What About Laral?

[kaellok]

You're probably right but when I originally posted this I was more interested in the chances of her attracting a spren...

...SO could she attract a spren? and if so what order might she join? As I said in the first post I think it would likely be the Skybreakers...

Deleted a bit more than i intended because phone, and lazy. Oh well. I think that IF she were to be radiant, that Skybreaker fits the best based on what we know.

She followed the law and rules even to her own detriment, after all. She wanted to marry Kaladin, and encouraged him to become a person where that would be allowed.

I find her story more interesting than Szeth right now, too, because i find tragedy more interesting than inanity, so that clearly plays a role, too, lol.

@venture mistborn. She was young, like 14 when we last saw her? Of course she wasa naive idiot. Kaladin has been one or the other or both the entire time we have known him. That's part of what makes him so real to so many people.

Edited May 18, 2015 by kaellok

[AerionBFII]

She was a young girl, the last of her family her father died, her inheritance stolen and life turned upside down.

I can hardly blame her for the way she acted, i think she will reappear. 

[Elsecaller3414]

She was a young girl, the last of her family her father died, her inheritance stolen and life turned upside down.

I can hardly blame her for the way she acted, i think she will reappear. 

 

Especially since Kaladin is going back to Hearthstone, so it is quite likely that he will run into her while he is there.

[Aizhen]

In WoK when Kaladin finds out that his parents DID steal the money from Laral's dad, he vows to pay Laral back one day.  We know he's got a bag full of huge, dung gems.  Maybe he'll just pay her back and be done with her.  Though in that scene when Tien is recruited he thinks about "saving" her.  It is his personality to want to do so.  But I don't think/really hope he won't risk his bond with Syl for revenge again.  That would be stupid.

[Elsecaller3414]

I think you mean dun gems, because "dung gems" means something different.     Sorry, just thought I'd point that out.

 

And yes, it would be completely idiotic to risk a bond with Syl because of revenge.  In the stories, supposedly, the heroes are not the kind of people that lust for revenge.  If he did that, I would probably be like "OH MY COWS" and then throw the book through the wall.  Through it.

[Arondell]

In WoK when Kaladin finds out that his parents DID steal the money from Laral's dad, he vows to pay Laral back one day.  We know he's got a bag full of huge, dung gems.  Maybe he'll just pay her back and be done with her.  Though in that scene when Tien is recruited he thinks about "saving" her.  It is his personality to want to do so.  But I don't think/really hope he won't risk his bond with Syl for revenge again.  That would be stupid.

 

Typos not withstanding that kind of depends on what happened to those diamond bromes since Kaladin left Hearthstone.  If Lirin still has them then Kaladin could just suggest he simply hand them back.  It isn't like he or his parents will likely need them.  Of course with the coming of the Desolation this might all be moot depending on what has been happening since the Everstorm hit.

[hoser]

If Laral is married to Roshone, then giving her the original gems may be equivalent to giving them to Roshone. 

Kaladin does have gems, but I don't think they are really his.  They have been lent to him for the journey, but I think they belong to the kingdom.  I doubt he will be giving them away to settle an old debt. 

[Arondell]

If Laral is married to Roshone, then giving her the original gems may be equivalent to giving them to Roshone. 

Kaladin does have gems, but I don't think they are really his.  They have been lent to him for the journey, but I think they belong to the kingdom.  I doubt he will be giving them away to settle an old debt. 

 

My point was that if Kaladin still had the intent to pay back the value of those thousand diamond bromes he could just as well give the actual bromes back.  Outside of surgery what did Lirin need them for now?  As for them effectively going to Roshone I'm not sure what the issue is at this point.(Personally I would think it would give at least a little satisfaction to be able to hand them back because they didn't need them anymore.)  The ones Kaldin borrowed to get to Hearthstone didn't even enter into my thinking on the issue.  Kaladin could easily support his parents on his bodyguard/captain salary.  Perhaps he could ask Dalinar for a favor and get him to donate another thousand diamond bromes to replace those.  Given how many times Kaladin has saved members of the Kholin family I think Dalinar would see that a pretty minor favor.

