Types of Shardblade

[Phantom Monstrosity]

What's so specia about Szeths blade? It has all the traits of the other Shard. The only significal difference is that is has a much more different size. The size is probobly different because it's used in a different type of fighting? Big blades forces the wielder of use a certain arsenal of movements, while a smaller blade increases that arsenal but to the loss of the extra force.

The eye color change is temporary for Szeth - it isn't for the other shardblades we've seen.

[Cabbage]

The eye color change is temporary for Szeth - it isn't for the other shardblades we've seen.

Has it been confirmed to be the blade and not his powers?

[Meg]

Has it been confirmed to be the blade and not his powers?

 

 

 

It's in the book: 

 

The moment he summoned his Blade, his eyes would turn from dark green to pale—almost glowing—sapphire, a unique effect of his particular weapon.

 

TWoK Interlude 3 

[Cabbage]

It's in the book: 

 

 

TWoK Interlude 3 

Thank you.

[Elwynn]

The eye color change is temporary for Szeth - it isn't for the other shardblades we've seen.

 

 

Whoa whoa whoa, we've seen? I realize it's entirely possible, but at this point it's just rumor and legend right? Disregarding any KR we see in Dalinar's visions (because things obviously worked differently back then), I'm pretty sure this is not confirmed to be anything more than legend. But please point me in the right direction if I'm completely forgetting something.

[hoser he/him]

Whoa whoa whoa, we've seen? I realize it's entirely possible, but at this point it's just rumor and legend right? Disregarding any KR we see in Dalinar's visions (because things obviously worked differently back then), I'm pretty sure this is not confirmed to be anything more than legend. But please point me in the right direction if I'm completely forgetting something.

Umm. Lighteyes exist? Dalinar's eyes don't darken or change color when he sends his blade back (I think to the spiritual plane). 

 

There is theory suggesting that the eye color change relates to an SDNA change that could explain the link that allows one to retrieve the blades.  The retrieval part still works.  When Amaram took up the blade that Kaladin won, the gem on the blade is described as flashing, which seems to correspond to establishing the link. 

 

Is there some evidence that this works differently now?  There is speculation that Odium has corrupted Shardblades somehow, but the only evidence I'm aware of in support is Syl's antipathy.  If Odium did change the blades, I would think he would want to be subtle about it and not change something obvious if it could be avoided. 

 

I believe the current lighteyes include the descendents of those who picked up the weapons from Feverstone Keep (and maybe elsewhere).  I wonder whether they also include the descendants of the Radiants.  There is obviously alot of experience from that time forward. People have also won blades over time moving forward.  If it had changed, it would have been noteworthy. 

 

Also, radiantblades are not described as changing peoples eye color, just lightening it.  In particular, they are not described as changing it to the color associated with certain other radiant abilities that Szeth just happens to be able to use. 

 

If radiantblades changed eye color, whenever a hereditary lighteyes picked up a sword that was different than the one his ancester had used, wouldn't their eye color change unless the two swords changed the eyes to the same color?  I think we would have seen it with Amaram when he picked up the sword Kaladin won. 

 

It seems like there is much more evidence than just rumor and legend.  People know how this works, and are using these swords everyday.  I think Brandon is hanging this Chekhovian cannon in plain sight. 

[Elwynn]

I've been contemplating what to say because, just wow...don't know where we got lost in translation, but the original stuff explaining it is at the bottom, and I'll just go through it all because I already hit the multiquote.

 

Umm. Lighteyes exist? Dalinar's eyes don't darken or change color when he sends his blade back (I think to the spiritual plane).

I just...I can't even begin to understand what you thought I wrote. Lol Yes, those are both common knowledge things.

 

There is theory suggesting that the eye color change relates to an SDNA change that could explain the link that allows one to retrieve the blades.  The retrieval part still works.  When Amaram took up the blade that Kaladin won, the gem on the blade is described as flashing, which seems to correspond to establishing the link. 

I didn't reference anything outside of the book. No theory needed for what I was trying to say. Yes, the gem flashed, but Amaram was already a lighteyes.

 

Is there some evidence that this works differently now?  There is speculation that Odium has corrupted Shardblades somehow, but the only evidence I'm aware of in support is Syl's antipathy.  If Odium did change the blades, I would think he would want to be subtle about it and not change something obvious if it could be avoided. 

