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Posted

History is written by the winner. Thats a good thing to remember while writing villains.

 

It is not about good and evil, it is about conflicting interests. Curly McEvilmustache wants the Diamonds of Shirlack so he can be powerful and put an end to this stupid war, Muscle o'Hero does not believe Curly will be a good ruler or deserves the godlike powers.

 

Otherwise there are 'villains' in history. Look at their motivations. They probably believed what they were doing was right, or maybe they were selfish, maybe they were just pathetic human beings with a bit too much power.

 

Of course there is nothing wrong with complete monsters if you can make them interesting.

The problem is there are no such things as "stopping the war" or "we need more land". Everything is on much smaller scope.

 

Well, I think one thing to look at when distinguishing between hero and villain is methods. A ruler who decides to increase the quality of life in his country could easily be a hero, but if he decides to do so by slaughtering intellectuals and forcing the survivors to adopt an agrarian lifestyle, then he's a villain. You could always begin with a heroic motivation, and then twist the storms out of it until the methods used to pursue it are monstrous indeed.

The problem I see that nobody is truly heroic. Just ordinary people; battle-hardened so much they became Combat Pragmatists and if they know they will reduce collateral damage by shooting the enemy in the back after he visited his ill mother in hospital, they will do it. Their hand won't even flinch; I'm not saying they won't experience moral breakdown later, but ultimately they always know what they did was right.

 

One piece of advice I've read before is to write a villain who firmly believes in the same core ideology as you do, but who takes it way too far. So if you have an environmentalist bend, you write Poison Ivy. If you feel passionate about protecting human rights, you write Magneto.

I thought about that too: some mages believe that they have the right to interfere and brainwash politicians, others want to enforce "no intervention" rule. But ultimately I know I won't be able to write politics right, I just couldn't. I have to stick to conflicts between individuals.

I though about conflict between "keeping up Masquerade" and "we should be ruling the humans" but I feel it both too weak and too worn out to have people attack each other on sight.

Another couple of villains are dedicated to preserving the city they inhabit by any means necessary, willing to kill innocents if they feel it necessary. These are a simple type of villain to write, but an effective one. You just have to make sure that the wicked ends they go to will genuinely benefit those who survive them, or if not, that you highlight the growing irrationality in the villains' psyches.

The problem is that pretty much everyone goes by "any means necessary". If hero knows that by launching his attack he will destroy the monster, but also few people will be caught in the blast and if he waits any longer the monster will kill more people... with grief he will vaporize those poor bystanders.

Villains who act out of pure selfishness are simultaneously one of the easiest and one of the hardest types to write. They are very realistic, as people who rob, murder, and otherwise wreak havoc for their own gain are sadly common in society. But they tend to fall flat as characters in a story because, like the real-world people they're based on, they tend to be quite empty inside. You can make them more interesting by giving them attachments to family members or moral qualms, but ultimately they're fighting only for themselves and don't have a lot going for them. Compare the Lord Ruler to Straff Venture as villains. They both have their place in the story, but TLR is ultimately more interesting because his motives aren't a hundred percent selfish.

The problem is nobody is gonna run on being "evil and selfish", unfortunately.

I feel I need to explain this better:

Heroes are more gray than usual heroes.

Villains are lighter than usual heroes.

It's like Calamity showed up in our world but without... mental adjustements. If somebody goes mad with power and starts slaughtering people, he's put down. No mercy. 'Heroes' and 'villains' would even cooperate in such cases.

I have some force of Chaos which occasionaly spawns monsterlings and both 'good' and 'bad' mages feel the need to exterminate them to protect humans. They don't even disagree on the methods!

....

How would you create conflicts to have characters fight, let's say during The Final Empire? There are no different Noble Houses, no House Wars. PoV of nobles who alike hunt skaa Mistings. How do you get them to fight, both on physical level and political level?

