Stormlight 2 Title

[Cheese Ninja he/him]

The old "which Rosharian has the potential to learn Lightweaving" discussion... It takes on more significance now that we know there's an order of KA called Lightweavers. I always favored Sigzil, since I thought there must be some reason Hoid chose to apprentice him, when he has pretty much all of existence available in which to choose apprentices from.

Also, I feel like the access to the Transformation Surge is too significant for Jasnah and Shallan's Orders to not somehow reference it in the names of those two Orders. Soulcasters seem like a pretty big deal after all.

Someone earlier mentioned that it would be fun to see Shallan apprenticed under Shalash. I'm just imagining Shallan always trying to stop her from destroying valuable pieces of art depicting herself and supplying Shalash with a constant supply of sketches to destroy in various ways, and Shalash forcing Shallan to adopt new mediums of artwork once Shalash gets bored of ripping up and burning paper. Or requesting absurd artwork from Shallan: "Draw one of me riding a chasmfiend, while juggling torches and knives blindfolded." and then destroying it.

[Takeshi]

Also, I feel like the access to the Transformation Surge is too significant for Jasnah and Shallan's Orders to not somehow reference it in the names of those two Orders. Soulcasters seem like a pretty big deal after all.

I'm 90% confident that the name of each order includes their respective essence (Zephyr = Wind, Talus = Stone), so Lightweavers would be the name for Lucentia's order. Perhaps, using the two Rosharan surges of the Lightweavers together mimics LIghtweaving as it is known on Yolen. It's just that on Roshar, Lightweaving can be split into two abilities.

[Glaring at the Survivor he/him]

Is the Transformstion thing actually a power-like thing (excuse me if I know none of these terms, I have a horrible memory) that is Shallans, or is it a Spren, like with Kal.

I like the title of the book, and the possible-but-unlikely one for book five and the one for book three—which is my favorite.

[Morsk he/him]

There's long been difficulty over how to reconcile Jasnah as #2 and Shallan as #6; one or the other has to budge, so they can be next to each other and share Soulcasting. I see the (old, proposed) book title of Lightweaver as a small evidence that Shallan budges and Jasnah keeps her #2.

Of course it's very difficult either way, since they fit #2 and #6 so well. My case for Shallan as Brave/Obedient is that her creativity is a personal gift, not a moral virtue, so it's a red herring. She creates pretty pictures, not solutions to people's problems. Bravery is the main virtue she exemplifies in the story, and obedience is what she struggles with and learns to accept. (Oh! Also, "Shallan's first apprenticeship" which someone else mentioned. This character is going through multiple apprenticeships. Obedience is a major theme!)

Some lesser, suggestive arguments are that Creative/Honest is the best fit for Navani as an inventor, and that makes it "taken" for major characters and Shallan won't get it. And I actually think Shallan / Shash and the red hair / Blood / garnet thing are arguments against #6, because it makes her such a stereotype that Brandon would've renamed her or changed her hair color to tone it down. Less sure about the last part, because Brandon liked stereotypical names in Elantris, and didn't mind making some of the Mistings stereotypes in Mistborn.

Edited March 6, 2013 by Morsk

[Smidge]

There's long been difficulty over how to reconcile Jasnah as #2 and Shallan as #6; one or the other has to budge, so they can be next to each other and share Soulcasting. I see the (old, proposed) book title of Lightweaver as a small evidence that Shallan budges and Jasnah keeps her #2. :)/>/>

Of course it's very difficult either way, since they fit #2 and #6 so well. My case for Shallan as Brave/Obedient is that her creativity is a personal gift, not a moral virtue, so it's a red herring. She creates pretty pictures, not solutions to people's problems. Bravery is the main virtue she exemplifies in the story, and obedience is what she struggles with and learns to accept.

Some lesser, suggestive arguments are that Creative/Honest is the best fit for Navani as an inventor, and that makes it "taken" for major characters and Shallan won't get it. And I actually think Shallan / Shash and the red hair / Blood / garnet thing are arguments against #6, because it makes her such a stereotype that Brandon would've renamed her or changed her hair color to tone it down. Less sure about the last part, because Brandon liked stereotypical names in Elantris, and didn't mind making some of the Mistings stereotypes in Mistborn.

You are aware there's a mistake in the ars arcanum and #2's attribute should actually be just/confident and #5's learned/giving?

Edited March 6, 2013 by Smidge

[Morsk he/him]

You are aware there's a mistake in the ars arcanum and #2's attribute should actually be just/confident and #5's learned/giving?

Yes, and I think Jasnah exemplifies Just/Confident when she kills the men in the alley, and by being confident in her atheism while still being fair (just) to theists and not thinking they're all stupid. I don't like Learned/Giving for Jasnah. It's too gentle for her.

[Worldhopper he/him]

I agree, I don't think Shallan will be able to Lightweave, my money is also on Sigzil. I think because it was mentioned that WoR could possibly have been called Lightweaver people assume that its focused on Shallan and I know Brandon was considering titles that had something to do with her character, as it is essentially her book this time. But WoK's was Kalladin's book and Dalinar's on the cover and the title of the book relates to Dalinar's characters a bit more. So even though the books are based around the soul of one character, I don't think that the titles will always refer to them (at least not as directly). Even though Stones Unhallowed and Highprince of War both do relate to their intended core characters perfectly.