No evidence needed. Has nothing to do (with what we know at this point) with whether it's Odium or Honor or Cultivation. Original intention or mucked up messyness afterwards.

 

I believe the current lighteyes include the descendents of those who picked up the weapons from Feverstone Keep (and maybe elsewhere).  I wonder whether they also include the descendants of the Radiants.  There is obviously alot of experience from that time forward. People have also won blades over time moving forward.  If it had changed, it would have been noteworthy. 

That's fine if you believe that. But it's not confirmed at this point and still has nothing to do with what I was trying to say.

 

Also, radiantblades are not described as changing peoples eye color, just lightening it.  In particular, they are not described as changing it to the color associated with certain other radiant abilities that Szeth just happens to be able to use. 

I have no idea what radiantblades actually do. I was referring to the belief that Shardblades do, in fact, change your eye color. As is the common thoughts of several characters in the book. My point was that we have never actually seen this happen.

 

If radiantblades changed eye color, whenever a hereditary lighteyes picked up a sword that was different than the one his ancester had used, wouldn't their eye color change unless the two swords changed the eyes to the same color?  I think we would have seen it with Amaram when he picked up the sword Kaladin won. 

Lol I just can't even follow what you're trying to express here. I'm not theorizing with you, I don't believe hereditary qualites from former Radiants have anything to do with this.

 

It seems like there is much more evidence than just rumor and legend.  People know how this works, and are using these swords everyday.  I think Brandon is hanging this Chekhovian cannon in plain sight. 

 

 

I just...really have absolutely no clue what you're responding to.

 

Let me put the original quote I responded to.

The eye color change is temporary for Szeth - it isn't for the other shardblades we've seen.

 

The post I responded to suggested that we had actually seen someone pick up a Shardblade and have their eyes permanently change to a lighteyes. As is the myth with at least the culture of Alethkar; That if a darkeyes wins a Shardblade they will permanently become a lighteyes. Like Laral wanted Kal to do so they could marry when they got older.

 

I was stating that we don't ever actually see any of this. That at this point it is just myth and legend to give darkeyes some hope. As opposed to actually seeing Szeth's eyes change and then revert back.

 

Sorry for the long post going through everything, just obviously didn't phrase my post very well and wanted to be clear about what I was actually saying/asking.

[hoser he/him]

I've been contemplating what to say because, just wow...don't know where we got lost in translation, ...

 

I was stating that we don't ever actually see any of this. That at this point it is just myth and legend to give darkeyes some hope. As opposed to actually seeing Szeth's eyes change and then revert back.

 

Sorry for the long post going through everything, just obviously didn't phrase my post very well and wanted to be clear about what I was actually saying/asking.

Hmm.  Oops.  It seems like I missed something.  Sorry.

 

You are saying:

1. We have not actually seen a darkeye pick up a radiantblade and their eyes lightened. 

 

And you are suggesting:

2a. When a darkeyes picks up a radiantblade, their eye will not change color.

or

2b. When a darkeyes picks up a radiantblade, their eye will change color temporarily, because all radiantblades work like Szeth's.

or

2c. When a darkeyes picks up a radiantblade we have no idea what will happen, because it has been so long since it last happened and the whole idea of the eyes changing is probably propaganda. 

or

2d.  Something else entirely, and I should stick to martian, because I just suck at english. 

Edited April 24, 2013 by hoser

[Cheese Ninja he/him]

Basically, all Elwynn is saying that we can't be sure.  This whole thing would be settled if Dalinar had just bothered to note what happened to eye color when people picked up the Shardblades during his vision of Feverstone Keep and the Recreance.  I think the characters are correct about the act of claiming a Shardblade lightening eyecolor, but it's true we don't have any first-hand accounts, just stories with a great deal of belief behind them.  

 

Hoser was actually saying that the fact that Lighteyes exist at all is proof of Shardblades lightening eyecolor, in the past, and then carrying that effect onto the descendants.  I agree with that, but it's also possible to argue that lighteyes have always existed, and that there simply was no reason to distinguish them separately in the past.  Hoser also thought that Elwynn was saying that Szeth's shardblade eyecolor change was typical, which isn't something Elwynn ever actually said.  That's why he made that confusing line about eyecolor changing for Lighteyes if they pick up a different Shardblade from what their ancestor had in the past.

