Cactuschef Posted May 27, 2015 Posted May 27, 2015 I always assumed it was a strange choice of words. I think of it more like seeing the world differently, If someone say everything in negative colors or in x-ray. you wouldn't say they've "entered the world of the negative" or "the world of the X-ray". this analogy doesn't work though, because x-rays are still part of the physical world. the cognitive realm is another dimension of reality, not an invisible part the physical world.
Ari he/him Posted June 7, 2015 Posted June 7, 2015 (edited) I'm pretty sure part of the reason that "entering" Shadesmar is so dangerous is that on some level, you are physically going there. (Either that or your body is stored in the spiritual realm, as we know from Words of Radiance that Shallan didn't drown when she entered Shadesmar from her ship) So while your cognitive aspect, the flame, is always present in Shadesmar, when you enter, you are bringing some reflection of your physical aspect with you, and removing it from the physical realm. As for why Shadesmar is so easy to travel... because what might be a large natural obstacle in the physical realm is probably a solitary bead in Shadesmar. As long as you can get out of the oceans, Shadesmar is probably a very convenient place to travel within a world. (Brandon has hinted it has similar convenient properties for worldhopping on the old forums, but hasn't revealed them yet in any books.) edit: Found a relevant quote on it: http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1097#22 Shadesmar- you can WALK to the other planets. It's a pretty far ways away (at least days, if not more), but you can go to Shadesmar, walk in the directions where it says "The Expanse of the Vapors" and it runs into Scadrial . In Shadesmar all of that empty space doesn't really have any human interaction, so it doesn't really have an aspect in the cognitive realm, so all of that place gets shortened immensely. Whenever a planet has enough thinking life on it that's it’s considering it a planet, it drops into Shadesmar. Edited June 7, 2015 by Ari 1
Odium's_Shard Posted June 7, 2015 Posted June 7, 2015 Perhaps then for Travel and Worldhopping, you use your Cognitive aspect to plan and carry out your route, and then invoke your Surgebinding for example (presumably the Surges of Travel and Transformation allow you this power whereas other Surges do not) to bring your Physical self out of 'existence' either into the Spiritual or into the Cognitive (presumably similarly as how spren are pulled more fully into the Physical to act as Shardblades). Then, you can do this walking. Presumably though the way Shallan in in Shadesmar is different to how Jasnah is, to allow Jasnah to be able to Travel but Shallan to only Transform... or perhaps were Shallan to walk for these days she could 'Travel' in a limited sense, but Jasnah's Surge of Travel allows her to 'hop' in Shadesmar, re-imagine herself in another location as it were, so that she can Travel almost instantly (instead of taking days in Shadesmar). That way, if she knew the Cognitive makeup of a planet/location she could, as an analogy, close her eyes and imagine herself there, and in the Cognitive and with the right sDNA to give you the Investiture to make it so, it is made so. Presumably she cannot Travel to a place she knows nothing about? This might be suggested by the fact that Hoid knew where to wait for her to emerge, unless he was tracking her in Shadesmar (which if she had the ability to 'hop' would be less likely)... whereas Elantrians just invoke a distance and a direction, like a trajectory. 1
Arook he/him Posted June 7, 2015 Posted June 7, 2015 I don't think Hoid tracked her. If my understanding of her power is right it may not be like opening a door to the same location on the physical as the cognitive. Also Hoid is known to have knowledge of were things are happening at and that is the best answer for how Hoid found her.
dougpgc he/him Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 Sorry, I know this is kind of an old thread, but I've been thinking about this recently. I like skaa's thoughts about always being in all realms, and simply perceiving one realm more than the others at a given time. I also like this: I don't think of it as them moving their entire Physical aspect into the Cognitive and then moving it and putting it back, but I do think the fact that the Cognitive Realm being tied to location (but possibly not in the same way as the Physical) is essential (it can access this 'data'). The Spiritual not being tied to a location also makes sense, as your Spiritual reserves don't need to 'move' with you (your new Cognitive location can still access the Spiritual in the same way), and when you dispel your Shardblade it is accessed the same way, no matter your location. I'm still trying to visualize (if that's the right word) how physically traveling / moving your physical body would work, but it feels like these thoughts are going in the right direction. But now it's confusing to think about what Brandon posted on the recent AMA on Reddit: ________________ Q. is Hoid's home base a place that can only be accessed through Shadesmar? A. Hoid has a home base on Shadesmar, yes. ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ...So is Hoid "going" to the cognitive realm more than "shifting" to it? And if so, can someone's cognitive aspect visit the physical realm like their physical aspect can visit the cognitive realm? 2
hoidhunter he/him Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 (edited) quote: Shadesmar- you can WALK to the other planets. It's a pretty far ways away (at least days, if not more), but you can go to Shadesmar, walk in the directions where it says "The Expanse of the Vapors" and it runs into Scadrial . In Shadesmar all of that empty space doesn't really have any human interaction, so it doesn't really have an aspect in the cognitive realm, so all of that place gets shortened immensely. Whenever a planet has enough thinking life on it that's it’s considering it a planet, it drops into Shadesmar. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I wonder if/how the movement of planetary bodies influences travel between worlds via shadesmar. ie...if their physical orientation to your world correlates to the correct direction you would need to travel in order to get there. Or...for that matter...how you go about moving around in a vast 3 dimensional environment (space) using a largely 2 dimensional plane (shadesmar) for orientation... Edited January 6, 2016 by hoidhunter
Ari he/him Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 quote: Shadesmar- you can WALK to the other planets. It's a pretty far ways away (at least days, if not more), but you can go to Shadesmar, walk in the directions where it says "The Expanse of the Vapors" and it runs into Scadrial . In Shadesmar all of that empty space doesn't really have any human interaction, so it doesn't really have an aspect in the cognitive realm, so all of that place gets shortened immensely. Whenever a planet has enough thinking life on it that's it’s considering it a planet, it drops into Shadesmar. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I wonder if/how the movement of planetary bodies influences travel between worlds via shadesmar. ie...if their physical orientation to your world correlates to the correct direction you would need to travel in order to get there. Or...for that matter...how you go about moving around in a vast 3 dimensional environment (space) using a largely 2 dimensional plane (shadesmar) for orientation... I imagine location is close to analogous in the Cognitive to the Physical in places with sentience, and compressed everywhere else. I think of it the same way mass affects space to generate gravity- when you get enough "weight" of thought in the physical realm somewhere, it stretches the cognitive space out to be similarly large.
