Generic Last Battle Theory

[Lightflame]

Rand's blood needs to be on the rocks on Shayol Ghul. Elayne is pregnant. Rand's kid would be considered his blood. Therefore, Elayne either needs to give birth at Shayol Ghul, or Rand's relatives need to throw rocks at the Dark One.

Probably already been discussed on some forum. Whatever.

[Aethling]

Shedding blood and dying are two different things. In a battle as large as what is going to happen, it would be hard for me to believe he does not get at least one wound that draws blood. That said, the only thing I see stopping him from dying is the information about Avi bearing his kids, but we do not have evidence of her being pregnant. Still, that wouldn't take all that long to remedy in the days before the battle.

If you take the family definition of blood, there are probably plenty of cousins from the Aiel as well as nobles from his mother's line.

Prophecy in fantasy is often confused by double or archaic meanings.

[Lady_Yasha]

Shedding blood and dying are two different things. In a battle as large as what is going to happen, it would be hard for me to believe he does not get at least one wound that draws blood. That said, the only thing I see stopping him from dying is the information about Avi bearing his kids, but we do not have evidence of her being pregnant. Still, that wouldn't take all that long to remedy in the days before the battle.

If you take the family definition of blood, there are probably plenty of cousins from the Aiel as well as nobles from his mother's line.

Prophecy in fantasy is often confused by double or archaic meanings.

Rand's sexual liaison with Aviendha was quite recent. Pregnancy won't be visible for roughly 12 weeks and she could hide the symptoms with her Wise One's dress.

I think Rand's blood will be spilt from his old wound that never healed. Maybe that's what also kills him. Remember the other prophecy about Rand from Min's viewing:

"...three women standing over a funeral bier with you on it..."

It's not solid but with everything else - the Aelfinn saying he must die to live again (which I think as the Dragon must die in one form to be born again in another), and Alivia, who will "help him to die" - I have as much reason to think he'll die as much as he'll live.

[Aethling]

I haven't gotten to his second time with Avi yet. Only up to Winter's Heart so far. Taking a YA break between each book to downshift. Still, most women I have known can tell they are pregnant long before they start showing. I don't know that she could keep that from Elayne or the Wise Ones.

[frozndevl]

When was Avi's 2nd liason with Rand? I've finished up and didn't recall it happening. For most of the last books, Rand is knockin boots with Min.

[guess]

I saw a theory somewhere that Rand will die. Then get ripped out of the dream world or called back with the horn. This happened with another one of the heroes. It would explain the live/die twice prophecy. Jordan tends to forshadow things like this. So odds are its something that was subtly forshadowed. Possibly many books ago.

Remember the one about the Aiel left with a 'fragment of a fragment'. That was explained Tower of Midnight. This surprised me, but made perfect sense.

Then there is one with Verin lying. At the end of the 2nd book, no one believed she lied. Then in book 12, she reveals that she is black ajah by lying. 10 books later... really liked that one. Did not see it coming and yet it made perfect sense.

[JamesW]

I think Nynaeve is going to figure out how to heal death, so he can live twice, since she's already shown precedent for breaking the rules of what can't be done and what is/is not possible.

Also Rand has felt intuitively that with enough power he could heal death (With the Sa'Angreal and Asmodean in Ruhidean), so maybe she figures it out.

And the three women around his funeral bier doesn't mean he doesn't live to a ripe old age with all of them, nor that his death isn't faked or something.

[zenous]

Throughout the entire series Nyn has talked about healing death, and from the very beginning Rand has been told he will die. Part of me thinks this is just a red herring, but if it's not Nyn will have to heal Rand. She has proven she can heal almost anything, including the madness of the taint. The only thing left is for her to heal death.

[Aethling]

I have always thought Sanderson channeled Eddings at times, but if Nyn does to Rand what Garion did to horse, that would be just a bit too obvious. There are any number of different interpretations for the dying and living again. It could be something as simple as Telamon leaving and Rand becoming a power himself, not just as reincarnation of someone else. Wasn't their also a scene where Tuon says that her past self is dead when she takes the new name?

We also have Min telling him that the ex-damane would help him die. That in itself does not sound like something malicious. She may know some fancy form of CPR. Goodkind is often accused of stealing from Jordan, it would be funny to see Rand resurrected by a version of the MS breath of life.

Two more months and we will know one way of the other.

I just want to know what male character that Sanderson left alive that Harriet had him go back and kill. It would almost have to be a major character. I think we can rule out Rand. If Jordan had him dying, I don't see Sanderson changing that. There is black prophecy about Perrin having to die, but the Light winning would instantly invalidate that prophecy. Mat has already died at least once. I am still not convinced that he actually died at the hanging, but then neither is he as late as Winter's Heart.

