Long Game 12: Shadows of Elantris

[Wyrmhero he/him]

Don't worry Hreo. I am Wyrm here, and Kasimir is Kas here. I've been in the situation of a GM having to deal with changing names before... (which is also why we didn't exchange names too).

 

Okay, can someone please explain to me why Wyrm is accusing me of being the Gyorn?

 

Simple. I find you incredibly suspicious. Multiple times you have attempted to strategise in the thread about what the Gyorn would do, which to me sounds as though you're bouncing ideas off people in the thread just because you have no-one to do that with on your team. You've always covered it up with 'but why would I do exactly what I've just said if I was the Gyorn?' and my answer is 'because having just told us that, you expect suspicion to shift'. That is why I think you are specifically the Gyorn, rather than a Cultist.

 

You also kept talking about how boring it was on your side (of things) and that there was a lack of discussion coming your way. Well, discussion begins at home, and people who want discussion thrown their way seem to me to be Eliminators; it's incredibly easy to complain about discussion, but harder to generate it, so that strikes me as a cheap shot.

 

And then you've also voted for me as a response vote. That's not a helpful response. I cannot be the Gyorn as I am (almost 100%) confirmed to be a Dula with Kas's vote last Day Turn. I cannot be the Odiv, as I have not been converted. The only thing I could now be is one of the remaining Cultists. This is possible, but unlikely - There have been no paired deaths due to Lovers so far. Either I'm playing a very long game, or I am quite simply innocent. So either your vote is just reactionary, designed to confuse, or you haven't been paying the greatest attention, which seems wrong considering you asked for more discussion and have been making strategies.

 

For all these reasons, and potentially more, I am accusing you of being the Gyorn, Jain.

Edited June 11, 2015 by Wyrmhero

[Kasimir he/him]

Wyrm and I corresponded in a PM (uh yeah, probably explains the obvious hijinks, right?) so I generally share the reasons he's provided [edit: with regard to Jain] as we spent the night discussing suspicions and killing Hreo's and Tulir's inboxes.
 
So instead:
 

Karlin looked up from his hefty book on Jin trading. Was it just him or did another of the court just transform. Not the normal complete transformation that was socially acceptable in court but a strange ethereal type that appeared to change the persons complete being.
 
Nah it was probably just the lighting 
 
(welcome Silverblade)

Good Ser Wolf, I'd appreciate you saying a little more than just RP. It's awfully hard to get a read on where you currently stand, and even our spanreed in MR4 was considerably more entertaining than this

Edited June 11, 2015 by Kasimir

[Lightsworn Panda he/him]

Don't worry Hreo. I am Wyrm here, and Kasimir is Kas here. I've been in the situation of a GM having to deal with changing names before... (which is also why we didn't exchange names too).

 

 

Simple. I find you incredibly suspicious. Multiple times you have attempted to strategise in the thread about what the Gyorn would do, which to me sounds as though you're bouncing ideas off people in the thread just because you have no-one to do that with on your team. You've always covered it up with 'but why would I do exactly what I've just said if I was the Gyorn?' and my answer is 'because having just told us that, you expect suspicion to shift'. That is why I think you are specifically the Gyorn, rather than a Cultist.

 

You also kept talking about how boring it was on your side (of things) and that there was a lack of discussion coming your way. Well, discussion begins at home, and people who want discussion thrown their way seem to me to be Eliminators; it's incredibly easy to complain about discussion, but harder to generate it, so that strikes me as a cheap shot.

 

And then you've also voted for me as a response vote. That's not a helpful response. I cannot be the Gyorn as I am (almost 100%) confirmed to be a Dula with Kas's vote last Day Turn. I cannot be the Odiv, as I have not been converted. The only thing I could now be is one of the remaining Cultists. This is possible, but unlikely - There have been no paired deaths due to Lovers so far. Either I'm playing a very long game, or I am quite simply innocent. So either your vote is just reactionary, designed to confuse, or you haven't been paying the greatest attention, which seems wrong considering you asked for more discussion and have been making strategies.

 

For all these reasons, and potentially more, I am accusing you of being the Gyorn, Jain.

 

Let me get this straight. You are accusing me for being a Gyorn, since I've been trying to discuss about the Gyorn, and "bounce ideas off other people"? Why would I need to do that? I am, at heart, whether I like it or not, a Wildcard. I go with what I think would be fun, and I live by the creed of YOLO. Think back to when I've played with you. Did I ever ask for you or anyone else for advice? I rarely did, and even then I didn't always follow it. I don't "expect suspicion to shift" just because I apparently tried to do the old "Oh, I can't be Eliminator, since I pointed out the Eliminator's mistakes, and suspcions will shift". Can't I try to do some analysis? Can I be helpful? Besides, these so called "ideas I've been trying to bounce off people" aren't so much ideas as half-baked musings I threw out in an attempt to be useful for once. Here's all of them:

 

 

 

The thing is, Wyrm is not Wyrm, and Kas is not Kas. But if Kas is not Kas, yet is neither Wyrm, then WHO WAS KAS!? Illuminati Confirmed!

