Stormlight Three: Dalinar Flashbacks

[Kelek's Breath he/him]

So Dalinar named his Blade after a book? This is weird. I would not have expected this from young Dalinar. I wonder what the book was about.

 

Maybe it's a book about Ishi/Ishar and the Heralds. He is the one that brought the Oaths to the Radiants after all. So, it might be a long lost book on the creation of the Knights Radiant, Pre-Recreance, so that our characters get some help on how they functioned and how to get more spren to come from Shadesmar to bond.

[Guest]

About him of course .

I mean, this IS Dalinar, his life was probaly very interesting.

 

Oh I was not saying it wasn't. Dalinar is and remain the flashback I was the most anxious to read, though he did say he bonded Oathbringer at the age of 20 (approximately). I am surprised 20 years old Dalinar would have liked a book enough to call his Blade after it. 

 

 

Maybe it's a book about Ishi/Ishar and the Heralds. He is the one that brought the Oaths to the Radiants after all. So, it might be a long lost book on the creation of the Knights Radiant, Pre-Recreance, so that our characters get some help on how they functioned and how to get more spren to come from Shadesmar to bond.

 

Seems improbable considering how old Dalinar was at the time... He did not start to interest himself into the Radiant before he had the visions. In WoK, he states he bonded his Blade 30 years ago.... so early twenties. 

 

I wager the book was a child's book he was found of... one of those stories he had his Parshendi nurse read to him over and over again. One that struck young Dalinar's imagination and prompt him to chose "leadership" as his Glory...

[Kelek's Breath he/him]

Seems improbable considering how old Dalinar was at the time... He did not start to interest himself into the Radiant before he had the visions. In WoK, he states he bonded his Blade 30 years ago.... so early twenties.

 

I wager the book was a child's book he was found of... one of those stories he had his Parshendi nurse read to him

Sorry, I didn't explain my thought properly. I was thinking that it could be a book they find in Urithiru named Oathbringer, which is how Dalinar had coincidentally named his Blade.

The Blade being a family heirloom, could mean that it was named by someone else Oathbringer. Dalinar is all about traditions so he would have kept the name.

 

I have trouble imagining a Parshman reading let alone be a nurse. They hardly talk when prodded.

Edited June 17, 2015 by Kelek's Breath

[DreamEternal]

Maxal, I was joking that at early twenties Dalinar already had an biography called Oathbringer, because he was just that interesting.

[StormingTexan he/him]

This talk about not caring about Nightblood is blasphemy!  

 

I would have been equally excited if this was Stick's book but Dalinar's sounds interesting. I admit I was excited about the possibility of Szeth's book we know what he is now (well pre-WOR ending) but little about how he came to be except that he was deemed truthless. I'd like to learn more about the Shen too. 

 

I must be in the minority here really looking forward to Eshonai's flashbacks. I really like seeing the flip side of the coin and want to know more about the Parshendi form their POV. 

 

[natc]

Maxal, I was joking that at early twenties Dalinar already had an biography called Oathbringer, because he was just that interesting.

I don't always bond shardblades.

But when I do, I name them after my own biography.

He is the most interesting highprince in the world.

[skaa he/him]

I don't always bond shardblades.

But when I do, I name them after my own biography.

He is the most interesting highprince in the world.

As I suggested above, the biography might have been named after the Shardblade, as a sort of metonym for Dalinar. Oathbringer was an integral part of the Blackthorn's legend, so any biographer of his would be aware of it. Edited June 17, 2015 by skaa

[Guest]

Sorry, I didn't explain my thought properly. I was thinking that it could be a book they find in Urithiru named Oathbringer, which is how Dalinar had coincidentally named his Blade.

The Blade being a family heirloom, could mean that it was named by someone else Oathbringer. Dalinar is all about traditions so he would have kept the name.

 

I have trouble imagining a Parshman reading let alone be a nurse. They hardly talk when prodded.