[Lightflame]

I just want to know what male character that Sanderson left alive that Harriet had him go back and kill. It would almost have to be a major character. I think we can rule out Rand. If Jordan had him dying, I don't see Sanderson changing that. There is black prophecy about Perrin having to die, but the Light winning would instantly invalidate that prophecy. Mat has already died at least once. I am still not convinced that he actually died at the hanging, but then neither is he as late as Winter's Heart.

Lan and Thom come to mind. Barring that, Talmanes, just because.

[zenous]

I've always thought that Lan is the person Harriet told Brandon to kill. It can't be one of the main three, and Lan is in the perfect position to die. Nyn may need him to die so she can freak out and turn the tide of the last battle. Like the story Moriane told the people of Edmonds Field about the Queen who lost her husband and went nuts with the power.

Edited November 4, 2012 by zenous

[Aethling]

Lan might work for what you said about Nyn, but would Sanderson actually do that twice. Remember, he did pretty much the same thing with Elend and Vin. I would certainly hate to see it just because both of them deserve some happiness. Nyn may not even play that major a role besides being trusted by Rand, she isn't even the most powerful channeler around Rand at the end of Winter's Heart. Thom and Moraine have just met again, so that one would be pretty short time too. It could be someone like Rhuarc, he has all but disappeared for the last few books, but he would almost have to be there for the final battle.

[Brendan]

Sanderson would do whatever Jordan left in his notes, irrelevant of what he has written himself in the past

[Aethling]

True, but would he really have left Lan alive if Jordan said he was to die?

It is probably going to be a secondary major character that has been around for a while. I doubt Galad or Gawyn. Juilin, maybe. Logaine, maybe. I am actually beginning to lean toward Rhuarc. He has been around from fairly early in the series, he hasn't been in the last few books all that much, and he almost certainly will take part in the fighting at the end.

[Windrunner]

I doubt Brandon would leave a character alive that Jordan specifically said would die, but from what I've read there are quite a few holes in the notes. If Brandon made the call to keep one character alive, whose fate wasn't dictated either way, and Harriet felt strongly that the character should die, I can see Brandon bowing before her wishes. Another thing to keep in mind is that Harriet is an editor. If Jordan originally wanted a character to live, Harriet could still disagree with that, and maybe could think the story is stronger if that character dies. It wouldn't really be any different then her disagreeing with Jordan keeping a character alive in a book he wrote.

[Lady_Yasha]

I saw a theory somewhere that Rand will die. Then get ripped out of the dream world or called back with the horn. This happened with another one of the heroes. It would explain the live/die twice prophecy. Jordan tends to forshadow things like this. So odds are its something that was subtly forshadowed. Possibly many books ago.

Twice and twice shall he be marked, twice to live and twice to die.

There's a chance this is an allegorical death that was fulfilled at the end of The Gathering Storm, in reference to Lews Therin living twice, once physically 3,000 years ago and once more again in Rand's head. With his defeat all those Ages ago came his first death. Rand's realisation that he could be different, that living for love and the bonds of people, put Lews Therin at peace, around the same time when Rand and Lews Therin became one. This was the second "death" of Lews Therin.

But if it's talking about Rand specifically then the two deaths would have to be that moment in TGS and the upcoming conclusion of Rand's link with Moridin. He's resolved himself with Lews Therin and been "reborn" as a new man.

Edited November 5, 2012 by Lyrebon

[happyman]

Whether Rand lives or dies has been a hot topic for discussion for a long time. I managed to get into some serious arguments about it back in the day. Funny thing is, I'm not strongly attached to either idea, knowing full well that a decent story could go either way with it. Bad times, bad times.

However, given the obvious symbolic mythological analogies with Rand (Jesus and King Arthur, most notably), I doubt his death will be straightforward, permanent or no.

[Lady_Yasha]

Whether Rand lives or dies has been a hot topic for discussion for a long time. I managed to get into some serious arguments about it back in the day. Funny thing is, I'm not strongly attached to either idea, knowing full well that a decent story could go either way with it. Bad times, bad times.

However, given the obvious symbolic mythological analogies with Rand (Jesus and King Arthur, most notably), I doubt his death will be straightforward, permanent or no.

Half the time I don't believe my own theories, I just throw them out there to see what people make of them and then look into them more. I like discussing WoT with people since usually everyone has a lot to say about it.