 

Speaking of which, why would I, Lightsworn Panda the Gyorn Convert Zas? Considering how it was the first Night, then the Gyorn couldn't have possibly known what role or alignment Zas was, unless he/she contacted Zas with a Seon. However, Zas was also an Elantrian. The Gyorn could have taken advantage of the lack of communication between Elantris and the main thread, and Converted Zas, confusing the main thread for some time.  Of course, if I was the Gyorn, I wouldn't have gone for an Elantrian, unless they were experienced, since the temporary confusion advantage only lasts so long, and would provoke discussion about me the Gyorn and his/her activities, which is something I the Gyorn wouldn't want. Yes, I know I'm following the "I'm not Eliminator, since if I was Eliminator, I'd do X, instead of Y" logic, but I just wanted to contribute some discussion/analysis that was useful for once.

 

Welcome, Silverblade!

 

 

I've been playing pretty passively and quietly in my previous games, and I just so happen to be neutral/evil in most of them, so before anyone works out that I'm an Eliminator before anyone lynches me for that, I'd like to chip into the discussion with my two cents about potential Convert targets and other Gyorn-related thoughts.

 

The Gyorn is different to the JC (I'm going to abbreviate the Cultists to that for now, since I'm that lazy) in the respect that he/she is not necessarily going to try to target the most experienced or influential players. An Eliminator's objective is to simply kill everyone, so it makes sense that they would try to kill the most dangerous Villagers first. The Gyorn (and Odiv), however, have to target everyone and keep them alive while they're at it. The Gyorn has to think carefully about who to target, especially during the early-game, since every Convert that dies is an action/Night wasted. An experienced/influential runs too much risk of being killed at some point by the JC, or may end up getting lynched.  Therefore, the Gyorn will probably target more "safer" options, like  recluse players, or people that like to snoop around the edge of the radar trying to stay alive (*Cough* totally unlike me *Cough*). Inactives would be a rather dangerous pick though, since there's a general "lynch-the-inactives" vibe during the mid-game. 

 

Around the mid-game, when there's about 5 or more Converted, the Gyorn will probably run out of safe picks (There should be around 10 dead players by then), and will have to start picking more risky targets. The Gyorn's chances of dying are much larger, and as a result he will be pressured into picking an Odiv.

 

Funnily enough, the Gyorn probably has the most vote control in the game. As soon as two Conversions start showing up, the Convert list will become a lynch list. 

 

The Gyorn will have a quiet play-style early game, since it's the most vulnerable part of the game for him/her. He/She definitely won't have enough Converts then, and he most likely won't have an Odiv.

 

TL;DR: The Gyorn most likely will target quiet players tonight.

 

Has anyone noticed that this thread has a "Late Votes" thing next to it?

 

Edit: Colour. And I'm spelling it with a "u".

 

That's all the discussion I've tried so far. TL;DR of them: Guess of why the Gyorn would Convert Zas first, and early-game analysis of who the Gyorn would target, which has been proven partially incorrect, FYI. That's obviously some next-level strategising out in the main thread for everyone to shoot feedback back at. So ingenious, Jain.

 

You're also accusing me for wanting to get discussion. I am bored. Do you want to know how I got these scars what's happened on my side so far? I've only received one message, and that was from Karlin, for IRL troll reasons. I have a Pendant. I tried to generate some discussion, and got shot back into my hole for it. So I've tried to get some discussion to come my way. All I've tried to do is to be helpful, and this is the reception I get?

 

Wyrm, you voted for me first, without any reasoning for your suspicion, and you also tugged Kas into voting with you. A counter vote for a response sounds reasonable to me. Wait, it was you who accused me first Last Night, right? Stupid picture changes and mobile versions of forums...

Edited June 11, 2015 by Lightsworn Panda

[Wyrmhero he/him]

Let me get this straight. You are accusing me for being a Gyorn, since I've been trying to discuss about the Gyorn, and "bounce ideas off other people"? Why would I need to do that? I am, at heart, whether I like it or not, a Wildcard. I go with what I think would be fun, and I live by the creed of YOLO. Think back to when I've played with you. Did I ever ask for you or anyone else for advice? I rarely did, and even then I didn't always follow it. I don't "expect suspicion to shift" just because I apparently tried to do the old "Oh, I can't be Eliminator, since I pointed out the Eliminator's mistakes, and suspcions will shift". Can't I try to do some analysis? Can I be helpful? Besides, these so called "ideas I've been trying to bounce off people" aren't so much ideas as half-baked musings I threw out in an attempt to be useful for once. Here's all of them:

 

...