[Yemeth]

I don't really get whole "Jasnah is in order #2" theory. My problem with it is that Jasnah is shown to have two powers, Soulcasting and that lightning thing in the alley. Kaladin's two powers are Gravity (basic and reverse lashing) and Atmospheric Pressure (full lashing). If adjacent orders share one power, then Jasnah and Kaladin can't be in adjacent orders because they don't share a power. I don't see how the lightning could be a part of Soulcasting, since it was done at a distance and didn't involve transformation. And unless there are more powers in order #1 that we haven't seen yet, I don't know how those two could ever be adjacent.

While we don't know for sure what orders Jasnah and Shallan are in, we know they have to be next to each other because they share the Soulcasting power. And looking at combinations that are next to each other, Shalash and Palah is the best fit. While "Giving" might not seem like a primary Jasnah trait, Shallan was never very honest, she just needed to be honest to those spren to access her powers. I think it could be the same way with Jasnah, it's something she needs to do for a stronger connection to her powers. I could even interpret her killing those men in the alleyway as giving something more to Taravangian for being a gracious host.

When Shalash's order fits almost perfectly for Shallan, and Palah's fits very well for Jasnah, it's hard for me to come to any other conclusion. Brandon might pull a twist and show that they actually belonged in other less obvious orders, but that would mean that he planted a bunch of red herrings along the way to mislead us. And while I can see him doing that for a major plot point, for something like this (which we're hopefully going to find the answer to in Words of Radiance) I'd find it odd.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

. My problem with it is that Jasnah is shown to have two powers, Soulcasting and that lightning thing in the alley.

I'm not sure that the lightning isn't just part of soulcasting.

[FlashWrogan he/him]

Keep in mind guys that we don't know for sure that adjacent orders on the list are the ones that actually share powers. BS could have orded the list in some other way and it could be that shared powers go by orders 1 & 3, 2 & 4 etc

[Cheese Ninja he/him]

We have the interior illustration that show the symbols for the Radiant Orders and the Surges. Each Order is connected to two Surges, and adjacent Order is connected to one of the same Surges.

http://www.brandonsanderson.com/images/wok/tWoK_ENDSHEET-FRONT-1-webres.jpg

Nalan (Order 2) is only used in one chapter heading in a chapter that features Jasnah. Palah (Order 5) is used 12 times. Learned is probably the most suited attribute for Jasnah.

http://coppermind.net/wiki/The_Way_of_Kings/Headings

It makes sense to have Shallan as 6 and Jasnah as 5, and the Surge on the bottom center left of the picture would be Transformation.

[Meg]

You are aware there's a mistake in the ars arcanum and #2's attribute should actually be just/confident and #5's learned/giving?

I stumbled about this a few days before. Do you have some reference where it's stated that the two are interchanged in the Ars Arcanums in some editions?

[FlashWrogan he/him]

We have the interior illustration that show the symbols for the Radiant Orders and the Surges. Each Order is connected to two Surges, and adjacent Order is connected to one of the same Surges.

http://www.brandonsanderson.com/images/wok/tWoK_ENDSHEET-FRONT-1-webres.jpg

Nalan (Order 2) is only used in one chapter heading in a chapter that features Jasnah. Palah (Order 5) is used 12 times. Learned is probably the most suited attribute for Jasnah.

http://coppermind.net/wiki/The_Way_of_Kings/Headings

It makes sense to have Shallan as 6 and Jasnah as 5, and the Surge on the bottom center left of the picture would be Transformation.

I must have missed something somewhere. How do we know what faces and what symbol is paired with each number?

[Cheese Ninja he/him]

I stumbled about this a few days before. Do you have some reference where it's stated that the two are interchanged in the Ars Arcanums in some editions?

http://twg.17thshard.com/index.php?topic=7910.msg172869#msg172869

Peter's comment.

It's extra relevant, since it was given during a debate over what Order Jasnah most likely belonged to.

On a side note: Is anyone else looking forward to the Epilogue of Book 2? From Brandon's comments, I'm guessing someone pulls a Shardblade on Hoid (Or some 17th Sharder from Nalthis), and gets really confused when they find they can't cut his 'normal' sword (Actually a Nightblood-type blade) and/or clothing (Awakened). I'm wondering if Hoid will give them an explanation of Investiture, or just beat them up. I hope it's Sadeas, he already dislikes Hoid, and deserves to be taken down a few more pegs. Keep in mind, this is mostly speculation.

[Meg]

http://twg.17thshard.com/index.php?topic=7910.msg172869#msg172869

Peter's comment.

It's extra relevant, since it was given during a debate over what Order Jasnah most likely belonged to.

Thank you soooo much . The forum search didn't give me this (probably because it's in the TWG-archive).