 

I do not think the Blade was a family heirloom... Dalinar bonded it some thirty years ago, meaning in his early twenties. Had it been a family heirloom, wouldn't he have gotten it at 16 like Adolin? Unless the previous owner was fighting with it and only gave it to Dalinar when he grew too old for the fighting... After all, Sadeas did complain about the "injustice" of Adolin being a so young and a full shardbearer stating in "normal circumstances", the boy would have had to wait many more years until his father was done fighting before inheriting the family's shards... He said it was only happenstance his mother's family had a Plate laying about, unused.

 

I personally like to think Dalinar won his Blade during a war, but not a duel.

 

 

Maxal, I was joking that at early twenties Dalinar already had an biography called Oathbringer, because he was just that interesting.

 

Pffff and people think Adolin's past is not interesting... Joke apart, I am really keen on finding what Oathbringer, the book, was about. And young Dalinar, how was young Dalinar? Was he a bit like Adolin? Or not? I get the feeling Adolin takes a lot after his mother...

[HK-42]

Pffff and people think Adolin's past is not interesting... Joke apart, I am really keen on finding what Oathbringer, the book, was about. And young Dalinar, how was young Dalinar? Was he a bit like Adolin? Or not? I get the feeling Adolin takes a lot after his mother...

"It is both satisfying and profoundly disturbing to finally put to paper the man Dalinar was thirty years before The Way of Kings started."

https://twitter.com/BrandSanderson/status/611285669533589505

I don't think he will be very much like Adolin.

[+Wax he/him]

Awesome.. can't hardly wait.

 

Also, has anyone noted that in the scene before the last duel for shardplate, Adolin remembers he doesn't have the his mother's chain she had given him (chapter 56).

 

Is it some type of special shard/fabriel given the whole shshsh scenario?

[Guest]

"It is both satisfying and profoundly disturbing to finally put to paper the man Dalinar was thirty years before The Way of Kings started."

https://twitter.com/BrandSanderson/status/611285669533589505

I don't think he will be very much like Adolin.

 

Dalinar comments a few times on how he thinks Adolin is much like him... In a way, he is right, but he also is so wrong in many other ways... They have things in common, but not so much when it comes down to it. Dalinar projects himself a lot into his son and tends to reduce him to a younger version of himself, a grave mistake, I think. My recent thoughts are Adolin takes a lot more after his mother than after his father...

 

So thirty years ago? We are getting to read him bonding Oathbringer. I am so excited!!!!

 

 

Awesome.. can't hardly wait.

 

Also, has anyone noted that in the scene before the last duel for shardplate, Adolin remembers he doesn't have the his mother's chain she had given him (chapter 56).

 

Is it some type of special shard/fabriel given the whole shshsh scenario?

 

Someone once asked Brandon about the necklace, asking if it was relevant. Brandon said the necklace was only important to Adolin, which implies it is not a fabrial nor is it magical. It simply is a necklace Adolin keeps on him probably to keep the memories of his mother close by or something akin to it. 

 

We do not know if mother gave it to him before she died or if he took afterwards. Another one of the reasons I wanted the Adolin's flashbacks. Dalinar probably does not know about the necklace thing, so the potential of him broaching the subject in his own flashbacks are slim to none.

[ljósmóður she/her]

Awesome.. can't hardly wait.

 

Also, has anyone noted that in the scene before the last duel for shardplate, Adolin remembers he doesn't have the his mother's chain she had given him (chapter 56).

 

Is it some type of special shard/fabriel given the whole shshsh scenario?

 

I thought of the missing chain as being just a precious memento rather than something that would grant Adolin extra powers. I wouldn't want it to be that, to be honest.