 

That's all the discussion I've tried so far. TL;DR of them: Guess of why the Gyorn would Convert Zas first, and early-game analysis of who the Gyorn would target, which has been proven partially incorrect, FYI. That's obviously some next-level strategising out in the main thread for everyone to shoot feedback back at. So ingenious, Jain.

 

You're also accusing me for wanting to get discussion. I am bored. Do you want to know how I got these scars what's happened on my side so far? I've only received one message, and that was from Karlin, for IRL troll reasons. I have a Pendant. I tried to generate some discussion, and got shot back into my hole for it. So I've tried to get some discussion to come my way. All I've tried to do is to be helpful, and this is the reception I get?

 

Wyrm, you voted for me first, without any reasoning for your suspicion, and you also tugged Kas into voting with you. A counter vote for a response sounds reasonable to me. Wait, it was you who accused me first Last Night, right? Stupid picture changes and mobile versions of forums...

 

I withheld my reasoning at first because I wanted to see the reaction for such a vote, and I wasn't disappointed. You've definitely come out of your corner swinging there, and it does seem to me to be just a tad overdone. And yes, it was always me accusing you. Kas decided on his own that I had a point after I mentioned that I would throw a vote on you.

 

As for whether or not the strategy the Gyorn followed is the one you suggested, that doesn't actually prove anything either way. A Gyorn could follow it or not follow it and it wouldn't prove anything about you being it. I don't think you're quite as lolrandom as you claim. I've seen you play as an Eliminator before, and you thought about things, you didn't just go 'I guess I'll go after you because idk'. The strategy the Gyorn is following is simple, but very effective. Everyone here is able to strategise 'go after quiet people/then go after confirmed innocents to break the Village up'. Saying you'd play YOLOGyorn is not something I believe.

 

Let's get something clear here though: I'm not accusing you of wanting to get discussion. Everyone should be wanting that, after all. I'm accusing you of wanting reactionary discussion. You don't want to talk about things, it seems, you want to be questioned and then to defend yourself - Something which is very easy to do if you only ever act defensively and thus have nothing 'suspicious' about you. If you wanted to truly promote discussion, you'd do like I am doing, and go after people rather than waiting and sitting back until something happens to you. I definitely find you suspicious still.

[Kasimir he/him]

You're also accusing me for wanting to get discussion. I am bored. Do you want to know how I got these scars what's happened on my side so far? I've only received one message, and that was from Karlin, for IRL troll reasons. I have a Pendant. I tried to generate some discussion, and got shot back into my hole for it. So I've tried to get some discussion to come my way. All I've tried to do is to be helpful, and this is the reception I get?

Two questions immediately occur to me.

1. Are you suggesting Karlin has had/received a Seon? Or is this our missing Ien? And if this is so, why did you not come forward when the call was being put out to be able to track the known Seons?

2. I want to put this as carefully as I can, because of what Wyrm did not do to me in LG5 and because of what was done to me in LG4. Alright. You claim to have a Pendant. Why didn't you do anything with it when Wonko was publicly requesting pendant-holders to come forward because of the attack on our (at that time) only known Priest?

 

As I've said, I want to put this carefully because I understand that wanting to hang on to a protective item doesn't ipso facto necessitate that you aren't on Team Arelon. And I deplore methods of organisation in a game that asks one player to save another or face the lynch. I don't think we need to further go into the history of dictatorship within SE games. So, I do not want to imply that there is something gravely wrong about not having done so. At the same time, I do find it inconsistent with the motivations of a player playing for Team Arelon. In Meta's case, he hung on to it as a second Korathi Priest (who also didn't realise it was a safe role ). And yet even so--it seems to me to be rather strange that someone with a Pendant would decide to hang back and to not pass it to the Priest in need--or at least to fade into the background. Perhaps it is my inclinations. Wilson has always been rather annoyed by my tendency to 'take one for the team', particularly because I'm a little overeager to do so. Still, I would appreciate an answer to this. My vote remains.

 

Edit: 3. It occurs to me upon further thought that this synthesises well with Wyrm's comment on reactionary participation. Because this is sort of what strikes me as what is going on, if 1. and 2. are the case. You had information that was being asked for. You sat on it. You had the ability to help when people with Pendants were being requested to come forward and to take one for the team. You preferred not to (and I do not condemn this, even if I would not have made the same choice.) But it does paint a picture of you sitting back the entire game. And that I find somewhat strange.

 

-

 

I'm once again in contact with Elantris today. Nothing to report right now; Ren comments it's too early in the cycle for him to give any impressions. Also, I think he doesn't like the food in there. Sobald er mir etwas sagt, melde ich sofort bei euch.

 

-

 

Also, move along, move along--nothing to see here, official Inquisition business taking place.

Edited June 11, 2015 by Kasimir

[Silverblade5 he/him]

Anyone think they'd be able to post a list of known roles for active/alive players? Because that would really help me sort through all this. Heavily suspected roles would also be helpful.