Posted

One good way to distinguish the heroes from the villains, if they are both trying to protect humanity, might be to vary how much they feel they should be rewarded for their work. If they are willing to work thanklessly, they're a hero, but if they feel their efforts give them the right to rule or to take whatever they want, they're a villain.

Posted

Oversleep, have you ever read Vicious by V. E. Schwab? If not, then I think it might help you solidify your approach to heroes, villains, and story morality in general. It's very much a grey vs grey story, where both protagonists do terrible things and suffer terrible things. One of them does come out looking better than the other, but he's still no hero.

Posted

Read Watchmen. The 'villain' is arguably more in the right than the heroes, or ignore the entire idea of heroes and villains and just show a conflict from two sides. Make the audience make up their mind who is good and evil.

Posted

One good way to distinguish the heroes from the villains, if they are both trying to protect humanity, might be to vary how much they feel they should be rewarded for their work. If they are willing to work thanklessly, they're a hero, but if they feel their efforts give them the right to rule or to take whatever they want, they're a villain.

The problem I see is that Masquearde is kept up - nobody is getting any thanks ever and in order to rule people first Masquerade would have had been dispelled; obviously noone is gonna let that happen (at least... not right now.)

Oversleep, have you ever read Vicious by V. E. Schwab? If not, then I think it might help you solidify your approach to heroes, villains, and story morality in general. It's very much a grey vs grey story, where both protagonists do terrible things and suffer terrible things. One of them does come out looking better than the other, but he's still no hero.

I've read the reviews; that may be what I'm looking for.

Read Watchmen. The 'villain' is arguably more in the right than the heroes, or ignore the entire idea of heroes and villains and just show a conflict from two sides. Make the audience make up their mind who is good and evil.

I've seen Watchmen. How big difference is that?

Well, maybe I'm phrasing it wrong. I need antagonists who could have been declared evil (villains) if the heroes were truly heroic. But since that's not how it is, neither the antagonists are villains.

Posted
I've seen Watchmen. How big difference is that?

Well, maybe I'm phrasing it wrong. I need antagonists who could have been declared evil (villains) if the heroes were truly heroic. But since that's not how it is, neither the antagonists are villains.

I don't know, haven't seen it.

 

The villains are just criminals or rebels? The 'heroes' sound pretty bad, so there would definitely be something to rebel about.

Posted (edited)

I think I got my Weirdness Censor to both make sense and be effective. Yay! EDIT: And now it makes even more sense. B)

And I just realised how to justify Repulsors (basically Coinshot + Lurcher) being able to directly affect other mages (cause normally the limiting factor of telekinesis is it cannot affect magical things). It even makes sense.

I need to start writing those things down, I fear that at one point I may start to forget what I already got to work.

As for the whole hero/villain thing, I want groups with clashing interests... who don't differ from each other greatly. Not really evil evil villains (however I could use some at some point).

I want to both readers and in-universe characters think "It could have been me if SOMETHINGSOMETHING" or "I can totally relate to this; why are they even in conflict? Oh, right, that part is kind of unsettling... still, everybody at least once thought of that."

Edited by Oversleep
Posted

Somewhat related to your villany problem, but it works as a post on its own:

 

I have an idea floating around in my head about super powered gangs. McGuffins that give people super powers starts to appear in a city and people start fighting over them, for different reasons. One gang wants to control who gets powers and wants to make sure that only the worthy do, one thinks everyone deserves powers, does not matter who they are, one thinks the powers are too dangerous and wants no one to have powers, another one thinks they deserve to rule as they have powers and so on. The story would be told from each of the gangs viewpoints, showing them as both good and bad.

Posted

Something unrelated to my Soulsmiths:

From the recent debate about Feruchemical steel, I think I'd like to see (or maybe write myself) a short story which would include graphic descriptions of the downsides of storing attributes. I feel it was underdescribed in books. Like Brute struggling with walking, as pewtermind takes away his strength, him feeling like an old man as he feels tired just after climbing the stairs. Or Steelrunner and putting the spotlight on his breathing problems. That story would have to be internally focused, mainly describing what and how he feels, how he is sweating, those kinds of things.

