Parshmen were created by the Bondsmith from the WoR Interludes

[Mckeedee123]

Okay, I'm not sure if someone has brought this up before, and I don't want to be this guy:

 

 

But let me point you to this Interlude quoting the in-world Words of Radiance:

 

"So Melishi retired to his tent, and resolved to destroy the Voidbringers upon the next day, but that night did present a different stratagem, related to the unique abilities of the Bondsmiths; and being hurried, he could make no specific account of his process; it was related to the very nature of the Herald and their divine duties, an attribute the Bondsmiths alone could address."

 

 

Let's look at this situation. Melishi was resolving to simply kill the Listeners once and for all (whether this was a group from the Last Legion or was captured before they could retreat to Braize is not clear,) but finds an alternative to it. Somehow, he obtains the ability to transport them back, or render them powerless, something like that.

 

Well, my theory is that what he did was take away their songs. Parshmen differ wildly from the dullforms in Words of Radiance, who seem to retain some of their personality and sentience, as well as the ability to think and confront. Parshmen are completely different. Shy, stupid, and unquestionably docile, I'm pretty sure I read Eshonai refer to them as Noforms.

 

Well, perhaps as a Bondsmith, Melishi was able to "break" the bond that connected them to their songs, rendering them permanently unable to access different forms until the Everstorm came.

 

Whatever he did, I'm pretty sure that this Interlude is describing the creation of Parshmen, any comments?

Edited April 14, 2015 by Mckeedee123

[Moogle]

To repost some of my objections to the theory:

 

The 'obvious' way to read this passage to me (everyone else disagrees as far as I know, so typical mind fallacy and whatnot) is that Melishi had an army and was about to battle a group of Voidbringers. He retired to his tent, had a dreamvision (we've seen Dalinar have one of these), and in the morning this inspired a new strategy for him to take his army and avoid directly fighting the group of Voidbringers his army was fighting.

 

Perhaps he realized he could attack and pull the Voidbringers away from whatever area they were terrorizing and then loop around and fortify the village himself. Specifics don't matter to me.

 

Furthermore, keep in mind this is a book Shallan read. We got an out of context quote, but this is plainly part of a greater story, and it would be very hard for Shallan to miss the fact that she just read how the Voidbringers could be defeated by a Bondsmith through magic. She never comments on this, and she totally would. Because of this, I doubt this quote is that important.

 

The magical explanations to break the listeners free of their spren introduce new magic systems which we don't know exist. Nothing we know of indicates Adhesion or Tension are usable to break listeners free of their sprenbonds, and those are all we know Bondsmiths get. The Stormfather himself may be able to do something like that, but there's no way the Stormfather wouldn't just do that 24/7 if he could completely neuter the Voidbringers on his own. The Stormfather even says he would stop Eshonai's transformation if he could.

Edited April 14, 2015 by Moogle

[Mckeedee123]

To repost some of my objections to the theory:

 

To "repost" your objections to the theory? Storms... I thought I was saying something original. 

[Elsecaller3414]

I really have no idea, but - who the heck is Malishi? I apologize for my ignorance.

[dvoraen]

While I personally agree with this thread's subject line, that the Bondsmiths had to do with how the Listeners ended up in 'slaveform', we aren't given much information as to exactly how this came about.  There may be an implication that the tertiary ability the Bondsmiths get is the ability to rapidly undo if not also form bonds (I'm referring to Dalinar sensing the Shardblade he gave up was unbound 'instantly' when it was supposed to take concentration and focus on just that).  The next major question is how they were able to accomplish this on a presumably worldwide basis -- though this may not necessarily be the case, as the death toll in a Desolation is extremely large.

 

It also makes me wonder if the Bondsmiths oversaw inauguration of individuals into the Radiant Orders if they were eligible to be squire material, by "bonding" them to a given Knight so that they could serve as a squire immediately.

[Zas678]

Malishi was seemingly a Knight Radiant who was a Bondsmith,

 

like Dalinar,

 

who seems importantish. Of course it mentions that there are only ever a handful of Bondsmith at a time (like 3. Ish)

[StormingTexan]

To repost some of my objections to the theory:

 

The 'obvious' way to read this passage to me (everyone else disagrees as far as I know, so typical mind fallacy and whatnot) is that Melishi had an army and was about to battle a group of Voidbringers. He retired to his tent, had a dreamvision (we've seen Dalinar have one of these), and in the morning this inspired a new strategy for him to take his army and avoid directly fighting the group of Voidbringers his army was fighting.