[Kasimir he/him]

Anyone think they'd be able to post a list of known roles for active/alive players? Because that would really help me sort through all this. Heavily suspected roles would also be helpful.

We haven't been big about role-claiming publicly for reasons, including that we aren't so hot on giving the Cultists targets. However, you have reminded me that I've yet to post my usual list, and you might find it helpful even though I'm not going to deal in heavily suspected roles

Confirmed Non-Gyorns

1. Kas [Dula & Convert]

2. Ren [Elantrian]

3. Neo [Veteran Elantrian]

4. Wilson [Queen & Convert]

5. Luckat [Convert]

6. Meta [Priest]

7. Twei [cleared by Meta & Convert]

8. Mek [cleared by Meta]

9. Kipper [Keeper]

10. Alv [Elantrian, cleared by Meta]

11. *Seonid [unlikely because inactive on Cycle 1]

12. *Piff/Em [unlikely; seems to have been replaced after two cycles of inactivity]

13. Wyrm/Aonar [Dula bro!]

14. *Ostrich/Silver [unlikely; replaced after two cycles of inactivity while Gyorn was constantly active.]

Gyorn suspect pool: M’Hael, Jain, Clanky, Dow, Araris, Claincy, Karlin, Wonko/Sart

Odiv suspect pool: Luckat, Wilson, Kas, Twei/Tehen

There we are. That's pretty much the known information at this point in time. Unfortunately, the Gyorn cunningly converted Twei, so we don't have the ability to clear an additional person from the suspect pool at this point in time.

Of course, we shouldn't neglect the Cultist side of things. But I'll add my own two cents on that matter later on.

[Silverblade5 he/him]

We haven't been big about role-claiming publicly for reasons, including that we aren't so hot on giving the Cultists targets. However, you have reminded me that I've yet to post my usual list, and you might find it helpful even though I'm not going to deal in heavily suspected roles

Confirmed Non-Gyorns

1. Kas [Dula & Convert]

2. Ren [Elantrian]

3. Neo [Veteran Elantrian]

4. Wilson [Queen & Convert]

5. Luckat [Convert]

6. Meta [Priest]

7. Twei [cleared by Meta & Convert]

8. Mek [cleared by Meta]

9. Kipper [Keeper]

10. Alv [Elantrian, cleared by Meta]

11. *Seonid [unlikely because inactive on Cycle 1]

12. *Piff/Em [unlikely; seems to have been replaced after two cycles of inactivity]

13. Wyrm/Aonar [Dula bro!]

14. *Ostrich/Silver [unlikely; replaced after two cycles of inactivity while Gyorn was constantly active.]

Gyorn suspect pool: M’Hael, Jain, Clanky, Dow, Araris, Claincy, Karlin, Wonko/Sart

Odiv suspect pool: Luckat, Wilson, Kas, Twei/Tehen

There we are. That's pretty much the known information at this point in time. Unfortunately, the Gyorn cunningly converted Twei, so we don't have the ability to clear an additional person from the suspect pool at this point in time.

Of course, we shouldn't neglect the Cultist side of things. But I'll add my own two cents on that matter later on.

OK. Now, given the player pool size, how many people would have likely held each role, going off the list from the beginning of the game? With this info, it may be easier for people to narrow down suspects.

[little wilson she/her]

OK. Now, given the player pool size, how many people would have likely held each role, going off the list from the beginning of the game? With this info, it may be easier for people to narrow down suspects.

 

Role distribution is a hard thing to gauge, since it's really dependent on the GM. Judging by the fact we have 2 Priests, I'd venture to say we have 2-3 Warriors, and if the latest write-up is any indication, that seems correct (The hooded figure was someone they hadn't seen before, so that indicates it was a different Warrior than the one that blocked the Cultists Night 5).

 

Priest: Phatt (dead), Meta (confirmed)

Warrior: evidence of 2. -could be a third.

Monarch: Wilson (confirmed) -likely the only one

Keeper: Feligon (dead), Kipper (proven) -Might be another. Cultists could easily have one.

Duke/Duchess: indication of only one so far. Cultists most likely know who it is, since Bort controlled their vote at one point. -could be another

Prince/Princess: Bort (dead Cultist) -could be another and if there is, they're a villager

Debtor: Spencer (dead) -at least one more, and one of the remaining Cultists is probably a Debtor.