 

Of course this might all be moot.  We have to find out what the situation is in Hearthstone before we can do anything more then wildly speculate.  Oh and the new Desolation has arrived.  So even if everything had remained static in Hearthstone up until now it probably isn't anymore.

[kaellok]

Typos not withstanding that kind of depends on what happened to those diamond bromes since Kaladin left Hearthstone.  If Lirin still has them then Kaladin could just suggest he simply hand them back.  It isn't like he or his parents will likely need them.  Of course with the coming of the Desolation this might all be moot depending on what has been happening since the Everstorm hit.

Do you REALLY think that a small minded and petty man like Roshone would leave Kaladin's family alone after he and Tien went off to war? The bromes would be needed more than ever after. When the bully publicly beats the tar out of the only person standing up to them, the result is continued cruelty, not a cessation of hostilities (eg, townspeople will continue to not pay Lirin, more greed driven thieves that are less scared of reprisal, etc.)

[Elsecaller3414]

If there was some way that I could make a disgusted face on the forum (at Roshone, not at any of you), then I would.  For sure.  One of my least favorite characters, he is.    Also, I am in a storming bad mood today, so that doesn't help.

[Aizhen]

Do you REALLY think that a small minded and petty man like Roshone would leave Kaladin's family alone after he and Tien went off to war? The bromes would be needed more than ever after. When the bully publicly beats the tar out of the only person standing up to them, the result is continued cruelty, not a cessation of hostilities (eg, townspeople will continue to not pay Lirin, more greed driven thieves that are less scared of reprisal, etc.)

 

Agreed.  I'm really curious at the state Kaladin will find his parents in.  They held up well enough while they had something to fight for, i.e. sending Kaladin to learn surgery.  But Lirin was feeling the weight of Roshone before Kaladin basically threw all their sacrifices to the wind.  Maybe Lirin will find purpose in fighting for the town people, or maybe his will crumbled.  Hope not...

[Arondell]

Do you REALLY think that a small minded and petty man like Roshone would leave Kaladin's family alone after he and Tien went off to war? The bromes would be needed more than ever after. When the bully publicly beats the tar out of the only person standing up to them, the result is continued cruelty, not a cessation of hostilities (eg, townspeople will continue to not pay Lirin, more greed driven thieves that are less scared of reprisal, etc.)

 

I don't think I ever said Roshone would leave Lirin and Hesnia alone.  It also seems quite possible that Lirin might have sold some of the bromes to get supplies.  I'm just pointing out that we don't know what the situation is.  Does Lirin still have the bromes?  Did he sell some of them?  Did he sell all of them?  What I meant buy them not needing them was right now when Kaladin returns.  Kaladin now has enough resources at his disposal to take the financial pressure off of his parents.  Even assuming he doesn't call in any favors from Dalinar.  Also as I pointed out all of this could now be irrelevant with the coming of the Desolation.

[Natsume]

When Roshones son told Kaladin to get them food didn't Laral take his side and also ordered him? I forgot what she said but remember disliking her that moment.

[Emerald101]

I'd like to point out a couple quotes to those theorizing about kaladin's love life:

 

 

[Kaladin] was suddenly aware of [shallan] pressed into his back. Holding him, breath warm on his neck. She trembled, and he thought he could hear in her voice both terror and fascination at their situation. (WoR, Pg. 856, hardback 1st edition)

 

[shallan] looked gorgeous. Kaladin was willing to admit it, if only to himself. Brilliant red hair, ready smile. He waited hoping that she'd look toward him, meet his eyes across the short distance. (WoR, Pg. 929, hardback 1st edition)

 

     That was all right. She liked Adolin as he was. He was kind noble, and genuine. It didn't matter if he wasn't brilliant, or . . . or whatever else Kaladin was. She couldn't even define it. So there.