DreamEternal Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 Sorry, I know this is kind of an old thread, but I've been thinking about this recently. I like skaa's thoughts about always being in all realms, and simply perceiving one realm more than the others at a given time. I also like this: I'm still trying to visualize (if that's the right word) how physically traveling / moving your physical body would work, but it feels like these thoughts are going in the right direction. But now it's confusing to think about what Brandon posted on the recent AMA on Reddit: ________________ Q. is Hoid's home base a place that can only be accessed through Shadesmar? A. Hoid has a home base on Shadesmar, yes. ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ...So is Hoid "going" to the cognitive realm more than "shifting" to it? And if so, can someone's cognitive aspect visit the physical realm like their physical aspect can visit the cognitive realm? Actualy, he can still be shifting into it. The only difference between the two terms is that "shifting" describes better that the Cognitive is just another aspect if reality and you always have some presence in it.
natc Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 Turning matter with thoughts attached into nearly pure thought and back sounds really dangerous to be honest.
DreamEternal Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 (edited) Turning matter with thoughts attached into nearly pure thought and back sounds really dangerous to be honest.You don't turn your matter into thought if I understand right. You just shift your Realmatic presence so your Physical aspect interacts with the Cognitive aspect of reality and disappears from the Physical one.The "sea of beads" is how said reality of pure thought is perceived and interacts with your body. To use a simplier metaphor, it is an user interface of sorts. Edited January 6, 2016 by DreamEternal
dougpgc he/him Posted January 9, 2016 Posted January 9, 2016 (edited) Those are really good questions, hoidhunter.. I wonder if that involves perception somehow.. So if you can shift completely into the cognitive so your physical form isn't here physically, what does that look like to someone standing next to you in the physical realm? And then, can you do the same in reverse -- shift your cognitive aspect so your cognitive "you" is completely in the physical realm? Edited January 9, 2016 by dougpgc 1
DreamEternal Posted January 9, 2016 Posted January 9, 2016 (edited) Those are really good questions, hoidhunter.. I wonder if that involves perception somehow.. So if you can shift completely into the cognitive so your physical form isn't here physically, what does that look like to someone standing next to you in the physical realm? And then, can you do the same in reverse -- shift your cognitive aspect so your cognitive "you" is completely in the physical realm? The first, I'd guess you just disappear, since that is what the trasnportation surge is about.For the second, if it is even possible it will be very weird. What really confuses me about shadesmar, though, is that you can simply walk out of a supposedly spherical planet somehow. Edited January 9, 2016 by DreamEternal
Master_Moridin he/him Posted January 9, 2016 Posted January 9, 2016 (edited) What really confuses me about shadesmar, though, is that you can simply walk of a supposedly spherical planet somehow. It's probably not spherical in Shadesmar. To me it almost seems like Shadesmar (in terms of how it's spatially arranged) is a projection of the Physical realm. Everything sorta just...gets compressed onto a 2d plane, and the only real variations in vertical depth are a result of the varying thickness of the glass sphere layer. Edited January 9, 2016 by Master_Moridin
DreamEternal Posted January 9, 2016 Posted January 9, 2016 (edited) It's probably not spherical in Shadesmar.Which makes everything even weirder, because how is the especific projection determined?And how does shadesmar takes into acount the moviment of planets and star systems? Edited January 9, 2016 by DreamEternal
Stormgate he/him Posted January 9, 2016 Posted January 9, 2016 Sentient minds are what creates the Cognitive Realm. The Cognitive Realm in various areas likely roughly resembles the geography of the local Shardworld. As for the space between them, there are two explanations I can think of. One is that the Cognitive Realm is like a forum thread. The fewer ideas that are present, the smaller it is. The other is that the people who are aware of space travel might view the space between planets and stars like we do: there's nothing there. So there's nothing in the Cognitive Realm. To put it confusingly, nothing doesn't exist in the Cognitive Realm.
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