Random Stuff II

[+Slowswift]

Ie from Jerusalem? There is no such thing as ethnically Jewish.

A person is Jewish if their mother('s mothers mothers mother etc) is Jewish, or if they've converted.

Hitler defined someone as Jewish if any one of their four grandparents were Jewish. He was wrong, but that's the definition he used.

 

*facepalm* Ignorant 'Murrican Man strikes again. I blame the history books and bad word choice. I guess I meant someone who was from the general Israel area. Anyways, thanks! 

[Mestiv he/him]

All right Delightful, I agree that there had to be some Poles even worse than Nazis, but I guess we'll have to agree to disagree about the proportions of the good vs bad.

In defence of the German civilians I'd like to say that my grandfather got cought during the war and was sent to a camp on German territory. Luckily he managed to escape from the train that they used to transport prisoners. He ended up on the German land however and for few months he was hiding there. Many German civikians helped him, providing food and sometimes even shelter. So lets remember that not all Germans were bad people.

[Delightful]

I would say 90% of Jews satisfy both. They are a very closed community, and joining the Jewish faith without having Jewish blood is rather difficult. One of my friends from high school had a grandfather who converted to Judaism, and he spent 30 years of his life doing as they asked before they finally, officially, let him in. Remember that their faith puts much emphasis on their blood line, for they are the chosen people.

 

Once again ninja'd. People are active today!

A few points:

 

As I said, there is no such thing as ethnically Jewish..

 

It is hard to convert but it has nothing to do with being the "chosen people" which in itself is an extremely loaded term and doesn't mean whatever you probably think it means. And I have no idea what you mean by 'Jewish blood". Once someone has converted, their past is irrelevant and they should be treated exactly the same as someone born Jewish. it says in the Torah, over and over and over again "Do not oppress a convert." The mother of our royal line, Ruth, is our most famous convert, born as a Moabite princess

.  

We don't encourage converts because we don't believe everyone has to be Jewish. 

If you want to convert, you have to be totally sincere and totally sure that that's what you really want. The process is long, partly as a test of committment and partly because there's a huge amount to learn.  That being said, I've never heard of a convesion taking 30 years. 1 year, maybe 3-5 yes, but not longer than that. 

[Delightful]

Mestiv, I guess people emphasise what they want to ie the deeply scarred people I've heard from/books I've read recount the worst in people. I do not believe that all Poles were bad, maybe not many, I don't know if it's possible to know. . What I did hear from a survivor recently: someone asked her what she wants people to take from her story. She said "There are good people and bad people in every group. There were Poles who dobbed us in and Poles who saved our lives."

It's easier to see the large groups of evil rather than the good people. I guess it's always easier to stereotype. That being said, Hitler "was" voted in. So.....mixed feelings.

 

Again, no offence  meant. I do not think your people are all murderers. The being said, I'd find it very hard to visit Poland. Too much Jewish blood in the soil.

Edited October 1, 2015 by Delightful

[Mestiv he/him]

Again, no offence meant. I do not think your people are all murderers. The being said, I'd find it very hard to visit Poland. Too much Jewish blood in the soil.

And that I can totally understand and sympathize with.

[Orlion Blight he/him]

Cuteness trigger warning!

[Blaze1616 he/him]

A few points:

 

As I said, there is no such thing as ethnically Jewish..

 

It is hard to convert but it has nothing to do with being the "chosen people" which in itself is an extremely loaded term and doesn't mean whatever you probably think it means. And I have no idea what you mean by 'Jewish blood". Once someone has converted, their past is irrelevant and they should be treated exactly the same as someone born Jewish. it says in the Torah, over and over and over again "Do not oppress a convert." The mother of our royal line, Ruth, is our most famous convert, born as a Moabite princess

.  

We don't encourage converts because we don't believe everyone has to be Jewish. 

If you want to convert, you have to be totally sincere and totally sure that that's what you really want. The process is long, partly as a test of committment and partly because there's a huge amount to learn.  That being said, I've never heard of a convesion taking 30 years. 1 year, maybe 3-5 yes, but not longer than that. 

