During a re-read. The saved Bridgeman.

[snote]

The first person Kaladin saves, I think, after he starts rescuing wounded bridgemen. Has the same description as Taln does at the end of WoK. Dark Skinned, without a hint of an accent. Strong but not at all Taln like in what he says. So, maybe this is where our mysterious snatched body comes from, who was later Willshaped or some such into thinking he's a Herald of the Almighty.

We don't know his previous history. So he might have been trained to look imposing and catch darts from the air. Which is why his body does it instinctively. I just find it odd that a man who fits the description is found by Kaladin and he notices these same traits at all. It's the whole, "As a filmmaker, I'm going to zoom in on this person's face. right? But why would I do that? Is this just for some odd context or is this going to be important later? Is it important now but you won't know until after other information is revealed?" It's basically game theory in action. I know that you know, that I know that you know. That we BOTH know.. I farted... but does SHE know? *As you discreetly look over, she forces eye contact with you while shaking her head in the affirmative and holding her nose*

[king of nowhere]

I don't remember his name, but that guy remained with the bridge since then. he was in ptsd during all the first book, not sure if he recovered in the second. anyway, we know his wereabouts and he is not one of the heralds

[natc]

I don't remember his name, but that guy remained with the bridge since then. he was in ptsd during all the first book, not sure if he recovered in the second. anyway, we know his wereabouts and he is not one of the heralds

While the part about his whereabouts being known is a knock against this theory (will have to check), him not being a herald is irrelevant when "Taln" is not a confirmed herald either.

[snote]

I don't remember his name, but that guy remained with the bridge since then. he was in ptsd during all the first book, not sure if he recovered in the second. anyway, we know his wereabouts and he is not one of the heralds

See, I was thinking he sort of fell out of view. Like he was assumed to be in the Barracks but it's not directly stated. Also, as Natc (The Southern accented, grammatically deficient NAZI. At least that's how my mind interprets his name, every time I see it.) states, the validity of the Taln we see has been questioned. As it's unclear if he's who he says he is, because of things like his sword not matching in one it's an enormous "spike or pike" in another it's a giant cleaver. There are too many issues with him and his situation. Also, if you notice, the individual claiming to be Taln does not show up until after the Battle of the Tower and Dalinar's confrontation against Sadeas. We don't know the exact amount of time between the events, so it could be totally possible. So, even if he were to be recovering in the bridge four quarters, the timeline would work for him to be lost in the exodus of bridgemen to Dalinar's camp. Then later assumed he was one of the men who took the purse and freedom. I get that it's a long series of events, that are obviously unclear and flimsy, at best. So, it's obviously true. I find your lack of faith disturbing. You can take my nonsense to the bank!

Edited April 6, 2015 by snote

[Bort]

I think you are talking about Dabbid here. Or Moolie as he later becomes known. He joined The Lopen on water duty since his 'PTSD' or whatever it was meant he could no longer keep up with the bridge.

 

I'm pretty sure he is still with Bridge Four even in Dalinar's camp.

[snote]

I think you are talking about Dabbid here. Or Moolie as he later becomes known. He joined The Lopen on water duty since his 'PTSD' or whatever it was meant he could no longer keep up with the bridge.

 

I'm pretty sure he is still with Bridge Four even in Dalinar's camp.

I'll take your word for it, I knew this one was flimsy at best. I just noticed an almost exact description of our saved Bridgeman and the Taln introduced at the end of the book. Then thought, "Wait a minute..." I didn't ever remember hearing him going anywhere or doing anything and thought we just might have lost track of him in the story. I remember the fact Dabbid was staring up at the sky, even in rain, without blinking or caring. I just never put two and two together that they were the same dude. Which I won't doubt they are. So, in other words, poop. Poop right on this one!

[Kelek's Breath]

I think you are talking about Dabbid here. Or Moolie as he later becomes known. He joined The Lopen on water duty since his 'PTSD' or whatever it was meant he could no longer keep up with the bridge.

 

I'm pretty sure he is still with Bridge Four even in Dalinar's camp.

Sorry to jump in, but the bridgeman in question is a bridgeman from another crew, Bridge 8, that Kaladin treats in TWoK Ch. 53, "Dunny", after he witnesses Dunny killed by arrows. Without quoting, he is dark skinned, and Kaladin expects him to have an Azish accent, but he does not. Not sure if he remains with the crew after he becomes well. Presumambly, he is one of the bridgemen left behind in the barracks when the Tower incident happens.

Aside from the dark skin and no accent, he is described as having long hair, but nothing about being muscular, which Taln is described to be.

[natc]

He probably doesn't have those godlike reflexes too. . .