Pirate: Honey (dead), Mek (claimed but not confirmed). -Cultists probably have one, could be Mek, but it's probably someone else 

Dula: Kas (confirmed), Wyrm (confirmed) -likely the only ones

Regular: Zas (dead Cultist), Winter (dead Cultist), Locke (dead), Maill (dead) -there's at least 2 more, possibly up to 10 more

Veteran Elantrian - Neo (confirmed)

Gyorn: 1

 

As we started with 31 players, and typical Eliminator numbers are somewhere around 1/5 of the total players, we probably started with 6 eliminators. 5 Cultists and 1 Gyorn. Probably. We could've started with 6 Cultists, but I'm betting 5, since the Gyorn also chooses an Odiv, which would add an additional eliminator. If there were 6 Cultists to start with, that makes 8 eliminators, and that's over 1/4 of the total players. That's a little high, but it could work since the Odiv doesn't join Team Shu-Dereth until a little way into the game (assuming he's not one of the very first converts), and by then some of the Cultists would (theoretically) be dead.

 

To be noted about the Cultist team, if there is only 5:

Bort - Prince

Winter - Regular

Zas - Regular

? - ?

? - ?

 

As they already have 2 Regulars, it's rather unlikely they have a third. I'm betting their last two roles are Debtor and Pirate, though the Debtor could be replaced by a Keeper. (I'm more certain they have a Pirate than I am about the Debtor).

[Araris Valerian he/him]

Hey everyone, I just wanted to let you know that I am reading the thread and I can make a substantial post later today, so if I don't then go ahead and flag me for inactivity. I will need to go back and look at what has changed regarding Clanky and Hael since they are my top suspects for cultists and it seemed to me earlier that they were suspected by others, but their names haven't come up yet this cycle, possibly because of the Gyorn discussion.

[Guest]

Just so everyone knows, I will be ditching this joint very early Saturday morning (EST), until the following Saturday. You will see no activity from me after Friday night, most likely. If you know of someone who would be a good pinch-hitter, please let them, as we are all out of the others.

[Lightsworn Panda he/him]

Two questions immediately occur to me.

1. Are you suggesting Karlin has had/received a Seon? Or is this our missing Ien? And if this is so, why did you not come forward when the call was being put out to be able to track the known Seons?

2. I want to put this as carefully as I can, because of what Wyrm did not do to me in LG5 and because of what was done to me in LG4. Alright. You claim to have a Pendant. Why didn't you do anything with it when Wonko was publicly requesting pendant-holders to come forward because of the attack on our (at that time) only known Priest?

 

As I've said, I want to put this carefully because I understand that wanting to hang on to a protective item doesn't ipso facto necessitate that you aren't on Team Arelon. And I deplore methods of organisation in a game that asks one player to save another or face the lynch. I don't think we need to further go into the history of dictatorship within SE games. So, I do not want to imply that there is something gravely wrong about not having done so. At the same time, I do find it inconsistent with the motivations of a player playing for Team Arelon. In Meta's case, he hung on to it as a second Korathi Priest (who also didn't realise it was a safe role ). And yet even so--it seems to me to be rather strange that someone with a Pendant would decide to hang back and to not pass it to the Priest in need--or at least to fade into the background. Perhaps it is my inclinations. Wilson has always been rather annoyed by my tendency to 'take one for the team', particularly because I'm a little overeager to do so. Still, I would appreciate an answer to this. My vote remains.

 

Edit: 3. It occurs to me upon further thought that this synthesises well with Wyrm's comment on reactionary participation. Because this is sort of what strikes me as what is going on, if 1. and 2. are the case. You had information that was being asked for. You sat on it. You had the ability to help when people with Pendants were being requested to come forward and to take one for the team. You preferred not to (and I do not condemn this, even if I would not have made the same choice.) But it does paint a picture of you sitting back the entire game. And that I find somewhat strange.

 

-

 

I'm once again in contact with Elantris today. Nothing to report right now; Ren comments it's too early in the cycle for him to give any impressions. Also, I think he doesn't like the food in there. Sobald er mir etwas sagt, melde ich sofort bei euch.

 

-

 

Also, move along, move along--nothing to see here, official Inquisition business taking place.

 

Wait, there was a call for Seons...  Well, Karlin's Seon is Seon Teo.

 

I held on to my Pendant because I guessed that Meta was probably going to be flooded by Jindo protection and Pendants, so why should I add mine to the pile? Besides, he already had one, and the Eliminators could only tap someone once. 

 

 

 

I withheld my reasoning at first because I wanted to see the reaction for such a vote, and I wasn't disappointed. You've definitely come out of your corner swinging there, and it does seem to me to be just a tad overdone. And yes, it was always me accusing you. Kas decided on his own that I had a point after I mentioned that I would throw a vote on you.

 

As for whether or not the strategy the Gyorn followed is the one you suggested, that doesn't actually prove anything either way. A Gyorn could follow it or not follow it and it wouldn't prove anything about you being it. I don't think you're quite as lolrandom as you claim. I've seen you play as an Eliminator before, and you thought about things, you didn't just go 'I guess I'll go after you because idk'. The strategy the Gyorn is following is simple, but very effective. Everyone here is able to strategise 'go after quiet people/then go after confirmed innocents to break the Village up'. Saying you'd play YOLOGyorn is not something I believe.