     Passionate, with an intense, smoldering resolve. A leashed anger that he used because he had  dominated it. And a certain tempting arrogance. Not the haughty pride of a highlord. Instead, the secure, stable sense of determination that whispered that no matter who you were - or what you did - you could not hurt him. Could not change him.

    He was. Like the wind and rocks were. (WoR, Pg. 936, hardback first edition)

 

 

 

It looks like Kaladin and Shallan are gonna get together.

 

Edit: oops forgot a word, and spelling

Edited May 22, 2015 by Emerald101

[AerionBFII]

@Emerald101

I doubt they will get together. I think there will maybe be some mooning on both ends but it will pass do you really think Kal will jeopardize everything he and his Bridgemen have earned?  Personally i don't think he will. I think Brandon is angling for character conflict not a love triangle. I think in the Storm they bonded and shared a connection Adolin wont be apart of. Can't be apart of because he hasn't been through what they have.

 

 

Personally i don't hold anything against Laral, we know the temperament of Roshone and his son. If Laral still tried to show interest in Kal at that point i don't think they would have liked that.... Also she has also considered Kal and his family friends and to have your family friends steal from you? That's not right, the loss of her father and servants she had known all her life and to suddenly not own the house you live in, she was a young confused girl who there is no doubt in my mind getting pressured and pressed from Roshone at home..

 

I know Kal went to war and that's where his troubles started but lets not forget that he chose to go. Kal is my fave character in the Cosmere but that was his decision. Nothing about Laral's life was her decision. So i don't hold it against her that she didn't leap to Kal's defense Shardblade in hand to defend Kaladin's honor. 

 

As unpleasant as Roshone was after the loss of his son, who was the one stuck with him  all the time? And then forced to marriage?

I am eager to see her again mostly out of curiosity, to see how she has adapted.

[Elsecaller3414]

@Emerald101,

I think the whole love/hate relationship with Shallan was to get him over his hatred of lighteyes.  To an extent.

[Emerald101]

It's still kinda hanging on-end though There feelings for each other haven't been resolved yet

[ecohansen]

Nobody's proposed a Laral-Adolin matchup yet?  They've never met, but it would take care of both jilted parties in a Kaladin-Shallan pairing, and shuffling the partners from two initia couples is a fairly common trope.  I can see Adolin's and Laral's personalities working well together.

[maxal]

Nobody's proposed a Laral-Adolin matchup yet?  They've never met, but it would take care of both jilted parties in a Kaladin-Shallan pairing, and shuffling the partners from two initia couples is a fairly common trope.  I can see Adolin's and Laral's personalities working well together.

 

Care to expand on the last one? I honestly do not recall much of Laral's personality, so I would be curious to read on how you see them as compatible.

 

As for Kaladin and Shallan, I keep seeing them as incompatible. Here is a new argument I do not think has ever been brought up: before being a scholar, Shallan is, one and before all, an artist. Kaladin may have something more akin to a scholarly mind than Adolin, but does he have any artistic inclination? Remember when Adolin and Shallan go on a date, Shallan complains over them ALWAYS going to the wine houses, to which Adolin responds there isn't much else to do... No sculpture contest or art exhibit or whatever else, but ALL of his suggestions had to deal with.... art. When Shallan shows her porte-folio to Adolin, he is genuily impressed. He reinforced many times over how good her art was... and he did sound as if he knew what he was talking about... After all, who was Adolin before the war? A hopeless fop who liked fashionable clothes and thrilled on "crafting himself a new style to fit his mood". Would it be possible Adolin arbors an artistic streak expressing itself through his love of fashion and through his hobbies, things such as watching art exhibits and browsing through magazines....  I mean, he is not looking out at maps or battle plans: he looks at fashion.

 

Therefore, who between Kaladin and Adolin is more apt to appreciate Shallan's artistry? I do not recall Kaladin making a qualitative remark on her art and he did see it... 

[emilylime]

Kaladin may not appreciate her art, but he understands her in a way Adolin can't, as manifested by their heart to heart in the chasms when Shallan totally proves Kal wrong and calls him out on his crap. Also, there's this passage from when they're on their way to the menagerie in chapter 55...