[IAmTheBeard]

Sorry to jump in, but the bridgeman in question is a bridgeman from another crew, Bridge 8, that Kaladin treats in TWoK Ch. 53, "Dunny", after he witnesses Dunny killed by arrows. Without quoting, he is dark skinned, and Kaladin expects him to have an Azish accent, but he does not. Not sure if he remains with the crew after he becomes well. Presumambly, he is one of the bridgemen left behind in the barracks when the Tower incident happens.

Aside from the dark skin and no accent, he is described as having long hair, but nothing about being muscular, which Taln is described to be.

Well, they describe all the bridgemen as being muscular several times. The point about a Makabaki with no accent is too unusual to overlook. I'm not saying that this is pre-Taln-"Taln" but there could be something to this.

[snote]

YAY! My pie remains in the sky!

I had thought he took the Bridgemen to the Bridge 4 barrack once he treated them. If he wasn't as injured as all that, he might have just gone on back to his own crew or to god-knows-where. I don't want anyone to mistake what I'm saying. I DO NOT think the man Kaladin helped IS A HERALD! I just mean, that as the theory goes that Taln isn't really Taln, that this man might be the one who was used as his replacement. As a decoy or puppet. It was just too interesting to not say anything about, to see two men with matching descriptions in the same book. Also, with so many unspecified powers still remaining. It might be possible for say a Willshaper to change someone's mind into something else. I know it's a lot of speculation I just wanted to point it out as if I found it interesting, I thought some here might as well. Thanks for the time taken to respond and correct our misinformation.

Edited April 9, 2015 by snote

[natc]

YAY! My pie remains in the sky!

I had thought he took the Bridgemen to the Bridge 4 barrack once he treated them. If he wasn't as injured as all that, he might have just gone on back to his own crew or to god-knows-where. I don't want anyone to mistake what I'm saying. I DO NOT think the man Kaladin helped IS A HERALD! I just mean, that as the theory goes that Taln isn't really Taln, that this man might be the one who was used as his replacement. As a decoy or puppet. It was just too interesting to not say anything about, to see two men with matching descriptions in the same book. Also, with so many unspecified powers still remaining. It might be possible for say a Willshaper to change someone's mind into something else. I know it's a lot of speculation I just wanted to point it out as if I found it interesting, I thought some here might as well. Thanks for the time taken to respond and correct our misinformation.

We know bits about their cohesion powers enough to know what it is meant to affect if not their full capabilities in doing so, and transportation does nothing of the sort, which in my opinion leaves their non-surge ability. And we don't really know any of those yet so extreme in the supernatural. But who knows.

[snote]

We know bits about their cohesion powers enough to know what it is meant to affect if not their full capabilities in doing so, and transportation does nothing of the sort, which in my opinion leaves their non-surge ability. And we don't really know any of those yet so extreme in the supernatural. But who knows.

I'm sorry, where do we know this from? Is it a WoB? I have missed it if so, because I have read both books many times and never saw the description of the Willshaper's power. If anything though, the order's name would imply that they have the ability to control people or at least sway them. That's what comes to mind when I hear "Will Shaper" anyway. I can't say with any certainty what any of the orders can do except the ones we have directly seen in action. We have seen what, Windrunner, Edgedancer, Lightweaver, Eslecaller, and a bit of Truthwatcher. I am drawing a blank with anyone showing of Willshaper surges. I'm not being coy, I really want to know if I missed something. 

[natc]

You can literally predict the order's surges just from the chart alone. They all have two adjacent surges in sequence and all 10 surges are known by name.

And while Cohesion, Tension, and Division have currently still not been witnessed, there is a stated source on it functioning based on molecular bonds.

Found a post by Moogle with a link, found this

http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/7267-words-of-brandon-compiled-x-2/

And control-F'd "cohesion". There is something about leaving a handprint on the table just by pushing it hard enough, so intermolecular bonds is likely.

Due to their association with affinity to Shadesmar similar to Elsecallers and Lightweavers and soulcasting having been taken by those two already, by default Willshapers fall between Elsecallers and Stonewards, with Cohesion and Transportation (the source of the Shadesmar affinity).

(Truthwatchers are actually stuck with Progression and Illumination if I remember correctly, so the future sight is presumably surge-independent like memories and the "strength of squires" thing windrunners have. Of course, the non-surge ability of willshapers might do what you suggest but these skills haven't really been that blatant before.)

We basically know the exact surge combinations of everyone at this point. Just not what some of the surges do. And by some I mean only 3/10.

[Wetlander]

I would suspect that "Willshaper" would indicate being able to shape things by force of one's will, rather than being able to shape someone else's will. Just seems more logical, given Cohesion and Transportation. 

 

However: we know so very little of the "extra ability" of most Orders, we can't say anything definitive there. We also know of one Order that can... encourage certain changes in a person's self-perception, with significant results. So I don't think we can rule out the possibility of tampering with a person's mind to make them think they are something/someone they really aren't; we just don't know who might be able to do that.