 

Let's get something clear here though: I'm not accusing you of wanting to get discussion. Everyone should be wanting that, after all. I'm accusing you of wanting reactionary discussion. You don't want to talk about things, it seems, you want to be questioned and then to defend yourself - Something which is very easy to do if you only ever act defensively and thus have nothing 'suspicious' about you. If you wanted to truly promote discussion, you'd do like I am doing, and go after people rather than waiting and sitting back until something happens to you. I definitely find you suspicious still.

 

Nor was I disappointed by yours. You always have some reasoning hidden. Finally, a good argument!

 

By "a tad overdone", did you mean "aggressive"? Yes, I figured Kas was just following you, otherwise he would have made an accusatory post of her own.

 

You're kinda putting me in a logical paradox, with only your answer as the acceptable one. The Gyorn could have followed the strategy, and I would be guilty. The Gyorn could have not followed it, and I'd still be guilty. Either way, you win, all because I tried to do some predictions. Really makes me think why in previous games, no one was accused of attempting to predict the targets of the Eliminators.  

 

You have a point. Yes, I actually do have more than two brain cells to rub together when I plan things. But did you really think I'd be dumb enough to try and bounce ideas off people in the thread if I was the Gyorn? I might as well write "I'm the Gyorn" on my forehead. Since you've seen me play as an Eliminator before, shouldn't you already know that HIDING and not drawing attention by discussing things is my preferred playstyle?

 

​Oh, so now my means of getting discussion is something worth accusing? Wyrm, you've seen me play before, like you've said. Have I ever come up with original ideas? No. Do I have any self-initiative? No, Jain has terrible self-initiative. You may remember in MR3, the only reason why I provided discussion was because I was provoked into doing so, or had someone giving me the points to do so (something which you and Kas took advantage of and led me around like a mule). That's why I try for "reactionary" discussion. It's my only area of discussion and analysis. Besides, I find it much more intense and fun that ordinary discussion. My Leader, if you want discussion from me, then do remember that I need someone to give me the starting points to do so.

[little wilson she/her]

Well, Karlin's Seon is Seon Teo.

 

Oh, now that's fascinating. Has a Seon he kept hidden and has only used on seemingly one other person. Plus, he's been incredibly quiet in the thread, with each post of little-to-no substance. Yeah, my vote is on Karlin.

[twelfthrootoftwo]

​Oh, so now my means of getting discussion is something worth accusing? Wyrm, you've seen me play before, like you've said. Have I ever come up with original ideas? No. Do I have any self-initiative? No, Jain has terrible self-initiative. You may remember in MR3, the only reason why I provided discussion was because I was provoked into doing so, or had someone giving me the points to do so (something which you and Kas took advantage of and led me around like a mule). That's why I try for "reactionary" discussion. It's my only area of discussion and analysis. Besides, I find it much more intense and fun that ordinary discussion. My Leader, if you want discussion from me, then do remember that I need someone to give me the starting points to do so.

I have to say, Jain, your responses have been rather strongly worded for someone who essentially wants to be accused. I'm starting to give some serious consideration to Kashero and Wyrmimir's* accusation. 

 

Luckat, what do you make of recent events?

 

*The two of them can decide who gets the cool name and who gets the silly one.

[Lightsworn Panda he/him]

I have to say, Jain, your responses have been rather strongly worded for someone who essentially wants to be accused. I'm starting to give some serious consideration to Kashero and Wyrmimir's* accusation. 

 

Luckat, what do you make of recent events?

 

*The two of them can decide who gets the cool name and who gets the silly one.

 

Essentially, that's my weakness in taking on a "reactionary" way of having discussion. I might be too aggressive at it. >> However, it does provoke a good amount of discussion and reasoning, and also tells us who suspects who (i.e. Everyone suspects me now, thank you Wyrm and Kas).

[Seonid he/him]

Oh, now that's fascinating. Has a Seon he kept hidden and has only used on seemingly one other person. Plus, he's been incredibly quiet in the thread, with each post of little-to-no substance. Yeah, my vote is on Karlin.

Oooh. Now that's getting somewhere. I'm hesitant to jump on the Jain bandwagon because I haven't seen enough solid evidence for the accusation. But those points about Karlin, while far from conclusive, are certainly extremely suspicious.

EDIT: spelling

Edited June 12, 2015 by Seonid

[Lightsworn Panda he/him]

Seonid, for the color to work, you need to write [/color] at the end instead of .

[Haelbarde he/him]

Oh, now that's fascinating. Has a Seon he kept hidden and has only used on seemingly one other person. Plus, he's been incredibly quiet in the thread, with each post of little-to-no substance. Yeah, my vote is on Karlin.

I must say, I do find that interesting. Curious to see if Karlin'll come by and tell us all about it. 

 

*The two of them can decide who gets the cool name and who gets the silly one.