 

Perhaps he realized he could attack and pull the Voidbringers away from whatever area they were terrorizing and then loop around and fortify the village himself. Specifics don't matter to me.

 

Furthermore, keep in mind this is a book Shallan read. We got an out of context quote, but this is plainly part of a greater story, and it would be very hard for Shallan to miss the fact that she just read how the Voidbringers could be defeated by a Bondsmith through magic. She never comments on this, and she totally would. Because of this, I doubt this quote is that important.

 

The magical explanations to break the listeners free of their spren introduce new magic systems which we don't know exist. Nothing we know of indicates Adhesion or Tension are usable to break listeners free of their sprenbonds, and those are all we know Bondsmiths get. The Stormfather himself may be able to do something like that, but there's no way the Stormfather wouldn't just do that 24/7 if he could completely neuter the Voidbringers on his own. The Stormfather even says he would stop Eshonai's transformation if he could.

 

 

I tend to agree with you that the "unique abilities of the Bondsmiths; was related to the very nature of the Herald and their divine duties, an attribute the Bondsmiths alone could address." is the ability to receive visions or guidance from the "godspren" as we have seen with Dalinar. I think this passage just reinforces what we are learning about Bondsmith  pertaining to what we have seen with Dalinar. 

[jefftucker0525]

 

 

Furthermore, keep in mind this is a book Shallan read. We got an out of context quote, but this is plainly part of a greater story, and it would be very hard for Shallan to miss the fact that she just read how the Voidbringers could be defeated by a Bondsmith through magic. She never comments on this, and she totally would. Because of this, I doubt this quote is that important.

 

The quote very clearly states that he was unable to record his methods, so of course Shallan wouldnt have commented on it as there wasnt anything mentioning that, only that he came up with a different method to defeat the Voidbringers.

[hoser]

I think it's a reasonable theory.  As Moogle alluded, you aren't the first to interpret that quote that way.  Consider 2ii here, here and here. 

I got these from a quick search on "Melishi." 

Please don't think that this diminishes your brilliance in any way.  Let's just say that great minds think alike    . 

In addition, apparently coming up with an old idea is more acceptable than responding to old discussion, so posting it as a new theory exposes people to the idea again without subjecting us to the tedious recapitulation of old images about thread necromancy. 

Edited April 15, 2015 by hoser

[Moogle]

The quote very clearly states that he was unable to record his methods, so of course Shallan wouldnt have commented on it as there wasnt anything mentioning that, only that he came up with a different method to defeat the Voidbringers.

 

The quote says he was not able to give specifics of his process, which is not the same thing as Melishi not being capable of describing what he did at all. I doubt Melishi suddenly lost his entire memory, as well as every other person around him. The rest of the chapter in the in-world book would have mentioned what he actually did, even if they don't know how he did it.

 

Shallan knows Voidbringers became parshmen. She's aware of Jasnah's theory that once the Voidbringers were defeated, they were enslaved by humans. She's at least somewhat intelligent. If the story left open the possibility that Melishi turned the Voidbringers into dull-minded parshmen, Shallan would make that connection. As it is, Shallan never remarked on the matter, even when Dalinar said he was a Bondsmith.

[.S.A.M.K.M]

bondsmiths are very rare. I wonder if they could rebond the shard blades to worth humans to restore them.

[natc]

Nahel bonds don't work that way man.

[Rybal]

I'd be more inclined to the possibility that the Bondsmiths act as something of a caretaker of Spren bonds, either encouraging them or potentially even breaking them if necessary (i.e. one of the KR goes rogue while still technically within the bounds of their oaths). It would explain why there are so few.

 

If this is accurate, then it is possible that he realized that he was able to affect the bonds of more than the KR - that he could affect the Spren bonds of the voidbringers. If they could potentially break all of them at once, it would render them as parshmen.

 

That might even lead towards the cause of the Recreance - what if the KR abandoned their shards rather than completely having their bonds broken (and potentially driving them insane in the process)?