 

Basically, Elwynn isn't theorizing, and just stating facts in a long and confusing way, and hoser is theorizing, and stating facts and theories in confusing ways.

 

All that aside:

I wonder if there are different rules for Surgebinders, could their pre-existing Nahel bond prevent the eyecolor change?  It would be interesting if later in the series Kaladin gets a Plate and Blade, and it confuses everyone when his eyes don't change color.

Edited April 24, 2013 by Cheese Ninja

[hoser he/him]

...hoser is theorizing, and stating facts and theories in confusing ways.

 

All that aside:

I wonder if there are different rules for Surgebinders, could their pre-existing Nahel bond prevent the eyecolor change?  It would be interesting if later in the series Kaladin gets a Plate and Blade, and it confuses everyone when his eyes don't change color.

I resemble that first remark. 

 

In chapter 28, Adolin discusses witnessing a Shardbearer being taken down by a lighteyed archer.  So Shardbearers do fall.  Why did Brandon have him fall to a lighteyes?  It does seem suspicious.  Maybe Elwynn is on to something . 

 

The rest of this is probably violent agreement...

 

If lighteyes and darkeyes always existed and radiantblades made no difference, then:

• Why did it start to make a difference?
• Why does Brandon make such a big thing of it?  It would be a huge non-sequitur.  Brandon doesn't need to make the books bigger.
• Why does Brandon make a point that the Radiants' eyes were so light that they were almost white in the Feverstone Keep vision?

 

As for the aside: 

I don't think so for three reasons:

• If beginning Radiants automatically got Blades and Plate, then Kaladin would have them already.
• If advanced Radiants get Blades and Plate, then they already have a relationship with a spren of a workable type and nobody's eyes would change color.
• The eye color change is really an effect of changes to the SDNA.  If Kaladin becomes a Radiant with Blade and Plate, his SDNA will undergo the same changes as the others and lighten. 

The question I have is:

If Kaladin continues to refuse a Blade, but becomes a five-oath windrunner, will his eyes lighten anyway?

 

Hopefully less confusing ...  It comes out much better in martian. 

 

Edited: add information about Chapter 28. 

Edited April 24, 2013 by hoser

[Cheese Ninja he/him]

I agree that you "resemble that first remark", but I think you meant "I resent that first remark".

 

Actually it was from an Adolin viewpoint (chapter 28):

They’d found only two reliable ways to defeat the Parshendi. The first was to use a Shardblade. Effective, but of limited application. The Kholin army had only two Blades, and while Shards were incredibly powerful, they needed proper support. An isolated, outnumbered Shardbearer could be tripped and toppled by his adversaries. In fact, the one time Adolin had seen a full Shardbearer fall to a regular soldier, it had happened because he had been swarmed by spearmen who broke his breastplate. Then a lighteyed archer had slain him from fifty paces, winning the Shards for himself. Not exactly a heroic end.

It was a lighteyed archer though, so no help to us.

 

I agree with you on the whole "lighteyes as leaders" origin thing, and I don't have even any good arguments against, so I can't even play devil's advocate.

 

I don't think beginning Radiants usually got Blades and Plates, I think that those were given either as the reward for full Radianthood (All 5 Oaths) or at some point along the path to being a KR.  I think the glowiness and glyphs on the Plate were the result of the Plate and Blade being included in the Radiant/Spren Nahel bond, which probably isn't possible until at least the 3rd Oath.

 

Couldn't the Radiant in Dalinar's vision have been holding Stormlight, instead of it being an effect of having had a Shardblade?  (A Highway to the Sun, Chapter 52) "His eyes were of the palest blue. Unnaturally so, in fact—the irises were nearly white." It was the same way in Dalinar's vision in Starfalls (Chapter 19).  "The woman had light tan eyes that almost seemed to glow in the night, and she wore no helm."  "The Shardbearer stood with his Blade resting on his armored shoulder, and he inspected Dalinar with eyes of such bright blue, they were almost white. Were those eyes actually glowing, leaking Stormlight?"  I thought that Kaladin's eyes glowed if he was holding Stormlight as well, but I can't find a quote from the book to confirm this.