 

She hesitated, and Kaladin thought he saw something in her eyes A flash of something deeper. Pain? Worry? "And I could use some distraction," Shallan added more softly.

 

"I actually despise hunting," Adolin said, as if he hadn't noticed. ...

 

 

This is another instance, besides the chasm ordeal, of Kal understanding something about her that Adolin seems to miss. Granted, it could be that Adolin chose to ignore Shallan's pain/worry, but I find that unlikely. It seems to me like sharing an emotional connection like Shallan and Kaladin do is more important than sharing similar hobbies. I'm still not completely convinced that Shallan and Kaladin would be a perfectly matched couple, but I'm fairly certain their relationship would be deeper and more solid than Shallan and Adolin's. (The scene that always sticks out to me is when Adolin tells Shallan he'll protect her and she panics. Adolin just doesn't get her, I think.)

 

Anyway, about Laral and Adolin... I really don't think there's much of a basis for a relationship there. Laral would likely be focused on being accepted into high lighteyes society, thus resulting in her conforming to how other court ladies act. And Adolin is way too used to normal court ladies. The reason he's attracted to Shallan is because she's different from all the women he's dated before. Laral, I think, would be unable to keep his attention.

Edited June 1, 2015 by Lady Eowyn

[maxal]

Kaladin may not appreciate her art, but he understands her in a way Adolin can't, as manifested by their heart to heart in the chasms when Shallan totally proves Kal wrong and calls him out on his crap. Also, there's this passage from when they're on their way to the menagerie in chapter 55...

 

 

This is another instance, besides the chasm ordeal, of Kal understanding something about her that Adolin seems to miss. Granted, it could be that Adolin chose to ignore Shallan's pain/worry, but I find that unlikely. It seems to me like sharing an emotional connection like Shallan and Kaladin do is more important than sharing similar hobbies. I'm still not completely convinced that Shallan and Kaladin would be a perfectly matched couple, but I'm fairly certain their relationship would be deeper and more solid than Shallan and Adolin's. (The scene that always sticks out to me is when Adolin tells Shallan he'll protect her and she panics. Adolin just doesn't get her, I think.)

 

I think you are being unfair to Adolin here. Shallan has not share even one snippet of her past to Adolin. Does he even know she has brothers back home? Does he even know silly stuff such as her favorite color? She has been safeguarding every single thing about herself, so how can he be put to blame for not knowing she would react badly to his desire to protect her? What does Adolin know? He knows she is a talented artist, a very smart woman, but a down-to-earth one who makes him laugh and does not snap at his antics. She also genuinely seemed concerned about him, which is much more than any other woman before. Should he know more? I don't know, they have not been courting for very long.

 

Kaladin understands her simply because she is not hiding when around him, whereas with Adolin, she still try to play a role. Why? Is it truly about compatibility or is it about having something to lose? With Adolin, she has everything to lose, with Kaladin, she does not have much to lose. She has been fearing since the beginning Adolin would not like her if she wasn't as sophisticated and poised as the other lighteyed women or he would tire of her as isn't he quite the womanizer by reputation? She can't just tell him everything she told Kaladin, especially since they were stranded in a chasm, in the middle of a Highstorm... no doubt such circumstances call for desperate measures. Has they not been in the chasm together, would Shallan have open up to Kaladin? Probably not. They shared something, I certainly will not deny it, but it does not mean she won't be able to share the same thing with Adolin, once these two get the chance to speak up the real things.

 

Should Adolin be able to read her better? Maybe, but he has repetitively been awful at reading women. Whenever his heart is involved, Adolin seems to lose his people's reading skills. It taps directly into his main weakness: his heart, his emotions. He gets blinded by them more often than not and when it comes to Shallan, he turns into lover boy, so yeah he completely misses it.