 

I thought its significance was as a literary device to explore Adolin's character and the ways in which he matures through WOR. He's a master duellist -  he's chosen it as a calling and he's pretty darn good at it! He is always superstitious and observes rituals before his duels, like talking to his blade and eating chicken ... and carrying his chain. He loses the chain, has a really rough duel but (with help) still manages to defeat 4 combatants  . I thought the lost chain served as a metaphor for Adolin growing in confidence and realising that his skill in duelling is his own and doesn't come from all the different rituals he observes. Plus, the fact that it was his mother's chain, means that by not relying on it he's stepping out of his parent's (read: father, in particular) shadow and taking steps to becoming a future highprince in his own right.

 

But then I'm a former English teacher so I see symbolic imagery in everything  !

 

On the topic of the third book: I'm really excited to think it might explore Dalinor's past. After Kaladin, he's one of the characters I felt most engaged with. There are enough hints that he was very different as a young man and I think his strange visions and total shift in mindset through WoK and WoR will seem even more poignant when set against his brashness as a young man. The only thing I fear is that some of the flashbacks are likely to contain large amounts of violence which I'm not a great fan of reading. But there's a quote about Gavilar and Dalinor creating the kingdom by wading through blood so I can't see that there's a way around exploring that. Unlike Doctor Who, however, you can't read a book whilst hiding behind a cushion (it's too hard to hold the book at the same time!).

Edited June 18, 2015 by Mrs.K.Stormblessed

[Bort he/him]

I'm looking forward to reading Dalinar's flashbacks, and finally finding out more about Shshshshsh.

 

As for the sword and the book, Oathbringer, I think it kind of indicates that book three of the Stormlight Archives will cover the Bondsmiths as well as their first new member. After all, one of his oaths was that he would bring people together.

 

I'm of the opinion that his sword was named, not for the book, but for the oaths his blade brought Gavilar (as in, kneeling  Highprinces swearing oaths of allegiance).

[+Wax he/him]

Well, the other thing I can see are two more bondsmiths joining dalinar.

I think one of the quotes was that bondsmiths usually numbered 3, which was not uncommon for them even though others radiant were more prolific.

[Guest]

 

I thought of the missing chain as being just a precious memento rather than something that would grant Adolin extra powers. I wouldn't want it to be that, to be honest.

 

Fear not: Brandon has said it was nothing more than a necklace. It is not giving Adolin supernatural powers, in fact, we can state Adolin may be the only non-magical character, so far.

 

 

 

I thought its significance was as a literary device to explore Adolin's character and the ways in which he matures through WOR. He's a master duellist -  he's chosen it as a calling and he's pretty darn good at it! He is always superstitious and observes rituals before his duels, like talking to his blade and eating chicken ... and carrying his chain. He loses the chain, has a really rough duel but (with help) still manages to defeat 4 combatants   . I thought the lost chain served as a metaphor for Adolin growing in confidence and realising that his skill in duelling is his own and doesn't come from all the different rituals he observes. Plus, the fact that it was his mother's chain, means that by not relying on it he's stepping out of his parent's (read: father, in particular) shadow and taking steps to becoming a future highprince in his own right.

 

I like your analogy, but we could also see it differently. My personal take on the necklace is it serves as a memento for his lost mother. Adolin is a very family oriented young man and his behavior towards Navani indicates he does miss his mother. Despite having moved into his twenties, he happily lets her mother him, worst he yearns for more. 

 

Adolin also is a very talented young man, when it comes to dueling, but still he doubts. Deep down, despite knowing he is one of the best, he is afraid he won't be up to the challenge. The rituals as a security blanket: they worked once, they have always worked, skipping them suddenly increase his nervousness. Yes, he still won, but it went horribly bad. Will it serve to make him out grow his rituals or will it increase his stress level over the next duel? This is still to be seen.

 

Overall, I am not sure it will increase his confidence level... especially considering the events at the end of the book. I like the idea it makes him outgrow his need for his family reconnaissance, but I feel the greatest growth moment for him was killing Sadeas. It was a firm step outside Dalinar's infuence and I believe father and son will clash much in the next book as Dalinar will be afraid his son is turning into his old self (which would never happen because Adolin does not have he same thirst for blood Dalinar once had: he has a kindness in his heart Dalinar just does not have, something I'd wager he gets from his mother).