[Senor Feesh]

I agree that you "resemble that first remark", but I think you meant "I resent that first remark".

 

I suspect that was a deliberate Malapropism, a lá Foghorn Leghorn

[hoser he/him]

I suspect that was a deliberate Malapropism, a lá Foghorn Leghorn

Foghorn Leghorn.  Is that where that is from?  Does he still exist or are we both old?  I liked using "violent agreement" too (oxymoronic malapropism). 

 

Couldn't the Radiant in Dalinar's vision have been holding Stormlight, instead of it being an effect of having had a Shardblade?

Well, I know nothing.  My interpretation of what Brandon is trying to tell us is that high level radiants have extremely light eyes.  I think the backstory is that some combination of the 5 oaths and advanced use of the blades and plate makes more extensive changes to the SDNA which is shown by the extremely light eyes.  YMMV

Edited April 24, 2013 by hoser

[deddinty]

  I thought that Kaladin's eyes glowed if he was holding Stormlight as well, but I can't find a quote from the book to confirm this.

 

The quote you're looking for is in Chapter 38, Envisager:

Kaladin's eyes snapped open, and they leaked light too, faintly colored amber.

 

It's also interesting to note that the two Windrunners we've seen through Dalinar's visions both had blue eyes, while Kaladin's are described as amber. Szeth's eyes go blue as well, and he has windrunner like abilities.  I want to know if the color is based on the order/type of surgebinding power or if it's based on natural eye color with light coming through.

 

I assumed that the light eyes were a combination of holding Stormlight and use of a blade/plate.  But I also wonder if other types of surgebinders and thus Radiants infuse Stormlight the way Windrunners do, or if they have other methods of using their powers.  The second option seems more likely to me, in light of seeing Shallan and Jasnah's soulcasting, as well as looking at information in the Ars Arcanum.

 

Since we've only seen Windrunners and Stonewards so far, I don't want to make any assumptions that infusing as Kaladin does is the reason for the light eyes, or if the blades/plates are the reason.  My own opinion is that the plate/blade and Radiant Oaths create the permanent eye change, instead of the temporary change we see in Kaladin.  (Szeth is probably different though, so I won't bring him up here with his blade changing his eyes.)

Edited April 25, 2013 by deddinty

[Elwynn]

First, thank you so much for laying that out plainly Cheese, I hereby name you official, 'I say I say,' official transistor for completely dumbfounded and confused sharders. (Meh, wanted to get in on the mala fun, but I suck at humor.  )

 

All that aside:

I wonder if there are different rules for Surgebinders, could their pre-existing Nahel bond prevent the eyecolor change? It would be interesting if later in the series Kaladin gets a Plate and Blade, and it confuses everyone when his eyes don't change color.

 

I actually used to lean pretty heavily on this ideal, that something was different/had been changed and Kaladin was going to defy everything and keep his darkeyes. But that was shortly after finishing it and I've since began to think that...

 

My interpretation of what Brandon is trying to tell us is that high level radiants have extremely light eyes.

 

...It might have to do with the level of oaths a KR has spoken. I think I put some ideas about that in a theory I wrote a long time ago. But it could also have to do with something like long enough time periods of holding stormlight, like a poisoning of stormlight over time.

 

Aren't blue eyed Windrunners the only ones we see with unnaturally blue/almost white and glowing, leaking stormlight? I'm going to have to check that.

 

Basically for me, I've passed for the time being on Shardblades being responsible for making the eyes lighter, there might be some weird combo with Plate that will make it happen, but I think other things might play a bigger role in it. Actually, Szeth's Blade is pretty much the only thing that keeps me thinking about it, and we already know his Blade is an anomaly, very different from the other Blades we've seen.

[Isomere]

Theory: shardblades represent the condensed physical aspect of either Odium, Honor or Cultivation. (or a mixture). Odium based Shardblades function similar to a Stormgem for trapping Spren of very large Investiture.  Honor based blades form a symbiotic relationship with the Knight Radiant's Spren. 

 

Most shardblades are empty shells with no trapped spren. A soulcaster that can create any element is a trapped Cryptic or JasnahSpren. Szeth attracted an Honorspren with his honorable actions, but trapped it in an Odium Shardblade.