TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 Her logic (and btw I don't believe much of this is fact) is apparently something like: "Israel oppresses Palestinians. Palestinians become radical. Middle East becomes radical. Middle Eastern radicals attacks Paris " Which is so full of holes that there's practically nothing there holding the holes together. It *doesn't* make sense. It's good old fashioned "we don't like this. Hey, let's blame the Jews! Great excuse for a pogrom!" That's not logic. That's a surrealist painting without the artistic skill. It's apparent to me that she wants to blame Israel, so she's finding the most tangential connections that allow her to do that. It's harmful, but more than that, it's idiotic. Casting blame onto an unrelated party doesn't solve anything. 1
Orlion Blight he/him Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 Not that I'm in any way an expert on the topic, but didn't the Romans kill Jesus? Yes, and some would say that Jesus was only forgiving the Romans. In the church I was raised in, it was taught that Jesus had to be born in Israel because (more or less word for word) "the Jews were the only people in the entire history of the world wicked enough to kill their own God". That's some highly inflammatory rust right there, if you ask me.
+Slowswift Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 Delightful: Oh yeah. Now I'm even more mad. And Orlion: I've heard similar, but instead of "Jews" it was the people of this world in general. I guess that's what you get when you live on the same planet as Satan. 2
Delightful Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 (I edited my post above and can't work out how to copy onto a new post instead on mobile so: I've added more comments) In the church I was raised in, it was taught that Jesus had to be born in Israel because (more or less word for word) "the Jews were the only people in the entire history of the world wicked enough to kill their own God".That's actually so ridiculous that I want to laugh. The nation that brought "do not kill" to the world....is the most wicked nation? Riiiiight. Suuuuuure. I believe you. "Kill their own G-D". Um. Hello. Which part of "we don't accept Jesus as divine" did you not understand? *splutters in half offense and half laughter*
Delightful Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) That's not logic. That's a surrealist painting without the artistic skill. It's apparent to me that she wants to blame Israel, so she's finding the most tangential connections that allow her to do that. It's harmful, but more than that, it's idiotic. Casting blame onto an unrelated party doesn't solve anything.Actually, the harmful is worse. It gives legitimacy to and encourages terrorists which leads to me having to watch over my shoulder when in walking in the streets and only wear shoes I can run in. And I'm luckier than those who have lost direct relatives and close friends to the terrorists. slowswift - so the world is so evil that's they'll kill God and therefore Jesus had to be born in Israel? I'm missing a step there. Edited November 23, 2015 by Delightful
TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 Yes, and some would say that Jesus was only forgiving the Romans. In the church I was raised in, it was taught that Jesus had to be born in Israel because (more or less word for word) "the Jews were the only people in the entire history of the world wicked enough to kill their own God". That's some highly inflammatory rust right there, if you ask me. Wow, seriously? That's just....wow. I don't agree with everything I was raised to believe, but one thing I do appreciate about my upbringing was how pro-Jewish, pro-Israel it was. So far as the crucifixion went, I heard that every sin of every person in the world was what put Jesus there, meaning no one has the right to point fingers because Jesus died for everyone. I was also taught that Jews have suffered so much persecution through the years because Satan hates them, as they were the people God chose to bring the Messiah into the world. Whatever the metaphysics of this may be, I think followers of the Jesus Way should have an immense amount of respect for Jews and Judaism. 2
Orlion Blight he/him Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 (I edited my post above and can't work out how to copy onto a new post instead on mobile so: I've added more comments) That's actually so ridiculous that I want to laugh. The nation that brought "do not kill" to the world....is the most wicked nation? Riiiiight. Suuuuuure. I believe you. "Kill their own G-D". Um. Hello. Which part of "we don't accept Jesus as divine" did you not understand? *splutters in half offense and half laughter* One of many reasons my belief pretty much made a 180 turn. When people are so full of themselves, they tend to say the must ridiculous and dangerous things.
Delightful Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 e. I was also taught that Jews have suffered so much persecution through the years because Satan hates them, as they were the people God chose to bring the Messiah into the world.I don't know about satan or our differing definitions of Messiah, but I've heard a similar idea. That basically we're chosen to bring morality into the world, it's easier to not be moral, therefore The Nations hate us for pushing up the standards and making them have to work to be good. That's probably super simplified but that's a basic idea I've heard. 1
+Slowswift Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) Delightful: Basically what Twi said, I guess. I wasn't really referring to the "he had to be born in Israel" part. I haven't heard much regarding that. EDIT: Basically this is all hard to explain when one has limited resources and is using Internet Explorer. So my deepest apologies if I'm being incoherent! Edited November 23, 2015 by Slowswift 4
Delightful Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) Delightful: Basically what Twi said, I guess. I wasn't referring to the "he had to be born in Israel" part.Ah ok. Actually that's one of the funnier arguments against "the Jews are just colonial European invaders stealing Palestinian land!" It's like "um.....there was this nice Jewish boy called Jesus who was born in Bethlehem in the "West Bank" 2000 years ago.....heard of him?" Edit: you're using IE? Im not sure if I should be horrified or impressed. Edited November 23, 2015 by Delightful
+Slowswift Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) Thanks for understanding what I'm trying to say, I think. This browser sucks. Yeah, I get peevish when people -- especially religions ones -- are so irrational. And... it's an adventure, that's for sure. See my second sentence. EDIT: Please tell me that was an accidental downvote on my last post. Edited November 23, 2015 by Slowswift
Orlion Blight he/him Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 EDIT: Please tell me that was an accidental downvote on my last post. Shot, it looks like that was my bad, due to Sharding on my phone. Sorry about that.
