Teleportation confirmed

[EmagSamurai]

My first thought on this is that the air above any city is not heavily populated. And since the physics of the cognitive realm seem different than the physical realm, shouldn't one be able to travel through the space "above" populated areas quickly since they are largely uninhabited with the exception of the occasional skyeel? If that's how it works, then moving through the cognitive realm will be fast regardless of whether an area is heavily populated or not.

[hoser he/him]

I had been assuming that teleportation worked in the cognitive realm, until I realized that I knew of no evidence* supporting that assumption.  I could rationalize travel in Shadesmar as faster than physical realm travel, but decided that it was irrelevant.  Even if travel through Shadesmar is 10 times as fast as in the physical realm, it wouldn't be fast enough. 

As far as I can tell, teleportation seems to be nearly instantaneous.  This means that there must be a point-to-point mechanism in some realm.  The obvious possibilities are: 

1. Point to point in the physical realm
2. Transition to Shadesmar, point to point in Shadesmar, return to physical realm
3. Transition to spiritual realm, point to point in the spiritual realm, return to physical realm

If my location is a cognitive aspect, then maybe 2 would explain teleportation, otherwise 1 is the simplest. 

Does this make sense? 

 

* Jasnah distance soulcasting might be evidence supporting option 2, but I don't feel that I understand it well enough to cite. 

[Gloom he/him]

I like option two. Allow me to further expand the theory.

 

The traveler, or a person holding a travel fabrial could do point to point from within the cognitive, but would only be capable of this manner of travel when traveling alone. It would give them the ability to relocate their cognitive and physical aspects, but wouldn't allow them to control the cognitive or physical aspects of those whom they were escorting. This would allow for near instantaneous travel by the Surgebinder/fabrial holder, but would require a journey through Shadesmar if escorting others via Oathgate.

[11thorderknight]

I just want to clarify - I'm not necessarily stating that travel through Shadesmar would take longer in a city. I am stating, however, that there would be more Shadesmar distance to traverse than, say, over empty land, or in the extreme, through outer space. Also, just because it's fast doesn't mean it's easy. That raft that Jasnah made? I'm sure it required Stormlight, since she then proceeded to bitch out Shallan about how dangerous it is to go to Shadesmar without enough of it. 

 

What I was saying is that, while Shadesmar is a great option to cross the continent, and pretty much the only option to worldhop, it might not be that great an option to go over to your buddy's house for dinner if he lives a 20 minute walk away. 

[11thorderknight]

Also, I wouldn't base much on the Stoneward in the Skyfalls interlude. Stonewards don't have the Travel surge, so she was either using (another) fabrial, or Dalinar didn't see her arrive for some other reason. Remember, one of her surges would be the "surface tension" thing, and we know from Teft's histories that she should be "able to make stones melt". Maybe she swam up through the ground, for all we know. And there's still the last surge that we have no clue about. 

[Dros]

Does the Cognitive Realm function the same as the Physical Realm in terms of Time? It didn't seem to effect Shallan, but she was only there for a short time. Could account for the seemingly instantaneous transport to a destination.

[hoser he/him]

Does the Cognitive Realm function the same as the Physical Realm in terms of Time? It didn't seem to effect Shallan, but she was only there for a short time. Could account for the seemingly instantaneous transport to a destination.

That is a very creative thought.  I believe that there is WoB that Hoid has been able to jump forward in time through use of Shadesmar.  Some spren are supposedly partly in the cognitive realm and partly in the physical realm, so it seems that it would be difficult for them, but if one were wholly in Shadesmar and wanted to speed internal time/slow external time, I don't know why it couldn't work.  I wonder if it would allow one to do some amazing things. 

[Gloom he/him]

What I was saying is that, while Shadesmar is a great option to cross the continent, and pretty much the only option to worldhop, it might not be that great an option to go over to your buddy's house for dinner if he lives a 20 minute walk away. 