 

Despite all this, carrying the necklace, talking to the Blade, also have other purposes... as it highlights Adolin's greatest trait: he cares. A lot. And he does not want to forget his mother, even though everyone else seem to have to. He does not want to forget his lost soldiers either, visibly being the most affected by the events. He wants to honor the memory of his Blade by refusing to give it a makeshift name. All in all, Adolin is quite set on remembering, not forgetting and caring a lot for those around him.... Oh yeah it is true... He does carry a dead-Edgedancer Blade. The parallel is just too easy to make.

 

 

 

On the topic of the third book: I'm really excited to think it might explore Dalinor's past. After Kaladin, he's one of the characters I felt most engaged with. There are enough hints that he was very different as a young man and I think his strange visions and total shift in mindset through WoK and WoR will seem even more poignant when set against his brashness as a young man. The only thing I fear is that some of the flashbacks are likely to contain large amounts of violence which I'm not a great fan of reading. But there's a quote about Gavilar and Dalinor creating the kingdom by wading through blood so I can't see that there's a way around exploring that. Unlike Doctor Who, however, you can't read a book whilst hiding behind a cushion (it's too hard to hold the book at the same time!).

 

I hope the flashbacks will be used to illustrate Dalinar'S growth and emphasis how his son is not following those steps. Dalinar was a very angry young man who killed for no reason other than someone talked bad to him. According to Sadeas, Dalinar made heads roll and not always for good reasons. I hope by looking back at his past, the father will find in him to forgive his misguided son and understand if he is to be "guiding", he better starts by his son.

[Guest]

Guys, a new one on Dalinar.

 

Q: If a novel can be named 'oathbringer', does that mean Dalinar named his sword after a book? Because that's pretty nerdy.

A: Many Shardblades have names that extend well beyond the original owner.

 

He did not name the Blade after a book, the Blade already bore that name... So perhaps it was a family heirloom... after all Sadeas did not change the name. Oathbringer must have been pass from hands to hands in Alethkar for generations and generations.

 

It makes me wonder about Adolin's nameless Blade... Didn't it have a name before he won it? He trashed the name? Seems doubtful. Or was it his own Blade did not come with a long tradition? Could it be a foreign Blade? After all, Dalinar only saw Stonewards, Windrunners and presumably Dustbringers give up their Blades... He also states on how many Blades must be missing... What did the Edgedancers do with theirs? Would be fitting they would not leave them on the ground... 

[HK-42]

^  My guess is that the name was simply forgotten. Didn't Amaram automatically give his Shardblade a new name? I'd imagine it is hard to keep a blade's ancient name from being lost.

It looks like Eshonai may be the prologue POV.

 

 

@BrandSanderson Excellent! Will we have another character's perspective of the opening scene of way of kings? That would be very interesting

 

Brandon Sanderson ‏

@vatsan16 Yes. Probably Eshonai this time.

Edited June 18, 2015 by NavySealsGuy

[natc]

If it is Eshonai, we will see them debate over sending Szeth in a little most likely. Might shed some light on the mystery of Gavilar.

[Guest]

^  My guess is that the name was simply forgotten. Didn't Amaram automatically give his Shardblade a new name? I'd imagine it is hard to keep a blade's ancient name from being lost.

 

Not necessarily the ancient name, but most Blades are passed down from fathers to sons and even when won over, the name must retained. These name must date from a time after the Recreance. Adolin's Blade was perhaps won in a war across the border, brought insight Alethkar until it fail in his hands. Surely it is not one with a long tradition or else Adolin would have had the incentive to keep the name. 

 

Eshonai for the opnening scene was one of the character we suggested a while back on this forum. Other contenders were Galivar and Amaram.

 

I am glad it is Eshonai though as it will give us insight on the Parshendi's reasons to murder Galivar. I am overly found of her as a character, but for the opening scene, she is a very good choice.

