Why are "they" present at Gavilar's assassination?

[Herald he/him]

Possible spoilers for WoR below.

Why are the Heralds present during Gavilars assassination? The Heralds I noticed are

1. Nalan

the Azish man with the white birthmark on his cheek. Or was it a scar?

 

2. Another Herald (Kalak/Ishar) talking to Nalan. 

“I’m worried about Ash.”

“You’re worried about everything.”

Jasnah hesitated in the hallway.

“She’s getting worse,” the voice continued. “We weren’t supposed to get worse. Am I getting worse? I think I feel worse.”

“Shut up.”

“I don’t like this. What we’ve done was wrong. That creature carries my lord’s own Blade. We shouldn’t have let him keep it. He—”

Here I think "Ash" = Shalash, "That creature" = Szeth, "my Lord" = Jezrien, "Blade" = Honor Blade

 

3. Shalash is/had been present there. She is confirmed to be Baxil's mistress. Szeth notices that Shalash's statue in the palace was conspicuously missing while the other nine heralds were represented. It had been destroyed by her.

Szeth brushed by, continuing past a line of statues depicting the Ten Heralds from ancient Vorin theology. Jezerezeh, Ishi, Kelek, Talenelat. He counted off each one, and realized there were only nine here. One was conspicuously missing. Why had Shalash’s statue been removed? 

 

What is so interesting in a treaty between Alethi and Parshendi that warrants the attendance of 3 (atleast) Heralds? It seems too much of a coincidence whatever be the significance of the event. Did they attend knowing that the Parshendi were voidbringers and that this event will have some crucial part to play in the Desolation to come?

Edited September 13, 2015 by Jezerezeh

[Yata he/him]

There was a probably fourth Herald, the "drunk man" (in the room with the Herald's Rapresentation) who says to Szeth "Have you see me?" (I have not the book in English so I'm not 100% sure about the original words).

[Herald he/him]

There was a probably fourth Herald, the "drunk man" (in the room with the Herald's Rapresentation) who says to Szeth "Have you see me?" (I have not the book in English so I'm not 100% sure about the original words).

Yeah there is a reference to that, but I'm not sure if it is the Herald. The description fits Ishar but I wonder if we are over-analyzing.

 

A man with a long grey and black beard slumped in the doorway, smiling foolishly—though whether from wine or a weak mind, Szeth could not tell. “Have you seen me?” the man asked with slurred speech.

Edited September 7, 2015 by Jezerezeh'Elin

[Evil_Reptile]

You just blew my mind. That means that all the heralds running around and dying outside castle walls may have also been at Gavilar's assassination, which means they probably knew the significance of something, which is probably the Parshendi doing anything, yet they didn't tell anyone until they went crazy, but by then couldn't get anything across.

Edited September 7, 2015 by Evil_Reptile

[Yata he/him]

Gavilar wanted to call back the "Parshendi's Gods" and the Parshendi was afraid of this.

 

Probably the "Parshmendi's Gods" are relate to Odium (I say related because I don't know if is Odium itself or the Unmade or his Spren).

 

If Gavilar like it seems, was a member of the "sons of Honor". Maybe He wanted the return of Voidbringer as a calling to the Heralds (ironics I know).

[ParadoxicalZen he/him]

Unmade are typically alluded to when referring to the Parshendi gods. We can't be too sure of Gavilar's motives at this moment as he calls out both Thaidakar's name and Restares in his death throes, of which both are purportedly high ranking members of rival secret societies.

 

The drunk man is speculated to either be Ishar or Jezrien and when he says 'have you seen me?' it is practically just before/after the part where the statues of the Herald's are mentioned, and the Herald's are sort of embodying their parallels the Ten Fools. (this is speculation, but there is merit for it) 

[Yata he/him]

The drunk man is speculated to either be Ishar or Jezrien and when he says 'have you seen me?' it is practically just before/after the part where the statues of the Herald's are mentioned, and the Herald's are sort of embodying their parallels the Ten Fools. (this is speculation, but there is merit for it) 

I suspect He is Jezrien.