Actually curiuos which name you think is the cool one. Kashero looks better, but Wyrmimir sounds awesome. 

 

---

 

Gonna put a vote on Karlin. I'd like to hear from him about his Seon. I don't suppose anyone else has been contacted by Seon Teo?

 

a smart guy, had time to dig through the game enough to offer thoughts yet?

 

Oh, and hey there Silverblade o/ Greetings, and good luck.

[Seonid he/him]

Thanks, Jain

[Surgebound Rainspren he/him]

 

Gonna put a vote on Karlin. I'd like to hear from him about his Seon. I don't suppose anyone else has been contacted by Seon Teo?

 

I will confirm that I have a Seon. However since I contacted Jain a couple rounds ago I have not contacted anyone else with it

[Araris Valerian he/him]

Ok, well, here is my post. So it looks like Clanky had/has IRL reasons for being somewhat inactive, which is the main thing he was called out for. I did note that Bort called him out once, but by itself that doesn't really say much. Also, Hael was just a bit slow with discussion early on and has been much more involved recently.

I find how violently Jain has been responding a bit suspicious. There are a couple reasons I can think of for this. First of all, I have known several people that would respond to false accusations in a similar way. So it is possible that Jain is like that, but I don't think that is the real reason since I don't think he has ever given that sort of response in any other games. Another possibility is that Jain is a Cultist that is upset about being accused of being Gyorn. I would be Really Upset if I got killed because somebody thought I was a different kind of eliminator, so I think this possibility has some merit. The last option is that Jain is just doing what he says, playing YOLO style. I can't really think of how to respond to this except that it is still suspicious and if it is the real reason, I suggest to Jain that he add a few restrictions to his YOLO strategy. So I think I am sufficiently convinced to vote for Jain.

As for Karlin, the suspicions there are based more on a lack of behavior, which is a bit harder to judge than actual responses, but I think that at this point, having posted but not addressing the comments against himself, Karlin is also a good lynch prospect.

[Lightsworn Panda he/him]

Ok, well, here is my post. So it looks like Clanky had/has IRL reasons for being somewhat inactive, which is the main thing he was called out for. I did note that Bort called him out once, but by itself that doesn't really say much. Also, Hael was just a bit slow with discussion early on and has been much more involved recently.

I find how violently Jain has been responding a bit suspicious. There are a couple reasons I can think of for this. First of all, I have known several people that would respond to false accusations in a similar way. So it is possible that Jain is like that, but I don't think that is the real reason since I don't think he has ever given that sort of response in any other games. Another possibility is that Jain is a Cultist that is upset about being accused of being Gyorn. I would be Really Upset if I got killed because somebody thought I was a different kind of eliminator, so I think this possibility has some merit. The last option is that Jain is just doing what he says, playing YOLO style. I can't really think of how to respond to this except that it is still suspicious and if it is the real reason, I suggest to Jain that he add a few restrictions to his YOLO strategy. So I think I am sufficiently convinced to vote for Jain.

As for Karlin, the suspicions there are based more on a lack of behavior, which is a bit harder to judge than actual responses, but I think that at this point, having posted but not addressing the comments against himself, Karlin is also a good lynch prospect.

That's funny, because I'm fairly sure I saw Clanky check the thread today.

I have been almost this aggressive in MR 3. But yes, this is actually a new height of aggresion for me. I should tone it down a little.

I honestly can't see why I would be Very Offended if I was accused of being a Gyorn if I was a Cultist. In fact, I would have been much less aggressive, in case I got scanned, and tried to play it down.

I guess this new extremely aggressive streak is kinda unusual. I suppose it:s got to do eith the fact that I've had a rough few days, coupled with insufficient sleep and vicious League games. Reading through my previous posts, I can see that I was a bit of a venomous git. I apologize to those that I offended and Wyrm and Kas. I'll tone myself down.

Edited June 12, 2015 by Lightsworn Panda

[Wyrmhero he/him]

Glad to see we've finally gotten some useful information out of this, though whether or not it links to any suspicious behaviour on Karlin's end is really a bit iffy. I am heavily doubtful that any Cultist with a Seon would not use it, or at least would not gift it to on of their allies. They had Winter's, true, but two conversation pieces are always better than one, particularly when we wouldn't be able to say 'well, let's list all the Seons and only look at those guys' if there are two.

As such, if anything, I would expect Karlin to be the Gyorn if anything, which would explain the lack of contact due to not wanting to bring attention onto himself. I do find his apparent disappearance from the thread suspicious, particularly now when he is only around to answer a single point before disappearing, but annoyingly enough, it's not odd. Last time Karlin was an Eliminator, he was very inactive, and in the last game I GMed, he came back just for one Cycle to avoid dying.