 

Does it mean Kaladin has a better connection with Shallan then Adolin? As of now, I do agree he seems to understand her better, but he has been made privy of her personal life. He did read her better than Adolin in the menagerie, but do not forget Kaladin was specifically watching her as he thought her a menace for Adolin. His job was to keep the prince safe, so he did pay specific attention to Shallan. Does it mean Kaladin and Shallan are more assorted than Adolin and Shallan? As of now, I do not think so. Many people believe Shallan would prefer Kaladin because he appears smarter and has more of a scholarly mind than Adolin, but the same argument could be turned back on him in saying she ma prefer Adolin who is more artistically inclined than Kaladin.

 

 

 

Anyway, about Laral and Adolin... I really don't think there's much of a basis for a relationship there. Laral would likely be focused on being accepted into high lighteyes society, thus resulting in her conforming to how other court ladies act. And Adolin is way too used to normal court ladies. The reason he's attracted to Shallan is because she's different from all the women he's dated before. Laral, I think, would be unable to keep his attention.

 

I think Adolin fail in love with Shallan because she made him laugh... and she was authentic, which is much more than he ever got with the other self-centered girls. 

[emilylime]

I think you are being unfair to Adolin here. Shallan has not share even one snippet of her past to Adolin. 

 

This is a really valid point. Shallan can't really open up to Adolin because, as you said, she has everything to lose. This is part of the reason they aren't on the same level emotionally- she feels she has to be cautious around him, she holds back.

 

Kaladin understands her simply because she is not hiding when around him, whereas with Adolin, she still try to play a role. 

 

However, when I said Kaladin and Shallan understand each other, I meant more than just that they know each other's past. The empathy that they feel for each other is not just due to story telling. They understand each other. Chapter 71: (sorry for long quote)

 

"The sensation- it's not sorrow, but something deeper- of being broken. Of being crushed so often, and so hatefully, that emotion becomes something you can only wish for. If only you could cry, because then you'd feel something. Instead, you feel nothing. Just... haze and smoke inside. Like you're already dead."

He stopped in the chasm.

She turned and looked to him. "The crushing guilt," she said, "of being powerless. Of wishing they'd hurt you instead of those around you Of screaming and scrambling and hating as those you love are ruined, popped like a boiil. And you have to watch their joy seepoing away while you can't do anything. They break the ones you love, and not you. And you plead. Can't you just beat me instead?"

"Yes," he whispered.

Shallan nodded, holding his eyes. "Yes. It would be nice if nobody in the world knew of those things, Kaladin Stormblessed. I agree. With everything I have."

He saw it in her eyes. The anguish, the frustration. The terrible nothing that clawed inside and sought to smother her. She knew. It was there, inside. She had been broken.

 

This is what I meant when I reference the chasm ordeal before. I can't explain it better than Sanderson displays it in this passage XD Shallan and Kal, they understand each other. Sorry, I'm not so good with words so I keep saying the same thing over and over. But it's true. And I don't know how to express it other than italics. It's not just understanding, it's something deeper. It's.... understanding. (Haha)

 

They shared something, I certainly will not deny it, but it does not mean she won't be able to share the same thing with Adolin, once these two get the chance to speak up the real things.

 

 

Yes, if Shallan had to impress Kaladin instead of Adolin, the two likely wouldn't have made the same connection. However, even if she wasn't playing a role around Adolin, I'm not sure Adolin could fully comprehend the feelings she describes in the above passage. Adolin has lived a priveleged life; he hasn't been broken the way Kaladin and Shallan have. He could sympathize, but I doubt he could empathize.

 

Again, I'm really bad at explaining with words, heh. Also, this is quite the digression from the topic. Sorry!!l

Edited June 1, 2015 by Lady Eowyn

[maxal]

 

This is a really valid point. Shallan can't really open up to Adolin because, as you said, she has everything to lose. This is part of the reason they aren't on the same level emotionally- she feels she has to be cautious around him, she holds back.