Posted

So, for my Arabic class, I had to write a short story. Me being me, I decided to set it in Edassa. I post it here for your delight.

 

السيف الحاسم


أشخاص:

إحسان - بطلنا الشجاع

أحمد - صديقه مخلص

عبّاس - كاهن الحكم

إبن غالب - ساحر شرير


مكان:

مدينة رَدَحاين


مشكلة:

ساحر شرير يحاول لقهرالمدينة رَدَحاين مع سحر أسود


حل للمشكلة:

الحاسم يزور الكاهن عبّاس ثم يطعن الساحر مع السيف الحاسم



"إحسان! إحسان!" كنت أسمع خطاه. كان إبن اختي، احمد. كان يدخل غرفتي.

"السلام عليكم، ابن اختي. ما المشكلة؟"

"خالي، السماء سوداء." كان صوته خائف. كنت أبحث من النافذة. كانت الشمس مفقود. شعرت البارد. "ماذا حدث؟"

احمد لم يعرف. كان يوجد فقط شخص واحد الذي عرف. عبّاس، كاهن العذراء. عندما انا و احمد زرنا الرجل المقدس.

"مرحباً، إبني إحسان." الكاهن كان كريم و كنا نجلس. "كيف حال اسرتك؟"

"هم بخير، الحمد لله." كنت أسأل أبونا عبّاس إذا كان يسمع ألأنباء شرير.

"ماذا أنباء، إبني؟"

"السماء سوداء، و الشمس كان يختفى!"

"تعرف ان أنا أعمى، إبني. هل هذه كلمات صحيح؟" كان صوته خائف.

"هم صحيح، يا أبونا."

"ثم يوجد فقط واحد مصدر. هذا يجب أن إبن غالب، الساحر. هو يجب أن يحاول قهر المدينة."

"كيف يمكننا منعه؟"

"تجب أن تأخذ السيف الحسم، و يضربه معه."

"نعم، يا ابونا. سأفعل ذلك، إن شاء الله." فأخذت السيف الحسم، و ذهبت للعثور على الساحر مع احمد مخلص.

الساحر كان يقع على وصط المدينة، مع ضوء الشمس إلى تميمة ذهبي. هو كان حاول أن تحيط رأسي مع سحر، و لاكن أنا رفعت السيف الحاسم فوق رأسي و صرخت "بإسم لله، الرحمن، انا اضرب لك." سحره لا يمكن كان يسود ضد الإسم الرحمن، و السيف مشهور كان يضربه إلى الأرض. قطعت التميمة ذهبي إلى قطعتان، و ضوء الشمس عاد إلى السماء.

وهكذا كان استعادة السلام إلى المدينة ردحاين.

 

And, for you Phillistines who can't read Arabic, here is the translation. :P Enjoy!

 

 

The Sword of Al'Hasim

 

Characters:

Ihsan, our brave hero

Ahmed, his loyal friend

Abbas, a wise priest

Ibn Ghalid, an evil sorcerer.

 

Setting:

The city of Radahayn

 

Conflict:

An evil sorcerer tries to conquer the city of Radahayn with black magic

 

Resolution:

Ihsan visits the priest Abbas, and then takes the sword of Al'Hasim and smites the sorcerer

 

Story:

 

"Ihsan! Ihsan!"

I could hear his footsteps. It was my nephew, Ahmed. He entered my room.

"Good day, nephew. What is the problem?"

"Uncle, the sky is black!" His voice was afraid. I looked out of the window. The sun was missing.

"What has happened?" Ahmed did not know. There was only one man who could know - Abbas, the priest of the Virgin. Then Ahmed and I visited the holy man.