[ljósmóður she/her]

 

 

 

I like your analogy, but we could also see it differently. My personal take on the necklace is it serves as a memento for his lost mother. Adolin is a very family oriented young man and his behavior towards Navani indicates he does miss his mother. Despite having moved into his twenties, he happily lets her mother him, worst he yearns for more. 

 

Adolin also is a very talented young man, when it comes to dueling, but still he doubts. Deep down, despite knowing he is one of the best, he is afraid he won't be up to the challenge. The rituals as a security blanket: they worked once, they have always worked, skipping them suddenly increase his nervousness. Yes, he still won, but it went horribly bad. Will it serve to make him out grow his rituals or will it increase his stress level over the next duel? This is still to be seen.

 

Overall, I am not sure it will increase his confidence level... especially considering the events at the end of the book. I like the idea it makes him outgrow his need for his family reconnaissance, but I feel the greatest growth moment for him was killing Sadeas. It was a firm step outside Dalinar's infuence and I believe father and son will clash much in the next book as Dalinar will be afraid his son is turning into his old self (which would never happen because Adolin does not have he same thirst for blood Dalinar once had: he has a kindness in his heart Dalinar just does not have, something I'd wager he gets from his mother).

 

Despite all this, carrying the necklace, talking to the Blade, also have other purposes... as it highlights Adolin's greatest trait: he cares. A lot. And he does not want to forget his mother, even though everyone else seem to have to. He does not want to forget his lost soldiers either, visibly being the most affected by the events. He wants to honor the memory of his Blade by refusing to give it a makeshift name. All in all, Adolin is quite set on remembering, not forgetting and caring a lot for those around him.... Oh yeah it is true... He does carry a dead-Edgedancer Blade. The parallel is just too easy to make.

 

 

 

 

Yes. This interpretation makes a lot of sense to me too - thinking of the necklace as a symbol of how family-centred Adolin is. And I do like how all his rituals tie in so beautifully with the Edgedancer oaths to go with his Edgedancer blade.

[Guest]

Yes. This interpretation makes a lot of sense to me too - thinking of the necklace as a symbol of how family-centred Adolin is. And I do like how all his rituals tie in so beautifully with the Edgedancer oaths to go with his Edgedancer blade.

 

I wholeheartedly agree the necklace has symbolism for Adolin as a character and there are more than one interpretation to it. The idea of the metaphor is brilliant: in an essay a student could easily make it a strong point. I am not sure Brandon intended it this way (though he would surely smile at the idea), but it is nearly impossible to overlook the foreshadowing it creates for Adolin speaking future Edgedancer oaths. To think I spent a year thinking he would make a good Dustbringer. How wrong have I been!

 

Anyhow, a good author does not plant an item such as the necklace only to make it insignificant at the end. Well, Jordan may have done it, but Brandon is that kind of author... I am thus confident we are going to hear about it, again. I am also confident the boys will find out about their father losing all memories of their mother, though I suspect Renairn may have figured it out by now. 

[+Wax he/him]

Well, i wonder if we'll see more bondsmiths.

“But as for the Bondsmiths, they had members only three, which number was not uncommon for them; nor did they seek to increase this by great bounds, for during the times of Madasa, only one of their order was in continual accompaniment of Urithiru and its thrones. Their spren was understood to be specific, and to persuade them to grow to the magnitude of the other orders was seen as seditious.

—From Words of Radiance” - chapter 44

[Slater he/him]

Bit of a necro, but I think this pretty much seals it as Dalinar's, plus the promise of answers is always salivating.

https://twitter.com/BrandSanderson/status/621453770816253952

 

So what questions do you want answered by this?

[Moogle]

Confirmed as Dalinar's indeed, as far as I can tell: https://twitter.com/BrandSanderson/status/621457007174746112

[Mestiv he/him]

So, Dalinar's done! https://twitter.com/BrandSanderson/status/621618209788047360

 

I'm very impressed with the speed his flashbacks were written! I know Brandon writes like a robot, but still