Theory: two shards become one (Harmony)

[Kaladin al'Thor]

So the last week or two me and my good buddy(irl) Sirce Luckwielder have been having a discussion about Atium and how it is linked to the Lord Ruler's staying young. It led to some other discussions and I was wondering if any of what i suspect has been confirmed. Or maybe some of you who are smarter than I am can help credit or discredit this theory.  I don't see how we will see Atium again at all and this is why. Atium was the physical manifestation of Ruin but it was either all used up to fight the Koloss or destroyed by Kelsier in the pits of Hathsin. He thinks that since Sazed has both shards there will still be Atium that will regrow. I disagree. Anyways, all of this discussion got me looking in to things that i haven't really cared about in the past (I'm a Roshar guy!) and I have firmed up in my conclusion that Ruin and Preservation no longer exist or are on the verge of no longer existing as two seperate shards. In The Emperor's Soul, Shai tries to teach Gaotona about the Physical, Spiritual, and Cognitive realm and she says this:

 

All things exist in the three realms, Gaotona.... The Physical is what we feel, what is before us. The Cognitive is how an bject is viewed and how it views itself. The Spiritual Realm contains an object's soul- its essence- as well as the ways it is connected to the things and people around it.......Here is the point. The longer an object exists as a whole, and the longer it is seen in that state, the stronger its sense of complete identity becomes..

 

Do citizens of Scarial see Sazed as Ruin and Preservation? I do not believe so(my memory isn't perfect) They see him as Harmony. Sazed is seen as one entity, not to. So I believe that if the shards haven't already been merged, they are on their way. 

 

Anyways, I was wondering what people think about this theory. Sorry my post might seem all over the place, I have a hard time typing out the thoughts in my head. This is kind of new to me as I haven't spent a lot of time thinking about things on Scadrial, I've mostly kept to Roshar. So please forgive anything I might have misunderstood. Also, I'm sure when Sirce has a minute he can write our discussion better, he's a lot better with words than I am.

[the winter system]

It's great. There's a WOB that says basically what you're saying. I think. I'm too lazy to dig it up, though. 

[Araris Valerian]

The thing with Atium is while it was a part of Ruin, Preservation was able to block it from being accessible by Ruin through the creation of the Pots of Hathsin. (Hence like the whole HoA plot) If Sazed actually reclaimed that power, then Harmony would contain more Ruin than preservation. While this may have happened, I instead tend to think that Sazed left that bit of power separate from himself to keep the balance between the two shards from shifting to something that causes the end of the world. What form that power is in could probably be changed, but I think Sazed could create a repository of Atium if he wanted to.

One aside is that some Lerasium accumulated at the Well, which was preservation's shardpool. If Sazed left the shardpools intact then both god metals will probably leak out in some small amount, if not as quickly as at the Pits.

[Kaladin al'Thor]

I can agree sazed could do it if he wanted to, I don't see why he would ever want to though. Atium only creates chaos.

[natc]

The thing being while the metal's existence only creates deadly superwarriors, absorbing it back would just push Harmony towards becoming Ruin, and the end of the world will come.

The burned atium, like other metal, probably doesn't just disappear but returns to the shardpool instead. It all depends on whether the pools are still intact, and even with both pools reclaimed Harmony will still become Ruin, as Preservation's greatest expenditure of power was human souls.

[Dunkum]

I wonder if Sazed/Harmony could alter the ruin/preservation balance in human souls after gaining his shard(s) though?  Or more accurately, I assume he could (though I'm open to evidence to the contrary), I'm just wondering what sort of consequences that might have and whether he might possibly consider it(WoB seems to suggest that he hasn't).  In that case the Ruin/Preservation balance thing could be addressed.  For that matter, if he made the Koloss with a bit more ruin than preservation, then he could have expended the power that way.  though based on some of the WoBs out there and what Brandon chooses to be secretive about (the extra ruin power, atium, the Pits, etc.) I'm inclined towards the atium theory.

 

To the OP's question, Brandon is a bit vague and wishy-washy about it in the WOBs I can find, but the interpretation seems to be that Harmony is one shard.  Examples (and I apologize in advance, but I forgot how to link to a specific question in the WoB, so I can only go to the whole thing, so I'll do that and reference the appropriate item number):

 

1. http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=642(Question 10)

2. http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=948(question 2)

3. http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=979(question 174)  this is probably the most definite as far as one shard vs two

[natc]

The Preservation overload appears to be the origin point of mistings as well as sentience, so he can't really change that part.

Koloss-blooded mistings also exist so they're probably normal too.

The atium assumption does seem simplest, and the 300 year estimate a bit uncanny. Kind of difficult to hide though. The Well's location is always magnetic north, and be it as the black lake or as Hathsin the Ruin pool is always within a few days journey of the well. It might even be a fixed position.