 

I am agreeable to this. Regardless of anything else, traveling through the Cognitive does require Stormlight, and while I don't know what the dangers of Shadesmar are, we know they exist. Running out of Stormlight is possibly the greatest risk, but we don't know what one might encounter in Shadesmar that could require greater expenditures of Stormlight than expected and leave you in a bind.

[The Count he/him]

Also don't forget we have seem instantaneous information transfer via the use of spanreeds which don't seem to require any cognitive realm involvement.

 

I always thought that transportation would be just that, near instantaneous travel to a predetermined location. 

 

To me it makes more sense that travel could occur purely in the physycal realm as long as the surgebinder has a link of some sort at the target destination.

 

So a surgebinder can go (or send someone) to any location that has the relevant focus point / artefact / gemstone / whatever.

 

Shadesmar may be necessary to locate the traget item and 'lock on' to the destination location but I think the travel itself is purely in the physical realm.

Edited November 18, 2013 by MadRand

[marianmi]

Also don't forget we have seem instantaneous information transfer via the use of spanreeds which don't seem to require any cognitive realm involvement.

 

It uses a spren. That's cognitive.

 

Edit: also, it uses the Surge of Division, which may or may not make use of Shadesmar.

Edited November 18, 2013 by marianmi

[WeiryWriter he/him]

Edit: also, it uses the Surge of Division, which may or may not make use of Shadesmar.

 

umm... Do you have a quote for that?  Because I don't remember anything like that.

[marianmi]

umm... Do you have a quote for that?  Because I don't remember anything like that.

 

No, it's just something I came up with. Spanreeds work by dividing a ruby in 2 parts, rubies are associated with Dustbringers, which have the Division surge. Seems to much of a coincidence.

[Shardlet he/him]

It's best to not use such affirmative statements for thoeries, ideas, and speculations.  It tends to cause confusion and muddy the water.

[11thorderknight]

Not to nitpick, but the gems are not associated with a single surge, they're associated with a single Essence. It's like the circle or surges and the circle of orders/gems/essences are staggered relative to each other, and each surge is shared by two essences, and vice versa. 

 

Also, the spanreeds very obviously use the Cognitive realm; they're made from two gems that are split from a single larger gem, and thereafter remain connected. It's like they still think they're one single gem, wink wink. 

[Kurkistan he/him]

Not to add to the assertions, but spanreeds almost certainly have a heavy Spiritual component to their function. Connections and all.

[The Count he/him]

Also, the spanreeds very obviously use the Cognitive realm; they're made from two gems that are split from a single larger gem, and thereafter remain connected. It's like they still think they're one single gem, wink wink. 

 

This is not necessarily the case.

 

Google Quantum Entanglement and then get back to me.

 

There are examples in the real world of particles remaining linked while being separated by long distances.

 

I agree, a remaining congnitive identity could explain the function. But it is not necessarily a requirement.

 

In fact there are several instances of quantum properties arising in TWoK. The spren measuring is a prime example of this. The Geranid interlude always seemed to me to be like Shroedinger's Cat for the Cosmere. 

Edited November 19, 2013 by MadRand

[11thorderknight]

Real-world quantum entanglement applies to sub-atomic particles, and yes, obviously Brandon drew on his knowledge of physics and quantum theory for inspiration when he came up with realmatics and the three realms for the cosmere, especially with regard to spren. I'm just saying that, in-world, where EVERYTHING exists on all three realms, splitting a gem in two and having the pieces "stay connected" is a pretty clear example of the cognitive driving the physical.

[Kurkistan he/him]

Real-world quantum entanglement applies to sub-atomic particles, and yes, obviously Brandon drew on his knowledge of physics and quantum theory for inspiration when he came up with realmatics and the three realms for the cosmere, especially with regard to spren. I'm just saying that, in-world, where EVERYTHING exists on all three realms, splitting a gem in two and having the pieces "stay connected" is a pretty clear example of the cognitive driving the physical.

Not to add to the assertions, but spanreeds almost certainly have a heavy Spiritual component to their function. Connections and all.

[Shardlet he/him]

Tastes Great!....Less Filling!