 

"Hello, Ihsan, my son." The priest was kindly, and we sat down. "How is your family?"

"They are fine, thanks be to God." I asked Father Abbas if he had heard the evil news.

"What news, my son?"

"The sky is black, and the sun has disappeared!"

"You know that I am blind, my son. Are these things true?" His voice was afraid.

"They are true, Father."

"Then there can only be one cause. This must be Ibn Ghalib, the sorcerer. He must be trying to take over the city."

"How can we stop him?"

"You must take the sword of Al'Hasim, and strike him with it."

"I will do it, Father, if God wills." So I took the sword of Al'Hasim, and went with loyal Ahmed to find the sorcerer.

 

The sorcerer was in the center of the city, with the light of the sun in a golden amulet. He tried to surround my head with sorcery, but I raised the sword of Al'Hasim above my head, and cried "In the name of God, the Merciful, I strike you down." His magic could not prevail against the name of the Merciful, and the famous sword struck him to the ground. I clove the golden amulet into two pieces, and the sunlight returned to the sky.

 

Thus was peace restored to the city of Radahayn.

 

 

Posted

I've run into interesting problem.

You see, Soulsmiths can teach each other their powers (as their powers are basically very complicated spells). For example, I had one mage who invented a way to directly affect other mages and set up a school. He teaches people his powerset and people taught by him go by the name "Repulsors".
Usually mages base their name on their abilities (like Epics; for example I have people such as Frost, Alchemist, Fang, Plague, Wallruner etc -those are powernames). Haesar also has such powername, "Blue Flame", but something-in-origin-I-didn't-canonize-yet is the reason he has taken a new name and surname. Several other notable mages (mainly from Generation 0) has also chose another name unrelated to their abilities.

 

While there is no official rule, mages tend to cast away powername and choose a new name after they rised in power and/or made a spectacular achievement.
The thing is, powernames tend to run out quickly - how many different names can you invent for people with gravity-based abilities? They are all classified as "Gravitiates". How many names before they all start mixing up?
Usually when somebody passes his powerset to more people, the original keeps his powername and invents a name for category. Like the first Repulsor dubbed the category for people he taught "Repulsors". But then, how are the Repulsors gonna differentiate between themselves?

It gets worse when you start classifying powers - "Repulsors" are just a specific subset of "Telekinetics". Wallrunners would be a subset of Gravitiates. So not only there are more people with the exact same powers as you but also people with similar powers.
Possible Repulsors: Crusher, Attractor (possible name-clashing with Gravitiates), Nailshot (I'm totally making a nod and having somebody ask him why wouldn't he just shoot coins), Hauler... aaaand I'm starting to have problems.

I can have windmages naming themselves after different winds, there are plenty of those. But how to create 7 different powernames for people with ability to manipulate magnetism?

Basically, once you have Superman, you can only have so many people in Super-family - Supergirl, Superwoman, Superboy...

Posted

Is it necessary for the names to have an obvious meaning? You could try using names that are related words backwards(ie Fire becomes Erif), other languages, or even dead languages.

Posted

Whelp, I've decided to introduce Francine in the first book instead of waiting until the second. I'm still waiting on EWU to get back to me with the information they found on the SCPD during the 1940s, but I feel like this story is starting to come together. 

Posted

I'm writing a thing where people yse a magic based in an energy that is literally everywhere, but most people can only hold and use a certain amount at a time. However, i also have soecerers who have access to unlimited energy, but are highly limited by their knowledge of runes.

Im trying to come up with a few ideas that would create a cost while still granting them acess to unlimited energy, so that while it is possible for them to do anything with the right shmbol, they can't run around mass producing thousands of magical swords. Any ideas?

Posted

I'm writing a thing where people yse a magic based in an energy that is literally everywhere, but most people can only hold and use a certain amount at a time. However, i also have soecerers who have access to unlimited energy, but are highly limited by their knowledge of runes.