Edited April 15, 2015 by natc

[Sirce Luckwielder]

I'm pretty sure I don't need to say it, but spoilers ahead.

For starters, thanks Kaladin al'Thor for getting this thread started.

Here is the Word of Brandon that got this all rolling. I found it while trying to explain to another friend why Elend and Vin had to die while Sazed survived:

SYLOS (15 OCTOBER 2008)

I was happy when Elend finally burned duralumin with atium. I was holding my breath hoping that someone would eventually do it. However we didn't really get any info as to what Elend experienced. Does a duralumin-enhanced atium burn allow a person to see significantly farther into the future? If so, being that Elend's army was dying all around him did he get to see into the afterlife? Also if you could tell us what he saw that would be awesome. Did something he saw make him not want to avoid Marshes strike?

On a similar note if someone burned electrum with duralumin would they get to see significantly into their own future?

BRANDON SANDERSON (16 OCTOBER 2008)

There is much here that I can't say, but I'll give as much as I can. Elend saw Preservation's ultimate plan, and Elend's own part in it. What he saw made him realize he didn't want to kill Marsh, and that his own death would actually help save the world. Like a master chess player, he suddenly saw and understand every possible move his enemy could make. He saw that Ruin was check-mated, because there was one thing that Ruin was not willing to do. Something that both Elend and Vin could do, if needed. And it's what they did.

He thinks that since Sazed has both shards there will still be Atium that will regrow. I disagree.

Since Marsh is alive, I figure that he needs atium to survive. Atium compounding can basically give anybody immortality, that's how the Lord Ruler did it. Since he and Sazed are chummy now that Sazed holds Ruin's power and can talk with him, I assumed that he has been using his power in an atium way to keep him alive. Not necessarily all of the atium was at the Pits of Hathsin or the Kandra Warrens. He could potentially find enough to keep him alive long enough for it to regrow. Since the estimated time for it regrowing was three hundred years and the Wax and Wayne books were set 350ish years after Hero of Ages, I think it is possibly that atium is coming back. Perhaps they tie into the Bands of Mourning or The Lost Metal. There has even been speculation on atium in Shadows of Self.

I have firmed up in my conclusion that Ruin and Preservation no longer exist or are on the verge of no longer existing as two seperate shards. In The Emperor's Soul, Shai tries to teach Gaotona about the Physical, Spiritual, and Cognitive realm and she says this:

All things exist in the three realms, Gaotona.... The Physical is what we feel, what is before us. The Cognitive is how an bject is viewed and how it views itself. The Spiritual Realm contains an object's soul- its essence- as well as the ways it is connected to the things and people around it.......Here is the point. The longer an object exists as a whole, and the longer it is seen in that state, the stronger its sense of complete identity becomes..

Do citizens of Scarial see Sazed as Ruin and Preservation? I do not believe so(my memory isn't perfect) They see him as Harmony. Sazed is seen as one entity, not to. So I believe that if the shards haven't already been merged, they are on their way.

Once Kaladin al'Thor showed me this, I see this as plausible. I am not fully convinced without more Word of Brandon, but this could be the first step in how Adonalsium is reformed. If something thinks of itself as one peice, like the table in the quote, it is the table. Just like how the ship that Shallan changed in Words of Radiance didn't need to be changed plank by plank. If Harmony is thought of as one Shard instead of two for long enough, I think the powers could combine. There was a Word of Brandon that I saw before that I haven't been able to find about how Sazed is having difficulties with Ruin and Preservation since the Shard's Intents counteract each other. I can see becoming one Shard fixing this problem, but I am still a wee bit sceptical. If anybody has more to add; Words of Brandons, quotes, or speculations, I encourage you to add them.

Other threads to look at:

http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/23533-what-sazed-does-with-his-extra-essence-of-ruin/

http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/21393-pits-of-hathsin-well-of-ascention/

EDIT: here are the quotes for Harmony being two Shards:

http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/21393-pits-of-hathsin-well-of-ascention/?p=208607

Edited April 15, 2015 by Sirce Luckwielder

[WeiryWriter]

I wrote a theory that kind of deals with this a while back, you might find it interesting.  (Though I should really get around to updating it...)

[WindrunnerRadiant]

I think the simple fact that Atium and Larasium still exist says a lot for whether Harmony is one shard or two. On the other hand, so does the existence of Sazedium and Harmonium. In the end, Hamrony is both one shard, and two, just as this WoB puts it.

 

QUESTION

Were Ruin and Preservation two shards or one?

BRANDON SANDERSON

They were two shards. Harmony is considered a shard, although it’s really two, in the same way that a king of two countries would still be considered a king.

(Here's the link)

EDIT: Question 10

Edited May 19, 2015 by WindrunnerRadiant