 

Perhaps I didn't explain myself well enough. By Jewish blood I meant what you described in another post, about how it's dependent on your mother. It's still blood lines, even if there's nothing in the blood that says "Jewish". 

 

I never said anything about him being treated differently once he was accepted, just that the process to be accepted took quite a bit of time. 

 

While on the topic, I would like to say something, but I beg of you to not take it offensively as I don't mean it as such: Though you say you don't easily allow non-Jewish people to convert due to simply not feeling everyone need be Jewish, I have to ask how this isn't any different than testing people to be sure they are loyal to the Jewish faith. After all, the person wasn't born among God's chosen people, and so allowing just anyone to convert isn't desirable at all.

 

Anyways, I would really appreciate it if you could describe how you understand the God's chosen to mean. I've read about it before, a long time ago, and from how I understand it "God's chosen" simply means that the Jewish people are promised a place in Heaven.

 

I don't actually know any Jewish people first hand, so much of my questions about the faith generally go unanswered. Meanwhile all of my questions regarding the other two Abrihimic religions get answered due to living in a population of mostly Christians, and near the largest population of Muslims outside the Middle East. It's something I find very unfortunate, as I love learning new things.

[ThirdGen]

I know some first hand, and I can confirm that the questions "Who is a Jew?" and "What does 'chosen people' mean?" are subjects of debate within the Jewish community.

[Kaymyth she/her]

Cuteness trigger warning!

 

Thank you, Orlion.  I think we all needed that.

[Delightful]

Ok I'll do my best here.

Perhaps I didn't explain myself well enough. By Jewish blood I meant what you described in another post, about how it's dependent on your mother. It's still blood lines, even if there's nothing in the blood that says "Jewish".

I never said anything about him being treated differently once he was accepted, just that the process to be accepted took quite a bit of time. I see what you're saying. There's no superiority involved though, which I find implied in what you said. Which is why I commented on the treatment of converts - someone whos converted and who doesnt have "Jewish blood" is just as Jewish as the next person.

While on the topic, I would like to say something, but I beg of you to not take it offensively as I don't mean it as such: Though you say you don't easily allow non-Jewish people to convert due to simply not feeling everyone need be Jewish, I have to ask how this isn't any different than testing people to be sure they are loyal to the Jewish faith. After all, the person wasn't born among God's chosen people, and so allowing just anyone to convert isn't desirable at all.

I'm not sure if I understand your question.

We don't discourage people from converting because as you say 'they weren't born among the chosen people". Like I said, no superiority involved. As I understand it, it's from the perspective that Judaism isn't a joke, it's not like a diet you pick up on a whim and drop again whenever you feel like. It's not a hobby, or a game. It's like.....i guess you could say it's a kind if spiritual contract. A convert is entirely committing themselves to G-D and the Jewish people for life, through thick and thin the whole way. So you have to be absolutely dedicated and absolutely sure in order to be allowed to convert.

We don't believe everyone needs to be Jewish because that's just not how the world works. Every person, every family, every nation is unique and has something unique to offer. This isn't a Christian (and forgive me if this comes across callously or offensively), this isn't a 'convert of die/you must believe in Jesus to be saved' kind of mentality. We are who we are and everyone else is who they are. That's it. You want to 'join the club'? Know what you're getting yourself into.

Anyways, I would really appreciate it if you could describe how you understand the God's chosen to mean. I've read about it before, a long time ago, and from how I understand it "God's chosen" simply means that the Jewish people are promised a place in Heaven.

I don't actually know any Jewish people first hand, so much of my questions about the faith generally go unanswered. Meanwhile all of my questions regarding the other two Abrihimic religions get answered due to living in a population of mostly Christians, and near the largest population of Muslims outside the Middle East. It's something I find very unfortunate, as I love learning new things.

This is way to big a question to be answered comprehensively by one person in one forum post. I'll try.

Firstly, it has nothing to do with being promised a place in heaven. The Jewish view on heaven and/or hell is complicated. Like I said, this isn't like "Believe in Jesus and your soul is saved" kind of thing. That's not how Judaism operates.