I think Ishar to be the man of the Spren's Collector POV. The one with the "false-city-of-vegetable"

[Kelek's Breath he/him]

I think Ishar to be the man of the Spren's Collector POV. The one with the "false-city-of-vegetable"

And he is piously guiding a pile of rotting veggies? Interesting.

But he most likely is the the God-priest in Tukkar, whom Mraize thinks is not a local variety human. Which would also fit with the Herlds being the opposite of their attribute (pious turning to blasphemous-claiming to be a God-king).

And could he have been in attendance that night as a foreign tributary before going on to Tukkar?

Edited September 8, 2015 by Kelek's Breath

[Yata he/him]

I saw this "corruption of the Herald's Attributes" in this way.

From pious and guiding to a Big-Brother-like-God to his fake Vegetable-follower

[Grey Knight]

There was a probably fourth Herald, the "drunk man" (in the room with the Herald's Rapresentation) who says to Szeth "Have you see me?" (I have not the book in English so I'm not 100% sure about the original words).

That, or...

 

He was just a drunk man.

[FirstSelector]

I believe that the Heralds were at Gavilar's assassination because they orchestrated it.  Isn't it wildly convenient that the Parshendi, who only learned of Gavilar's plans that very night, had on hand one of the very few people on Roshar who stood a chance to kill the king?

 

We learn later that Nale has been expending considerable effort to assassinate future Surgebinders.  I have a sneaking suspicion that Gavilar, had he not been assassinated, would have become a Bondsmith (which is why he, and then Dalinar, were sent the visions).  In fact, this would justify the extreme measures taken by Nale - he would never have a legal way to touch the king, but (I think) the Bondsmiths wield huge power over establishing new Radiant orders (similar to how Ishar founded them the first time).

 

As an aside, almost immediately after Jasnah visits Shadesmar for the first time, she runs across Nale and (very likely) Nalak.  The former, however, takes the time to frown at her before moving on.  I assume this is because he sensed her nascent abilities, despite their attempts to prevent new Surgebinders.  One has to wonder if Nale realized in that moment that their plan would fail.

 

On somewhat broader strokes, I believe that the Heralds have been running things behind the scenes since the most recent Desolation.  Given that we know that there was a particular secret that destroyed the original Knights and this apparent connection between Surgebinding and Desolations, I suspect that the Heralds were behind forcing the Knights into an early retirement.  I suspect they had a hand in helping the Sunmaker overthrow the Vorin church, probably for the same reasons.

[Oudeis he/him]

Eh. You seem to be assuming here that Nale doesn't want to personally break the law, but has no problem enabling others to do it for him. I think we see from his minions that this is totally not the case. Nale would never in any way encourage a group to break a treaty, and the law, by sending an assassin after a king.

[FirstSelector]

Ah, I should have been more careful in my wording.  I don't think it was only Nale that arranged for the assassination, and as such his personal qualms would be not as important.  Since it appears at least one other Herald was in on the plan, it wouldn't be strictly necessary to follow his usual plan.

 

As an aside, I think that Nale's opinion on law is probably very to-the-letter.  It could very well be that the Parshendi were not technically under the jurisdiction of Alethi law (something like diplomatic immunity), providing an opening.

[Oudeis he/him]

...but they had very definitely signed a treaty, moments ago. That treaty has the force of law. Assassinating the king broke the treaty.

[Hoid Is Dead]

Ain't the missing statue attacked Jasnah?

[natc]

. . . what are you talking about?

Statues don't just attack people unless an awakener comes along.

[Herald he/him]

Ain't the missing statue attacked Jasnah?

 

I think you must have confused Ivory (spren that bonded with Jasnah) with a statue. Did you mean this paragraph from WoR prologue?

 

Several distant shadows—originating in an intersection up ahead—stirred to life. Her breath caught. Those shadows lengthened, deepened. Figures formed from them, growing, standing, rising.

...

