teknopathetic he/him Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Ruin had the clear goal of ending all things. He wanted to create a world devoid of the life he and preservation had created. His goal was easy to understand. Odium wants to (likely) murder all the other shards. But, look at Sel. Sel lost two shards. You'd think there would be massive devastation on a scale similar to Shadows for Silence, but the people of Sel seem mostly unaffected. Odium 's hatred scars aren't fully visible on Sel. Doesn't that seem odd? The only remnants of his hatred maybe would be Elantris being empty, and the shu'darath religious scism. But - that's not nearly as bad as a full-blown completed desolation. So what gives? Why does Odium want to obliterate Roshar when Sel was (seemingly) left fully functional? Is it personal? Has Odium given into his intent more so now than in Sel? And why is Odium acting so much like Ruin these days? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Well, he can't leave Roshar for one. He would rather not invest if he had the option, but well . . . yeah, not happening anymore. Dammit Honor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamEternal Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 He wants to destroy all other shards as fast as possible, before arises sonething that can stop him, like a double shard with an intent that doens't enforce non-intervention. Maybe after he destroys them he will make the cosmere his personal damnation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgedancer he/him Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Right now his goal is probably to escape from the prision Honor put him into and if he can take the chance to kill every single thing on Roshar with his Desolations, why pass up the chance? Otherwise, I'm not sure if Odium even has an ultimate goal. Given his intent it's safe to assume he hates just about everything that isn't himself, so wheter he has an end goal or just wants to get rid of everything that's a danger to him first and then just make the world suffer, we don't really know but no matter what his "plan" is it's bad for the Cosmere at large. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Odium wants to (likely) murder all the other shards. But, look at Sel. Sel lost two shards. You'd think there would be massive devastation on a scale similar to Shadows for Silence, but the people of Sel seem mostly unaffected. Odium 's hatred scars aren't fully visible on Sel. Doesn't that seem odd? The only remnants of his hatred maybe would be Elantris being empty, and the shu'darath religious scism. But - that's not nearly as bad as a full-blown completed desolation. So what gives? Why does Odium want to obliterate Roshar when Sel was (seemingly) left fully functional? Is it personal? Has Odium given into his intent more so now than in Sel? And why is Odium acting so much like Ruin these days? Odium was on Sel a LONG time ago, so long ago that knowledge of the original Elantrians was completely forgotten and Seons are considered normal. So that means that Odium came, Shattered Devotion and Dominion, left, over time the Seons became self-aware, and then Seons became normal (not sure if Seons became self-aware before or after Elantris was rediscovered). So Sel was likely devastated by Odium, but over thousands of years the scars have faded and the Seons have carried on their Shards intent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Honor Spren she/her Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 He wants to destroy all other shards as fast as possible, before arises sonething that can stop him, like a double shard with an intent that doens't enforce non-intervention. Maybe after he destroys them he will make the cosmere his personal damnation. Does anyone else think that if someone is going to stop Odium, it will be harmony(a.k.a. Sazed)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Does anyone else think that if someone is going to stop Odium, it will be harmony(a.k.a. Sazed)? I suspect Harmony will do it, but also that Ruin alone would have been capable but it would have been one heck of a fight. Maybe the reason Odium never came to Scadrial is that Preservation would have worked to Preserve Ruin, making for a virtually unwinnable fight for Odium. As for why Odium has won so far, look at the Intent of the Shattered Shards: Devotion, not big on death/destruction; Dominion, would rather Dominate or even be Dominated by Odium, it is possible he offered to serve Odium; Honor, was more worried about saving his people on Roshar than about fighting Odium directly, so he trapped Odium in an attempt to save Roshar. Who else has been Shattered? I can't remember. Of the remaining Shards we've got: Cultivation, maybe capable of small destructions if it will help things grow; Endowment, not a particularly destructive Intent; Preservation, INCAPABLE of destruction of any type; and Ruin, concentrated, intelligent, destruction/division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arook he/him Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) There is WoB I believe that Odium wants to be the only shard. As for Sel the Elantrian were not created until after the shattering of Devotion and Dominion. From what I can tell Sel has one type of magic it should have three. What Elantrians do would not be possible before the shattering. shards shattered by odium: Dominion Devotion Honor one unknown shard INTERVIEW: Mar 16th, 2012 A "Late-Breaking" Report (Paraphrased) BRANDON SANDERSON (PARAPHRASED)Odium wants to be the only Shard. Odium could pick up other Shards if he wants to, but, he doesn't want to. His Shard is a good match for his personality and he doesn't want to be influenced by another Shard. INTERVIEW: Nov 29th, 2014 Idaho Falls Signing Report - leiftinspace (Verbatim) LEIFTINSPACECan you write in one of my books about something we don;t know about the Shards, or at least one of the Shards? BRANDON SANDERSONOdium has killed at least one more Shard than the ones we know about. Edited June 5, 2015 by Arook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindrunnerRadiant he/him Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 I suspect Harmony will do it, but also that Ruin alone would have been capable but it would have been one heck of a fight. Maybe the reason Odium never came to Scadrial is that Preservation would have worked to Preserve Ruin, making for a virtually unwinnable fight