Theory on why Urithiru was built were it was.

[Arook he/him]

As I reread way of kings I noticed something about what Szeth says. The night before he starts killing all the kings he makes a comment about the moons. He comments that it is between moons and none of them are in the sky and he says none of the gods are watching. This got me thinking what if why Urithiru could not be build in Alethela, but was build closest to honor was because there were not any mountains tall enough there. Becuase honor based himself on one of the moons. Odium is able to affect Roshar from Blaze so no reason honor could not have set up on a moon. Szeth calling all of the moons gods could just be distortion of myth down through the years, but maybe one of the gods was on the moon in the past. This works well if you figure that the one order of Radients that did not disband fled to Shinovar and started stone shamanism. 

[Patrick Star]

For Knights Radiant to Fus Ro Dah each other off the top. It is the only logical reason.

[hoser he/him]

It certainly seems possible.  On the other hand, Szeth seems to refer to the sun as the God of Gods in I-10.  I doubt that any of the Shards based themselves on or in the sun.  Stone Shamanism is strange.  Maybe the respect for farming goes with a reverence for the sun and moons?

 

Bright sunlight shone down to banish the shadows, ... .

He did not look up.  He would not meet the gaze of the God of Gods.  But it was good to be in the sunlight.  ...

[Loni she/her]

Urithiru was built in a way (rounded Leeway walls, straight stormwise walls) that seems to be ready for the Everstorm, which indicates a strong likelihood that it is on Roshar proper and not a moon. If building in a region unlikely to be ravaged by highstorms or the Everstorm, the architecture would be more symmetrical than the design indicates.

 

Could being "close to Honor" have some correlations to the Well of Ascension or the Pits? Meaning a coalescing of Honor's essence/power, not neccessarily the Shardholder himself. Then Urithiru would be similar to Luthadel.

[Arook he/him]

Urithiru was built in a way (rounded Leeway walls, straight stormwise walls) that seems to be ready for the Everstorm, which indicates a strong likelihood that it is on Roshar proper and not a moon. If building in a region unlikely to be ravaged by highstorms or the Everstorm, the architecture would be more symmetrical than the design indicates.

 

Could being "close to Honor" have some correlations to the Well of Ascension or the Pits? Meaning a coalescing of Honor's essence/power, not neccessarily the Shardholder himself. Then Urithiru would be similar to Luthadel.

 

I was not saying it was on the moon just high up so as to be close to the moon. Urithiru is clearly not on the moon but is in fact high on a mountain that is why no roads lead to it.

[dayman]

If it weren't built in the middle of nowhere then it wouldn't have been much a mystery to the modern characters or reader ... that's enough for me.

[StormingTexan he/him]

If it weren't built in the middle of nowhere then it wouldn't have been much a mystery to the modern characters or reader ... that's enough for me.

 

 

Fair enough but it's specifically mentioned it was built to be closer to Honor so I think this is just a happy coincidence that it is also in the middle of no where. 

 

Closer to Honor could mean closer to the sky especially since it was built so high up. Not sure about the moon idea but seems possible. 

[hoser he/him]

Actually, now that I think about it, I have become a skeptic. 

I see two issues:

• While it is arguably closer at it's nearest point,  the average distance to the moon is actually greater, as the moons spend most of their time on the opposite side of the planet.  The distance will be closer less than half of the time. 
• Shards have bodies.  While they don't materialize while holding the Shard, they may still need air and heat to survive.  Judging by our moon, the moon is unlikely to be hospitable to biological life.  This point may not apply, as invested Kaladin does fine without air, and Shards have plenty of Investiture. 

I feel disappointed, as I really liked this theory.  In light of this, I am going back to the geographical nexus associated with Honor, conceivably even the Purelake. 

Edited April 16, 2015 by hoser

[phattemer]

Loni, welcome to 17thshard! You mention on Roshar proper rather than a moon, have you read Words of Radiance?

[Elsecaller3414 she/her]

I like the idea of the similarity to the Well of Ascension.  It makes a lot more sense than the jumbled mess that is inside my brain.
 

[Arook he/him]

Actually, now that I think about it, I have become a skeptic. 

I see two issues:

• While it is arguably closer at it's nearest point,  the average distance to the moon is actually greater, as the moons spend most of their time on the opposite side of the planet.  The distance will be closer less than half of the time. 
• Shards have bodies.  While they don't materialize while holding the Shard, they may still need air and heat to survive.  Judging by our moon, the moon is unlikely to be hospitable to biological life.  This point may not apply, as invested Kaladin does fine without air, and Shards have plenty of Investiture. 

I feel disappointed, as I really liked this theory.  In light of this, I am going back to the geographical nexus associated with Honor, conceivably even the Purelake. 

 

 

I get what you are saying and until I thought of this I thought the same thing.

 

How ever it is important to take into the acount the type of mind set the people of Roshar. The people of Roshar don't actively think of them selves as on a sphere. you can tell by how they refer to the origin. The high storm is not created but continuosly going around never stopping. I'm sure scientist and even others my know and understand this I don't think they would factor in orbital distance when building if honor was based on the moon. I think moon in sky build it high would be the logic, not well if we build it on a mountain during the day when the moon is gone it will be even further away. 

 

 Also I don't know if brandon has even confirmed that there is a shard pool for honor, he has said that not all shards have one.

 

 

As to him living in space the human body gets placed in a kind of suspended state. if you have read Mist Born then you would see evidence of that. Ati and Leras existed for 2 thousand years with Leras functionally brain dead and existing as vapor. Their is no reason to think they need air or even food, the shard sustains them.