Delightful Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 Why are you using ie?? Which post? Ill give it a vote.
+Slowswift Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) Oh, you're good, Orlion! Harmony knows I've had my fair share. Delightful, it's because I can't access the other browsers. Trust me, this is a last resort. EDIT: And if your argument becomes "Well, then Jews don't accept Jesus, so that's why He's punishing this world!", then there's really only one thing left for me to do. And that is for me to punch you in the face. Edited November 23, 2015 by Slowswift 3
Delightful Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 And if your argument becomes "Well, then Jews don't accept Jesus, so that's why He's punishing this world!", then there's really only one thing left for me to do. And that is for me to punch you in the face.Yeah, talk about serious rejection issues. (Is that disrespectful? ) So so far this warped logic goes : 1. Jesus was born a Jew because they were the only people wicked enough to kill him. 2. Having killed Jesus, Jesus is now upset at the people who killed him. Who were super evil in the first place. Evil because no reason why. 3. World is in chaos. 4. ????? 5. ???????? 6. ???????????? 7. Profit! Heck that's not even warped logic. It's just word vomit. (Again, if I'm going overboard on disrespect, let me know and I'll tone it down). 3
TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 Yeah, talk about serious rejection issues. (Is that disrespectful? ) So so far this warped logic goes : 1. Jesus was born a Jew because they were the only people wicked enough to kill him. 2. Having killed Jesus, Jesus is now upset at the people who killed him. Who were super evil in the first place. Evil because no reason why. 3. World is in chaos. 4. ????? 5. ???????? 6. ???????????? 7. Profit! Heck that's not even warped logic. It's just word vomit. (Again, if I'm going overboard on disrespect, let me know and I'll tone it down). You could probably replace those question marks with anything and have it still make sense. 1. Jesus was born a Jew, because they were the only people wicked enough to kill him. 2. Having killed Jesus, Jesus is now upset at the people who killed him. Who were super evil in the first place. Evil because no reason why. 3. World is in chaos. 4. Pot pie was run through the blender. 5. Giant squids make good pets, because motorcycles don't have doors. 6. Go back in time and have the Apostle Paul invent orange juice. 7. Profit! 6
Delightful Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 You just made me literally laugh out loud. Thanks. 3
Haelbarde he/him Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 Not that I'm in any way an expert on the topic, but didn't the Romans kill Jesus? Because I feel that this wasn't actually answered properly, just going to jump in here and comment: The Romans crucified Jesus (Matthew 27:27,35), yes. But the Jews laid claim to his death (Matthew 27:20,25), with the person authorizing the crucifixion wanted to distance himself from it as much as possible (Matthew 27:24) while still pleasing the Jews. But yes... there is some warped logic that gets thrown around... And you'd think that we should have gotten over making things up about, or blaming things on, the Jews. Not sure what I could say that would be of any use, Delightful, so I'll just say we're all here for you if you need it. 4
Delightful Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 Your support means more to me than I can express, beyond a simple and woefully inadequate 'thank you'. Haelberde, I'm confused about the crucifixion. Would you mind explaining it to me, assuming that I have no basic knowledge whatsoever, please? 1
Briar King Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 So I take oxycodone for my cluster headaches (Reluctantly since it makes me feel weird all day afterwards) and now I'm down to the last three which means I now need to book an appointment with the doctors and try to avoid feeling like they'll just kick me out as a drugseeker or something. Which is if I can even get an appointment in time and the pharmacy is actually stocked because otherwise I have to go through this with no medication which is just about the worst thing ever and the anxiety of that is going to destroy all the progress I've been making with managing my anxiety and depression lately and now I'm hyperventilating and laugh-crying. I know what that's like. I've been on Norco for 16 yrs cause of nerve pain. I just figured out my ex wife was helping herself to them 2 days ago to.
Claincy he/him Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 Your support means more to me than I can express, beyond a simple and woefully inadequate 'thank you'. Haelberde, I'm confused about the crucifixion. Would you mind explaining it to me, assuming that I have no basic knowledge whatsoever, please? Essentially: -The Jews, particularly the chief priests & elders of the time, demanded his death -Pilate, the Roman governer, eventually agreed in the face of the angry crowd So the Romans killed him at the demand of the Jews. Anyone, especially any Christian, who thinks this is a reason to mistreat Jewish people is utterly wrong though. As far as the Christian faith is concerned Jesus death and resurrection was planned by God, it was always supposed to go that way. Additionally, the point of Jesus's death was the forgiveness of sins, it's definitely not our place to condemn people. I have to admit that I don't know a lot about the differences between some of the various Christian churches, but for Anglicans it's about the love Jesus showed and how we should be sharing the same love with others. If someone has done wrong we should be praying for them to turn to Christ and abandon whatever evil they are doing, not condemning them for any actual or perceived sins. We believe that none of us are worthy, all of us have sinned and fall short and would be condemned. But because Christ died for us so long as we believe in him and accept him as our saviour he will speak for us on judgement day. 5
The Honor Spren she/her Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 I love how people on the shard can have discussions about religion that are actually respectful of others beliefs. 4
TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 I love how people on the shard can have discussions about religion that are actually respectful of others beliefs. Me too. I think this is the first site I've been to where a religious discussion didn't end with insults and threats from the mods. 1
Mashadar Mistborn he/him Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 Me too. I think this is the first site I've been to where a religious discussion didn't end with insults and threats from the mods. *hugs everyone*Yay for people who can respect others!
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