[Yemeth]

On a side note: Is anyone else looking forward to the Epilogue of Book 2? From Brandon's comments, I'm guessing someone pulls a Shardblade on Hoid (Or some 17th Sharder from Nalthis), and gets really confused when they find they can't cut his 'normal' sword (Actually a Nightblood-type blade) and/or clothing (Awakened).

What comment? Was it recent, or something he said a while ago?

[Kurkistan he/him]

What comment? Was it recent, or something he said a while ago?

There's a link right there...

http://twg.17thshard.com/index.php?topic=7910.msg172869#msg172869

[Yemeth]

Sorry, I meant Brandon's comment about the epilogue of Book 2, not Peter's comment about the typo in the orders.

[Kurkistan he/him]

Sorry, I meant Brandon's comment about the epilogue of Book 2, not Peter's comment about the typo in the orders.

Ah, my bad. I'd thought you were quoting the wrong part of Cheese's post.

Cheese is just speculating there (and a relatively unrealistic piece of speculation at that ). The Prologue for WoR will almost certainly be released for free on Tor's website, which is what he's talking about.

Edited March 6, 2013 by Kurkistan

[Yemeth]

Ah, ok, I just interpreted that as Brandon mentioning something about the epilogue. Thanks for clearing that up.

[Senor Feesh]

Nalan (Order 2) is only used in one chapter heading in a chapter that features Jasnah. Palah (Order 5) is used 12 times. Learned is probably the most suited attribute for Jasnah.

http://coppermind.net/wiki/The_Way_of_Kings/Headings

It makes sense to have Shallan as 6 and Jasnah as 5, and the Surge on the bottom center left of the picture would be Transformation.

I agree with this in principle; however if we take Shallan and order 6 as a given (we don't have to, but as further evidence her first Soulcasting is into blood, which is the essence tied to Shash), then Jasnah could conceivably also be tied to Order 7 and Bettab (Wise, Careful).

I still think order 5 is more likely however, given the reasons by Cheese Ninja quoted above (just offering points for debate)

[Cheese Ninja he/him]

It's not that unrealistic a bit of speculation, and I do mean the epilogue, not the prologue.

Spoiler tagging for space reasons. Pay extra attention to the third Q&A.

Nemuri

Q: If a Shardblade was used on an awakened object, would it physically harm the object, destroy the Breath, or a combination of the two?

A:You will someday know.

ReaderAt2046

Q: What would happen if Nightblood and a Shardblade hit each other?

A: RAFO

mcalton2

Q: Hey Brandon,

Can we expect to see a fight between a Windrunner, an Awakener, and an Allomancer in one of the Stormlight books?

Thanks for the amazing books!

Matt

A: I've said before that it's unlikely that the Stormlight books will ever delve strongly into the connections between worlds. There will be some cool things happening for the cosmere-literate, but this series isn't focused on those concepts. I want it to maintain its plot cohesion for those who aren't aware of all of the behind-the-scenes stories.

Epilogue to Book Two should excite you, though.

Viper

Q: Hoid has a nugget of Lerasium and the Moon Scepter. Does he have a Breath?

Brandon Sanderson

A: It seems quite likely that he would.

Also, the Stormlight Archive takes place after Warbreaker, and since Nightblood is expected to take place shortly after Warbreaker, it's reasonable to guess that SA takes place after it as well. And if Yesteel is making swords like Nightblood, what better souvenir is there for Hoid to take home with him after he makes his mandated appearance in Nightblood? It could even be the fairly nondescript sword that he's carrying around in WoK.

Also, the first SA book epilogue was from Hoid's PoV. It might end up being a running theme. It's also possible that the 17th Sharders will catch up with him.

Edited March 7, 2013 by Cheese Ninja

[Kurkistan he/him]

It's not that unrealistic a bit of speculation, and I do mean the epilogue, not the prologue.

Also, the Stormlight Archive takes place after Warbreaker, and since Nightblood is expected to take place shortly after Warbreaker, it's reasonable to guess that SA takes place after it as well. And if Yesteel is making swords like Nightblood, what better souvenir is there for Hoid to take home with him after he makes his mandated appearance in Nightblood? It could even be the fairly nondescript sword that he's carrying around in WoK.

So I'm just batting 1000 today. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I hadn't recalled that Brandon quote.

[Windrunner he/him]

I'd be surprised if Hoid had a Nightblood-esque sword on him in any of the scenes we've seen. Nightblood's BioChromatic aura noticeably darkens and deepens the colors around him. This is an effect noticeable to even people without the First Hightening, so assuming that this hypothetical sword was created in a similar way to Nightblood, it would have been noticeable.

[Kurkistan he/him]

I'd be surprised if Hoid had a Nightblood-esque sword on him in any of the scenes we've seen. Nightblood's BioChromatic aura noticeably darkens and deepens the colors around him. This is an effect noticeable to even people without the First Hightening, so assuming that this hypothetical sword was created in a similar way to Nightblood, it would have been noticeable.

(While I don't think Hoid would have a Nightblood-esque sword (oh the wasted Breath!))

How very convenient that Wit wears all black, then...