 

It is more likely that it is honor is based on Roshar not a moon. Heck for all I know the moons are splinters of honor overlooking the planet not even true moons. Giant glowing spren in the sky.

[hoser he/him]

Sure, the common people of Roshar may not see it as a globe.  But the common people of "modern" Roshar are not locating and building Urithiru.  The Knights Radiant, possibly in conjunction with Honor are likely the ones who did this.  There may have been Bondsmiths communicating with superspren or Honor himself.  Two orders can fly, so the world being round would be obvious to them. 

 

Consider the following quote:

“Though many wished Urithiru to be built in Alethela, it was obvious that it could not be. And so it was that we asked for it to be placed westward, in the place nearest to Honor.”

Sanderson, Brandon (2010-08-31). The Way of Kings (The Stormlight Archive) (p. 519). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.

Note that it says westward, not at high altitude.  It seems like there was a real constraint on Urithiru's location, not the wish to satisfy superstitious peasants, none of whom actually know where it is really located. 

[natc]

Actually that's the Vorin highstorm myth. The stormwardens apparently do think the highstorms loop around the planet, or so it says on the coppermind.

[Arook he/him]

Sure, the common people of Roshar may not see it as a globe.  But the common people of "modern" Roshar are not locating and building Urithiru.  The Knights Radiant, possibly in conjunction with Honor are likely the ones who did this.  There may have been Bondsmiths communicating with superspren or Honor himself.  Two orders can fly, so the world being round would be obvious to them. 

 

Consider the following quote:

Note that it says westward, not at high altitude.  It seems like there was a real constraint on Urithiru's location, not the wish to satisfy superstitious peasants, none of whom actually know where it is really located. 

 

True like I said they I'm sure some people did know but that still does not change how people that are unable to leave their single continent might think about the world. Even Radients are not going to be able to circumnavigate the globe and by all accounts the shadow days were not a scientifically inclined. remember all of the Radients at one time were normal people carrying a thought pattern on into their new life. My point is not that they don't know the world is round but that people don't think about how far something is when they cant see it.

 

Westward could just be an indication as to were they ended up building it not why. It all hinges on what is meant by "closest to Honor". 

During the shadow days it may well have been common knowledge where it was and according to Dalinar's Vision they told people where to go. In the mountains like it is why try and hide its location, it was simply lost.

Edited April 17, 2015 by Arook

[Elsecaller3414 she/her]

So is it possible that the Shard is on the other side of the world from the highstorms?  This could potentially be true, but I'm just throwing it out there for speculation.  It might explain why the storms get weaker as they travel west.  That, or it is just because they are on land and the weather patterns cannot be sustained for long without dying... I don't know.

[.S.A.M.K.M]

The shards have epic power, the city might not have simply been built in a location, that location could have been shaped by the mountain around it.

[natc]

They wouldn't have to discuss where to build it if Honor would just do it himself.

[Elsecaller3414 she/her]

Well, can't the people on Urithiru see beyond a layer of stone?  It would at least have to be somewhere that would potentially be visible, maybe it was made invisible in some way.  Is it in a central location in Roshar, or did we already rule out that possibility? I can't remember if I read that in a book or not.

[Jit he/him]

We know that some people live near the southwestern foot of Urithiru, from Szeth interlude (I-10) in WoR.

Edited April 20, 2015 by Jit

[Elsecaller3414 she/her]

Yes, but do they know it?  Also, does this prove that Urithiru is on a mountain?  We don't usually refer to something being at the foot of something else unless it is a tower or a mountain.

[hoser he/him]

Yes, but do they know it? Also, does this prove that Urithiru is on a mountain? We don't usually refer to something being at the foot of something else unless it is a tower or a mountain.

I assume that you haven't read Words of Radiance. Its been out for long enough that people here refer to the contents freely.

I recommend you read it soon. Not only will it help you lead and follow discussion, but I think it will be a more enjoyable way to get up to speed than parsing this forum.

Anyway, until you read it, you can take it as fact that Urithuru is on a mountain.

Edited April 20, 2015 by hoser

[Elsecaller3414 she/her]

Well, I have read WoR twice, but apparently that is not enough that I can catch on to this stuff.  I guess I'll have to read it again... after two months.  Trying to limit my reading of it, but that is hard, so I might as well do it again.  I caught that Szeth was at Urithiru, but only on the second time through.  I caught that he was on top of something high, I just didn't know if it was blatantly obvious that it was there or not.  That, and this is not the topic I pay most attention to in reference to the series.

[hoser he/him]

Well, I have read WoR twice, but apparently that is not enough that I can catch on to this stuff.  I guess I'll have to read it again... after two months.  Trying to limit my reading of it, but that is hard, so I might as well do it again.  I caught that Szeth was at Urithiru, but only on the second time through.  I caught that he was on top of something high, I just didn't know if it was blatantly obvious that it was there or not.  That, and this is not the topic I pay most attention to in reference to the series.

Go to chapter 87, the part that starts with, "Shallan stood at the gates of Urithiru." pg 1048 of the hardcover

[Elsecaller3414 she/her]

That will probably help.  Thanks!

[Loni she/her]

Loni, welcome to 17thshard! You mention on Roshar proper rather than a moon, have you read Words of Radiance?

 

Thanks for the welcome  

 

I have read WoR, but only twice. Thus, there is plenty I may have missed. I was simply using 'proper' to indicate I think it is on Roshar the planet and Roshar the continent.