for Odium. As for why Odium has won so far, look at the Intent of the Shattered Shards: Devotion, not big on death/destruction; Dominion, would rather Dominate or even be Dominated by Odium, it is possible he offered to serve Odium; Honor, was more worried about saving his people on Roshar than about fighting Odium directly, so he trapped Odium in an attempt to save Roshar. Who else has been Shattered? I can't remember. Of the remaining Shards we've got: Cultivation, maybe capable of small destructions if it will help things grow; Endowment, not a particularly destructive Intent; Preservation, INCAPABLE of destruction of any type; and Ruin, concentrated, intelligent, destruction/division. It is safe to assume Harmony could destroy Odium in a heartbeat simply due to the fact the two > one. We know Odium is terrified of Harmony too, so he knows Harmony could destroy him. But that doesn't mean Harmony will. He has a hard enough time just traveling to another world because of the conflict of the two intents in him. He has a hard time taking any action, plus he generally wants to let people do things on their own, offering a little aid here and there. If he ever does decide to destroy Odium, he certainly could, but the difficulty is getting himself to act. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 There is WoB I believe that Odium wants to be the only shard. As for Sel the Elantrian were not created until after the shattering of Devotion and Dominion. From what I can tell Sel has one type of magic it should have three. What Elantrians do would not be possible before the shattering. shards shattered by odium: Dominion Devotion Honor one unknown shard The city of Elantris existed before the Elantrians, suggesting there was a prior Aon-capable civilization. What's your basis for 3 magic systems? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arook he/him Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) This is a Quote I found on theory land http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1038#5 QUESTIONFeruchemy is the "balance" between Ruin and Preservation. Would any combination of Shards create a "balance" magic, so to speak, or are only certain Shards compatible?BRANDON SANDERSON Feruchemy ended up being a balance system, because of how polar Ruin and Preservation were. Any world with at least two Shards will result in a similar phenomenon.QUESTIONLike Roshar?BRANDON SANDERSONLike Roshar. There is something like that going on there. This talks about Sel and how it only stuff works there http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/4290-heres-some-late-stuff/#entry67401 and this WINDRUNNER17 ()Why does Scadrial, which has two Shards, only have three manifestations of investiture, (Allomancy, Feruchemy, and Hemalurgy) but Sel, also with two Shards, has five manifestations of investiture (AonDor, Dakhor, ChayShan, Forgery, and Bloodsealing)?BRANDON SANDERSONSel's magics are much more regionalized than Scadrial's. Each area has its own manifestation, but they're all actually the same magic. So really there is one magic on Sel—much as Windrunning and Lightweaving on Roshar are kind of different magics, but also kind of the same.source http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=979 BRANDON SANDERSONThe Seons existed before the earthquake.MI'CHELLEBut was the earthquake caused by Odium?BRANDON SANDERSONWhen Odium visited there were no Seons. SOURCE http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=618 Edit added one twice And this INTERVIEW: Sep 24th, 2013 Interview with Brandon Sanderson - Chris King (Miyabi) (Verbatim)CHRIS KING (MIYABI)There are only a few more: Did seons exist when the Aonic peoples discovered Elantris?BRANDON SANDERSON When the Aonic peoples discovered Elantris… did seons exist… Okay let me go back to my timeline... It kind of means you have to define what you mean by Aonic. The problem is if you dig back too far in history it's kind of like asking "What’s a German?" You know what I mean?CHRIS KING (MIYABI)Because the Aons are based upon Elantris itself and so they don't become Aonic until they are writing the Aons. BRANDON SANDERSONAnd Aonic is also—You are talking about the people and so it's like are the Normans Brits? Or are they Vikings? Or are they Frenchman?CHRIS KING (MIYABI)Why don’t we phrase it as the people of Sel when they discovered Elantris.BRANDON SANDERSONNo, no, that’s getting, okay— Let's go ahead and RAFO that one, just because the history of Elantris is very interesting to the cosmere. When people are starting to get an inkling of that.CHRIS KING (MIYABI)Odium was there once upon a time. i thought i had a diffrent one but this is good too WINDRUNNERIs the Dor made up of both Devotion and Dominion's power?BRANDON SANDERSONThe Dor's nature, and why it acts as it does, is in part related to this question. all this leads me to the conclusion that when 2 shattered powers of a shard are mixed they change the way the shards interact with the planet to create magic somewhere in theory land there is a quote saying that what elantrians do now would not have been possible before Edited June 5, 2015 by Arook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 It is safe to assume Harmony could destroy Odium in a heartbeat simply due to the fact the two > one. We know Odium is terrified of Harmony too, so he knows Harmony could destroy him. But that doesn't mean Harmony will. He has a hard enough time just traveling to another world because of the conflict of the two intents in him. He has a hard time taking any action, plus he generally wants to let people do things on their own, offering a little aid here and there. If he ever does decide to destroy Odium, he certainly could, but the difficulty is getting himself to act. Theoretically, if Harmony ever just drops his shard and someone in the know takes it though, Odium is probably screwed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 It is safe to assume Harmony could destroy Odium in a heartbeat simply due to the fact the two > one. We know Odium is terrified of Harmony too, so he knows Harmony could destroy him. But that doesn't mean Harmony will. He has a hard enough time just traveling to another world because of the conflict of the two intents in him. He has a hard time taking any action, plus he generally wants to let people do things on their own, offering a little aid here and there. If he ever does decide to destroy Odium, he certainly could, but the difficulty is getting himself to act. Over time, the Ruin intent is going to overwhelm the Preservation intent because of the small amount extra that Leras gave from Preservation to make Scadrians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arook he/him Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 Over time, the Ruin intent is going to overwhelm the Preservation intent because of the small amount extra that Leras gave from Preservation to make Scadrians. I don't think that's how it works the two are now one I believe there is only the harmony intent now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter he/him Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 I don't think that's how it works the two are now one I believe there is only the harmony intent now No Sazed still has to contend with two polar opposite intents. That said there are indications that Sazed is doing "something" with the excess Ruin in order to remain balanced. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 I don't think that's how it works the two are now one I believe there is only the harmony intent now I mis-remembered this. There is an imbalance, though. RAGS How is Harmony balanced when a part of Preservation's power is expended on human sentience? Isn't that what caused all the trouble to begin with? BRANDON SANDERSON Indeed. Hm... What could Sazed be doing with that extra power Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arook he/him Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 That does work well with how I think things on Sel works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 There is WoB I believe that Odium wants to be the only shard. As for Sel the Elantrian were not created until after the shattering of Devotion and Dominion. From what I can tell Sel has one type of magic it should have three. What Elantrians do would not be possible before the shattering. shards shattered by odium: Dominion Devotion Honor one unknown shard Why would you think Sel has only one type of magic? I count at least four. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arook he/him Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 There are five by the way that we have seen AonDor, Dakhor, Forgery, Bloodsealing,and ChayShan( that martial art thing) All of these use the Dor which if I can find it is a combination of Dominion's and Devotion's powers. Having in part Dominion makes sense for each one being location specific. I just happen to have this up on theoryland. WINDRUNNER17 ()Why does Scadrial, which has two Shards, only have three manifestations of investiture, (Allomancy, Feruchemy, and Hemalurgy) but Sel, also with two Shards, has five manifestations of investiture (AonDor, Dakhor, ChayShan, Forgery, and Bloodsealing)? BRANDON SANDERSON Sel's magics are much more regionalized than Scadrial's. Each area has its own manifestation, but they're all actually the same magic. So really there is one magic on Sel—much as Windrunning and Lightweaving on Roshar are kind of different magics, but also kind of the same. Source: http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=979 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Honor Spren she/her Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 (edited) I mis-remembered this. There is an imbalance, though. RAGS How is Harmony balanced when a part of Preservation's power is expended on human sentience? Isn't that what caused all the trouble to begin with? BRANDON SANDERSON Indeed. Hm... What could Sazed be doing with that extra power Do you think he is making more atium with the stuff, and that's what The Lost Metal is about? Edited June 6, 2015 by The Honor Spren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Honor Spren she/her Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 I mis-remembered this. There is an imbalance, though. RAGS How is Harmony balanced when a part of Preservation's power is expended on human sentience? Isn't that what caused all the trouble to begin with? BRANDON SANDERSON Indeed. Hm... What could Sazed be doing with that extra power I mis-remembered this. There is an imbalance, though. RAGS How is Harmony balanced when a part of Preservation's power is expended on human sentience? Isn't that what caused all the trouble to begin with? BRANDON SANDERSON Indeed. Hm... What could Sazed be doing with that extra power Do you think he is making more atium with the stuff, and that's what The Lost Metal is about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unhinged he/him Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 Do you think he is making more atium with the stuff, and that's what The Lost Metal is about? That seems the most likely theory, that he's venting off the excess energy as Atium in order to keep himself in balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paragrin she/her Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 I would like to point you to this: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/15676-kelsiers-return/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 That seems the most likely theory, that he's venting off the excess energy as Atium in order to keep himself in balance. Partly supported by the fact that the one bag of atium Marsh picked up from that kandra isn't likely able to maintain his lifespan for as long as he probably intends to stick around. A large portion of it would have to go towards metalmind forging, unless he had spikes made of the stuff to begin with for storing (unlikely). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 Partly supported by the fact that the one bag of atium Marsh picked up from that kandra isn't likely able to maintain his lifespan for as long as he probably intends to stick around. A large portion of it would have to go towards metalmind forging, unless he had spikes made of the stuff to begin with for storing (unlikely). Marsh pulled spike(s) from the various Inquisitors Vin killed at Kredick Shaw, including an Atium-storing one. http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=708$#8 ZAS678 (REDDIT.COM)Why on earth does Marsh have a Feruchemical Atium Spike? You've said that Ironeyes is in fact Marsh. Did Ruin spike someone for him? Or did Sazed grant him the power? BRANDON SANDERSON (REDDIT.COM)Dead inquisitors Vin killed. Some were granted the spike for reasons I haven't spoken of yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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