So far, the votes are looking like this:

Jain (3) - Wyrmhero, Kasimir, Araris Valerian
Karlin (3) - little wilson, Seonid, Haelbarde
Wyrm (1) - Jain
Luckat (1) - twelthrootoftwo

 

I'm still very curious as to the strength of your fighting back there. Sure, if you're innocent you should argue your case, but it does feel over-the-top.

 

You're kinda putting me in a logical paradox, with only your answer as the acceptable one. The Gyorn could have followed the strategy, and I would be guilty. The Gyorn could have not followed it, and I'd still be guilty. Either way, you win, all because I tried to do some predictions. Really makes me think why in previous games, no one was accused of attempting to predict the targets of the Eliminators.  

 

You have a point. Yes, I actually do have more than two brain cells to rub together when I plan things. But did you really think I'd be dumb enough to try and bounce ideas off people in the thread if I was the Gyorn? I might as well write "I'm the Gyorn" on my forehead. Since you've seen me play as an Eliminator before, shouldn't you already know that HIDING and not drawing attention by discussing things is my preferred playstyle?

 

​Oh, so now my means of getting discussion is something worth accusing? Wyrm, you've seen me play before, like you've said. Have I ever come up with original ideas? No. Do I have any self-initiative? No, Jain has terrible self-initiative. You may remember in MR3, the only reason why I provided discussion was because I was provoked into doing so, or had someone giving me the points to do so (something which you and Kas took advantage of and led me around like a mule). That's why I try for "reactionary" discussion. It's my only area of discussion and analysis. Besides, I find it much more intense and fun that ordinary discussion. My Leader, if you want discussion from me, then do remember that I need someone to give me the starting points to do so.

 

I'm not really putting you in a paradoxical position here, because while yes, I might think the same no matter the player, that's not the only evidence I am using. Do I think you would bounce ideas off the thread if you were the Gyorn? I think you would, since there's precedent from you. And generally when you're an Eliminator, you draw attention to the fact that you're not (though I would have expected you to no longer do that).

 

So what you're saying is that the only way for us to get information about you is to already have conclusions that we have reached, then come to you and accuse you of them? Hmm... No, I don't quite get that. If you want us to find you less suspicious, then you have to be one of the people who contributes information, rather than one who we have to prod and poke to take part. Hell, that goes for the vast majority of players in this game, sad to say...

[Lightsworn Panda he/him]

Glad to see we've finally gotten some useful information out of this, though whether or not it links to any suspicious behaviour on Karlin's end is really a bit iffy. I am heavily doubtful that any Cultist with a Seon would not use it, or at least would not gift it to on of their allies. They had Winter's, true, but two conversation pieces are always better than one, particularly when we wouldn't be able to say 'well, let's list all the Seons and only look at those guys' if there are two.

As such, if anything, I would expect Karlin to be the Gyorn if anything, which would explain the lack of contact due to not wanting to bring attention onto himself. I do find his apparent disappearance from the thread suspicious, particularly now when he is only around to answer a single point before disappearing, but annoyingly enough, it's not odd. Last time Karlin was an Eliminator, he was very inactive, and in the last game I GMed, he came back just for one Cycle to avoid dying.

So far, the votes are looking like this:

Jain (3) - Wyrmhero, Kasimir, Araris Valerian

Karlin (3) - little wilson, Seonid, Haelbarde

Wyrm (1) - Jain

Luckat (1) - twelthrootoftwo

 

I'm still very curious as to the strength of your fighting back there. Sure, if you're innocent you should argue your case, but it does feel over-the-top.

 

 

I'm not really putting you in a paradoxical position here, because while yes, I might think the same no matter the player, that's not the only evidence I am using. Do I think you would bounce ideas off the thread if you were the Gyorn? I think you would, since there's precedent from you. And generally when you're an Eliminator, you draw attention to the fact that you're not (though I would have expected you to no longer do that).

 

So what you're saying is that the only way for us to get information about you is to already have conclusions that we have reached, then come to you and accuse you of them? Hmm... No, I don't quite get that. If you want us to find you less suspicious, then you have to be one of the people who contributes information, rather than one who we have to prod and poke to take part. Hell, that goes for the vast majority of players in this game, sad to say...

 

Please see my above post for why my previous posts have been very over the top.

 

True, so we are at an impasse, since that's a bit hard to disprove, whether I like it or not.

 

I'm fairly sure none of my quoted post had anything to do with me, specifically. A TL;DR of it is that I provide discussion best when provoked. Also, if you're saying that's true for a lot of people playing, then why are you using that train of logic to accuse me?

[Haelbarde he/him]

So far, the votes are looking like this:

Jain (3) - Wyrmhero, Kasimir, Araris Valerian

Karlin (3) - little wilson, Seonid, Haelbarde

Wyrm (1) - Jain

Luckat (1) - twelthrootoftwo

I've taken to making Vote Tallies match the fact that Wilson is queen. Means there's 4 on Karlin.