What does being the chosen nation mean? Ok, deep breath, let me try answer this. With the caveat that it's late, I'm tired, and what I know is by absolutely no means the sum total of what Judaism has to say on the subject.

It means that Abraham, and then his son Isaac, and then his son Jacob and then his 12 sons turned around and recognised G-D in a pagan world. They chose to serve G-D, and in Egypt and at Mt Sinai G-D chose us back.

It means we're responsible for being a "light unto the nations" for trying to be morally better than everyone else and showing everyone the way to go. Not as in "look at me, look at me aren't I great" but as in "hey guys.......maybe you want to stop sacrificing your children to pagan gods. And maybe you don't want to murder. or steal." (so like I was saying, we don't believe that non-Jews need to be Jewish or follow the commandments. I'm not an expert on this, but Judaism has 7 categories of rules for Non-Jews. If I rememvber correctly it's - Recognise G-D, bless G-D, don't serve idols (see: pagan gods as above), Don't steal, have a legal system and enforce civil law, be kind to animals, don't cheat on your spouse. so Religous stuff, and basically be good people).|

So it means that we were chosen to stand out, and put up with everyones insecure crap and be the world's scapegoat because no one likes being told that they aren't doing things properly, they don't like being told they need to change because that takes effort and oh look it would be easier right now to round up a pogrom and go Jew-killing. (I meant to say earlier re general antisemitism in europe - before the holoacuse there were plenty pogroms. "The Jews killed Jesus" was a pretty good excuses for anything).

it doesn't mean we're always good at our job, or that we don't mess up a lot, badly. But I do believe it is still our job.

And I'm going to throw this out there also - I may regret this but I'm tired and I'll post it anyway and deal with fallout tomorrow - i think there are times we still do a pretty good job. I'll see if I can find the source tomorrow, but there was some kind of UN investigation into the war between Gaza and Israel a year ago. The conclusion was that the Israeli army were being so careful regards not harming Gazan civilians, that it would possibly tie the hands of other countries fighting in similar situations later on. Especially compared with what I believe is America's policy re fighting ISIS which is "civilians? What are civilians? Just do what it takes to kill the terrorists". There was a HONY post the other day about an airport bombed and all the people in it killed, for example. So there are times we get stuff right too.

So that was my controversial statement for the night. I'm out. Will try reply to more/reactions tomorrow.

Quick Edit:

I know some first hand, and I can confirm that the questions "Who is a Jew?" and "What does 'chosen people' mean?" are subjects of debate within the Jewish community.

Yes.

And I have no idea what just happened with the formatting.

Quick edit 2 re ethnicity: what exactly we are as a group is also up for debate. Religion? Nation? Ethnicity? Part of all the above and part none of the above. The best explanation I've seen so far is "large extended family" but even that doesn't capture the complexity.

Edited October 1, 2015 by Delightful

[+Slowswift]

So apparently my cousin considers root beer with maple syrup to be an eldritch abomination? 

[Kestrel she/her]

...

what an

interesting conversation i missed

[Mistrunner]

...

what an

interesting conversation i missed

...yeah. Very.

On the topic of "not all _____ were bad during that time" I have to add the story of a group of women from Berlin. They conspired against the Nazis. I can't remember what the group was called, but they were some amazing people.

I think the important thing about the atrocities people on all sides have done in the past (and the present, even- look at ISIS) is that we learn from them and do all we can to stop it from happening again. I know it's extremely cliche, but it's true.

Now, how about a silly anecdote?

Today we were practicing a beautiful Latin piece in choir. Well, the choir room is right next to the band room. So we're singing this slow, melancholy piece and I start hearing "Eye of the Tiger" being played vigorously next door.

It was awesome.

[+Slowswift]

Today was a college fair at school, so it was a half-day. Also, I'm really excited for college.

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

Today was a college fair at school, so it was a half-day. Also, I'm really excited for college.

College is ten times better than high school. Even when you're still working through the prereqs, most of your profs will still treat you like an adult. You may get the odd prof who thinks they're teaching high school freshmen (I had one who would throw a mini-tantrum every time her students packed up early and make them all stay five extra minutes, which was devastating to those who had ten- or twenty-minute walks to their next classes) but they're in the minority.