One took the shape of a man of midnight blackness, though he had a certain reflective cast, as if he were made of oil. No . . . of some other liquid with a coating of oil floating on the outside, giving him a dark, prismatic quality.

He strode toward her and unsheathed a sword.

Edited September 16, 2015 by Jezerezeh

[Oudeis he/him]

and then Jasnah used the cognitive aspect to assemble a Shadesmar statue and command it to attack, but this shouldn't have affected the original statue. Still, for all we know, doing things like that might have affects on the real world. Maybe when she had her fake statue swing his sword, the real one tried to follow and exploded. She does tell Shallan that Soulcasting is dangerous to experiment with; perhaps this was one of her earlier mishaps.

 

Still, I am on board with most people who assume it was related to Shallash destroying artwork of herself.

[FirstSelector]

Shalash did indeed destroy her own statue in the prologue.

 

Edit: before anyone nitpicks about the quote below it, Shalash is Baxil's mistress.

Edited September 17, 2015 by FirstSelector

[Oudeis he/him]

Etou... I realize I'm going to be accused of nitpicking. But that second quote does not, itself, say that Baxil's Mistress is Shalash. It's brought up in a footnote. Do we have the actual confirmation somewhere?

[Herald he/him]

Etou... I realize I'm going to be accused of nitpicking. But that second quote does not, itself, say that Baxil's Mistress is Shalash. It's brought up in a footnote. Do we have the actual confirmation somewhere?

 

http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/20500-orem-library-signing-on-december-6/?p=204063

Edited September 17, 2015 by Jezerezeh

[Oudeis he/him]

...Anything that's not a paraphrase? I mean, I think it's obvious from the book that it's her, and I absolutely believe it and will be SHOCKED if it's not. But after so consistently saying, "I'm not going to answer that question," I blink a bit at casual confirmation.

 

Actually it's not even a paraphrase, it's just a reference. "He just confirmed that Baxil's Mistress is Shallash." I've just seen people take the things he says or writes and make assumptions before. Did Mr. Sanderson actually say, "Baxil's Mistress is Shallash"? I've seen people take quotes as confirmation that I personally see as still pretty vague.

[Awesomness]

 

“I don’t like this. What we’ve done was wrong. That creature carries my lord’s own Blade. We shouldn’t have let him keep it. He—”

 

That´s what they were doing there. I bet they orchestrated at least in part, al of this to avoid Gavilar to bring the voisdbringers back (he´s a son of honor, very ironic as someone pointed out before).

If not, how did the listeners find the most powerful killer in Roshar with such a convenient timing?

I think at least Nalan is involved, and maybe Kalak.

Ash was there for her own reasons, and Jezrien just to drink and be there on an important event.

[FirstSelector]

Thanks Jez, I couldn't find the actual reference but I (at the risk of admiting to an appeal to authority) trust that the people who maintain the quote database to be very careful.

 

On a second note, it's interesting that early quotes from Brandon seemed to imply that the man from the WoK epilogue was Taln.  Later quotes, however, were hedged or dodged on who, exactly, he was.  Brandon is specifically trying to avoid revealing too much about the Heralds.

 

I have a half-baked theory that we are going to see a very convincing pretend Herald, and to avoid it being weird when he dodges questions later he is starting now.

[Witborn]

...Anything that's not a paraphrase? I mean, I think it's obvious from the book that it's her, and I absolutely believe it and will be SHOCKED if it's not. But after so consistently saying, "I'm not going to answer that question," I blink a bit at casual confirmation.

Actually it's not even a paraphrase, it's just a reference. "He just confirmed that Baxil's Mistress is Shallash." I've just seen people take the things he says or writes and make assumptions before. Did Mr. Sanderson actually say, "Baxil's Mistress is Shallash"? I've seen people take quotes as confirmation that I personally see as still pretty vague.

I'm with Oudeis here. I will go so far as to say until we get confirmation in book I wont accept it as fact, just highly probable. Brandon does like to troll/get misheard/forget things/get confused/change his mind.