 

 

Would you open-up about having murdered both your mother and your father to your current crush, whom you love very much, but have only been dating for a few weeks? Probably not. Long-term relationships rarely start with deep heart-to-heart confidences. Often, it is quite the other way around: they start as two silly people having a good time together and progressively realizing their long-term life project is compatible. And this is exactly what I see when I read Shallan and Adolin: two young people enjoying each other's company and progressively learning about their partner. Does Shallan really enjoy being around Kaladin? She finds him intelligent, intense and potentially handsome, depending on which angle she looks at him... but does she like to spend time with him?

 

In any advent, it takes a lot of trust to tell the deep truths about oneself and the worst they are, the longer it takes. This is simply normal. What is not normal is Shallan telling a complete stranger about it. I thus blame more the circumstances more than some unseen connection.

 

 

 

However, when I said Kaladin and Shallan understand each other, I meant more than just that they know each other's past. The empathy that they feel for each other is not just due to story telling. They understand each other. Chapter 71: (sorry for long quote)

 

This is what I meant when I reference the chasm ordeal before. I can't explain it better than Sanderson displays it in this passage XD Shallan and Kal, they understand each other. Sorry, I'm not so good with words so I keep saying the same thing over and over. But it's true. And I don't know how to express it other than italics. It's not just understanding, it's something deeper. It's.... understanding. (Haha)

 

 

Of course they emphasize with each other: they both have a terrible past, but I do not see it as a deep connection. They lived through similar feelings, they are thus easily able to put themselves into each other shoes, which arguably may be more difficult for Adolin to do given his own past.

 

However, whether I do not deny there is an understanding between these two, I do not see it as a sign their are compatible for a long-term relationship. In fact, I see these are rather poor reasons to enter into a relationship with someone... sharing a horrible past does strike me as the good way to chose your partner. It is also diminishing to think someone without those horrible experiences could not emphasize nor understand.

 

 

 

Yes, if Shallan had to impress Kaladin instead of Adolin, the two likely wouldn't have made the same connection. However, even if she wasn't playing a role around Adolin, I'm not sure Adolin could fully comprehend the feelings she describes in the above passage. Adolin has lived a priveleged life; he hasn't been broken the way Kaladin and Shallan have. He could sympathize, but I doubt he could empathize.

 

Again, I'm really bad at explaining with words, heh. Also, this is quite the digression from the topic. Sorry!!l

 

 

Again, I think you are not giving Adolin a fair chance here. He is a very empathetic person: he may understand providing he is ever given the chance to. Besides, it is not as if Adolin's live has been a happy picnic from birth until now: he did lose his mother whom he appears to miss, aka his tendency to let Navani mother him around.

 

For my part, what convinced me to jump fully into the Shallan/Adolin bandwagon is the fact they are able to laugh together. There is nothing more unscripted, more natural and more genuine than laughter. You can't improvise laughter, you can't fake laughter and these two laugh together. They make silly jokes about flatulence and poop and they both find it amusing. Adolin likes the fact Shallan makes him laugh and Shallan loves to hear Adolin laugh. So for me, this small tip bit about these two is a far stronger argument in their favor, for a long-term relationship, than any deep connection and understanding Kaladin and Shallan may have.

 

These are the little things that makes a relationship work: to be at ease enough to tell stupid jokes, to be at ease enough to laugh around one another. The deep, deep confession about a trouble past can wait: they will come as after all they have dating for a few weeks. Weeks. Not years or even month, weeks. 

[DreamEternal]

Actually, if someone could fake laughter it would be Shallan.

Not saying she WAS faking, of course, just nitpicking.

EDIT

damnation, accidentaly downvoted a post by Emerald101, can someone upvote to compensate?

Edited June 1, 2015 by CognitivePulsePattern

[maxal]

Actually, if someone could fake laughter it would be Shallan.

Not saying she WAS faking, of course, just nitpicking.

EDIT

damnation, accidentaly downvoted a post by Emerald101, can someone upvote to compensate?

 

Well... I'd love to hear it... I mean faking laughter... It's a very hard one... unless you are a trained actor. Adolin sure is not faking as I doubt the guy could fake anything, he is just too blunt.

 

I fixed it.