seems reasonable he could have carved the walls.

That said, it is technically something the Stormfather could have caused Dalinar to do, I guess, but given Renarin has admitted to seeing the future, that seems the simpler explanation.

[ParadoxicalZen]

I'm with Maxal here on Renarin's capabilities- there is definitely a certain amount of unconscious surgebinding proto-radiants can do before they swear the First Oath. (He's presumably been seeing the future since well before swearing the first oath if it bothers him that much!) Renarin is expected to be in the area and under guard, so it's unlikely he would create huge amounts of suspicion even if he were spotted anyway. Between that and possible unconscious surgebinding, it seems reasonable he could have carved the walls.

That said, it is technically something the Stormfather could have caused Dalinar to do, I guess, but given Renarin has admitted to seeing the future, that seems the simpler explanation.

 

Given how little we know of Truthwatchers, I'm abstaining from deciding if his foresight was Surge-based or is part of the Truthwatcher passive(s) arsenal.

[Maple Duke]

I think it's too soon to try to pinpoint what oath(s) Renarin has spoken or how proficient he is at surgebinding. Personally I think there's every chance that he may have been a surgebinder as long as Jasnah or longer. Kaladin is suspicious of his explanation of his epilepsy which makes me suspicious. after all Kaladin knows his stuff. And for all we know this could be something related to Cultivation or the Old Magic. The Honor does say that Cultivation is better at seeing the future. Their are too many variables still unsolved to come to any sort of conclusion.

[maxal]

I think it's too soon to try to pinpoint what oath(s) Renarin has spoken or how proficient he is at surgebinding. Personally I think there's every chance that he may have been a surgebinder as long as Jasnah or longer. Kaladin is suspicious of his explanation of his epilepsy which makes me suspicious. after all Kaladin knows his stuff. And for all we know this could be something related to Cultivation or the Old Magic. The Honor does say that Cultivation is better at seeing the future. Their are too many variables still unsolved to come to any sort of conclusion.

 

Based on Dalinar, we can safely assume Renarin spoke, at the very least, the first oath, by chapter 25. This is when he is seen to first hear his Blade scream. Before that, holding it was a mere annoyance, much like Dalinar felt queasy at bonding his new Blade towards the end of WoR. When Dalinar climbs the tower, he says two oaths back to back and then he hears the screams. Was it the first or the second oath that triggered them? We have no idea, but we can be nearly sure Renarin has spoken the first oath, to a minimum, in early WoR. 

 

I agree he may have been surgebinding for longer than we think... For my part, I think he probably started at the same time as Kaladin, sometimes in WoK. He said the oaths a few weeks after Kaladin, but unlike Kaladin, he was not being pro-active in trying to figure it out.

[DreamEternal]

Based on Dalinar, we can safely assume Renarin spoke, at the very least, the first oath, by chapter 25. This is when he is seen to first hear his Blade scream. Before that, holding it was a mere annoyance, much like Dalinar felt queasy at bonding his new Blade towards the end of WoR. When Dalinar climbs the tower, he says two oaths back to back and then he hears the screams. Was it the first or the second oath that triggered them? We have no idea, but we can be nearly sure Renarin has spoken the first oath, to a minimum, in early WoR.

I agree he may have been surgebinding for longer than we think... For my part, I think he probably started at the same time as Kaladin, sometimes in WoK. He said the oaths a few weeks after Kaladin, but unlike Kaladin, he was not being pro-active in trying to figure it out.

I disagree. Renarin winced when he first touched the blade. Dalinar only comented about a mild disconfort compared with his old blade. Plus, he dropped his blade as it started to scream, while Renarin was show as able to hold his screaming blade for long periods of time.

I believe that he had already said the first oath by the time he gained his blade, and by chapter 25 he was the Truthwatcher equivalent of a second oath Radiant. I suspect he is at third oath level equivalent currently, having progressed just before revealing himself.

Ps: I currently believe the Truthwatchers do not use oaths to progress.

Edited September 27, 2015 by CognitivePulsePattern

[maxal]

I disagree. Renarin winced when he first touched the blade. Dalinar only comented about a mild disconfort compared with his old blade. I believe that he had already said the first oath by the time he gained his blade, and by chapter 25 he was the Truthwatcher equivalent of a second oath Radiant. I believe he is at third oath level equivalent currently, having progressed just before revealing himself.

Ps: I currently believe the Truthwatchers do not use oaths to progress.

 

Whereas I do agree the evidence at hand is not conclusive, I do think, given Renarin's later reaction, he would have done more than wince had the Blade scream to him back in chapter 14.

 

I do agree he may be at the third oath. I had theorized as much myself, basing myself on the assumed awareness of Glys.

 

I also do believe the Triuthwatcher are not using oaths to progress, which makes it easier: they don't have to find specific words such as Kaladin. Shallan, we saw, progresses much faster because of it. All she has to do is acknowledge a truth, she already knows her truths, she just has to be ready to speak them. Kaladin's progression seems harder. 

[DreamEternal]

Whereas I do agree the evidence at hand is not conclusive, I do think, given Renarin's later reaction, he would have done more than wince had the Blade scream to him back in chapter 14.

We have never seem how a Radiant who only said the first oath reacts to a deadblade, have we? Dalinar said both oaths in a row, so he doens't count. I suppose there could be something between "mild discomfort" and "wails of the damned", like a sudden pain or numbness in the arm.