[+Slowswift]

College is ten times better than high school. Even when you're still working through the prereqs, most of your profs will still treat you like an adult. You may get the odd prof who thinks they're teaching high school freshmen (I had one who would throw a mini-tantrum every time her students packed up early and make them all stay five extra minutes, which was devastating to those who had ten- or twenty-minute walks to their next classes) but they're in the minority.

Oh, good!

...though I was a bit baffled at the USU tradition of smooching over a giant "A".

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

Oh, good!

...though I was a bit baffled at the USU tradition of smooching over a giant "A".

I'm....not familiar with that one, though I'm sure it's just one of many nutty college traditions. Spokane Community College loves Bigfoot so much they made him their mascot (I was editor-in-chief of the campus paper The Sasquatch Times, and greenlit a comic called Sasquatch and Littlefoot) while the University of Arizona writes their motto "Bear Down" on every surface they can reach. There's even a building with "Bear Down" written on the roof.

Is USU where you plan on going, or are you still going through your options?

[+Slowswift]

I'm....not familiar with that one, though I'm sure it's just one of many nutty college traditions. Spokane Community College loves Bigfoot so much they made him their mascot (I was editor-in-chief of the campus paper The Sasquatch Times, and greenlit a comic called Sasquatch and Littlefoot) while the University of Arizona writes their motto "Bear Down" on every surface they can reach. There's even a building with "Bear Down" written on the roof.

Is USU where you plan on going, or are you still going through your options?

The three colleges' presentations I saw were Utah State, Weber State, and Snow College. So I'm gonna end up at one of those three, most likely.

Which is cool 'cause my mom went to Weber, my cousin went to Snow, and my great-grandpa taught at Utah State.

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

The three colleges' presentations I saw were Utah State, Weber State, and Snow College. So I'm gonna end up at one of those three, most likely.

Which is cool 'cause my mom went to Weber, my cousin went to Snow, and my great-grandpa taught at Utah State.

So no matter where you go, you'll make at least one person in your family happy.

[+Slowswift]

So no matter where you go, you'll make at least one person in your family happy.

And if I can transfer to BYU at some point, I'll make even more people happy, as my mother also went there and my aunt teaches there...

Seriously. My family is weirdly academic.

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

And if I can transfer to BYU at some point, I'll make even more people happy, as my mother also went there and my aunt teaches there...

Seriously. My family is weirdly academic.

Not a bad thing to be. My dad went to college but didn't finish, and my mom never went. I was the first person in my immediate family to earn a Bachelor's, let alone a Master's.

[+Slowswift]

Not a bad thing to be. My dad went to college but didn't finish, and my mom never went. I was the first person in my immediate family to earn a Bachelor's, let alone a Master's.

Really? Well, congrats!

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

Really? Well, congrats!

Thanks!

Also, a text conversation between me and my sister (Spoilered just in case someone hasn't read TFE):

Her: What exactly is a Kandra?

Me: It's a grown-up Mistwraith. They can take on the form of anything they eat.

Her: HOLY FLIP FLAP CRACKLE SNAP THAT'S JUST CREEPY! So they hired a freaking Mistwraith....to eat a great lord...so they could infiltrate the nobility. I'm dying.

Edited October 2, 2015 by TwiLyghtSansSparkles

[+Slowswift]

Thanks!

Also, a text conversation between me and my sister (Spoilered just in case someone hasn't read TFE):

Her: What exactly is a Kandra?

Me: It's a grown-up Mistwraith. They can take on the form of anything they eat.

Her: HOLY FLIP FLAP CRACKLE SNAP THAT'S JUST CREEPY! So they hired a freaking Mistwraith....to eat a great lord...so they could infiltrate the nobility. I'm dying.

That's great.

[mail-mi he/him]

Oh, good!

...though I was a bit baffled at the USU tradition of smooching over a giant "A".

Oh, there are tons of traditions like that. At lone peak you get your first kiss in public and get "knighted," and at UVU you kiss somewhere and become a "true wolverine."