Im trying to come up with a few ideas that would create a cost while still granting them acess to unlimited energy, so that while it is possible for them to do anything with the right shmbol, they can't run around mass producing thousands of magical swords. Any ideas?

One possibility would be to add an element of construction time or physical exertion to the magic. Then, the sorcerers wouldn't be able to mass produce magic swords because the production of magic swords takes months, or because creating them leaves the sorcerer so weekend that creating another soon after would be hazardous to their health.
Posted

Is it necessary for the names to have an obvious meaning? You could try using names that are related words backwards(ie Fire becomes Erif), other languages, or even dead languages.

The thing is that popculture and tropes are quite important. So when you gain superpowers of your own choosing and you live in the world where there are superhero comic books/films/animations, majority of mages go for a name of similar pattern, choosing another name resembling an actual name and surname after they proven themselves.

Haesar wasn't very creative with his "Blue Flame" so he prefers to use his taken name (taken? is this good word? ... chosen! CHOSEN NAME!... wait, powernames are also chosen... do you get what I'm talking about, or is it all gibberish to you?).

As for the other/dead languages, one of the main characters (mage of decay) Plague, has a sword with "Vanitas" inscribed on the blade. He named the sword "Koheleth" :D

Anyway, I admire Brandon for coming up with all those sensible Epic names.

Posted (edited)

I've considered that, but i would like some items(translators, small phone-like crystals) to be mass produceable. What do you think of each rune being limited in its usages and this being directly based on its power? That way there might only be five god-killing items, but thousands of enchanted spoons that dont get dirty.

The thing is that popculture and tropes are quite important. So when you gain superpowers of your own choosing and you live in the world where there are superhero comic books/films/animations, majority of mages go for a name of similar pattern, choosing another name resembling an actual name and surname after they proven themselves.

Haesar wasn't very creative with his "Blue Flame" so he prefers to use his taken name (taken? is this good word? ... chosen! CHOSEN NAME!... wait, powernames are also chosen... do you get what I'm talking about, or is it all gibberish to you?).

As for the other/dead languages, one of the main characters (mage of decay) Plague, has a sword with "Vanitas" inscribed on the blade. He named the sword "Koheleth" :D

Anyway, I admire Brandon for coming up with all those sensible Epic names.

A lot of Brandons epics have compound names too, rather than just adding prefixes or suffixes to related words. And if you do that then the possibilities do become almost endless:D

For instance, you can have gravity man, Gravityblast, Gravityswitch, Gravitymaker, Or just gravity. Changing the word gravity to grav gives you some other, cool-sounding names too.

Edited by Bladestorm
Posted

How about cost system where the runes use your body as a passage for the energy. The runes use your body's energy to make the passage. This means every time you use magic you will be physically weaker forever.

Posted

I might use that with the limited number of times it can be used idea, but it would be that using such massive amounts of energy ages you without actually taking your life ever. This would lead to most sorcerers being rich, cranky old men and women who spend almost as much time napping as being magical.

Posted (edited)

I'm writing a thing where people yse a magic based in an energy that is literally everywhere, but most people can only hold and use a certain amount at a time. However, i also have soecerers who have access to unlimited energy, but are highly limited by their knowledge of runes.

Im trying to come up with a few ideas that would create a cost while still granting them acess to unlimited energy, so that while it is possible for them to do anything with the right shmbol, they can't run around mass producing thousands of magical swords. Any ideas?

Try to figure out necessary catalyst to channel the power and make it high-cost/difficult to obtain.

For example, in Allomancy you have unlimited amounts of power - but there is a upper limit to how much power you can obtain at given time - we know it as maximum burn rate - and there is also the limiter of metals themselves, as you burn them away. How many times did characters run out of metals?

In Awakening, you need color to fuel it - while color is easily obtainable, your catalyst could be difficult. And so on.

 

For example, if every high-powered spell requires a diamond to properly focus the power (or something) and the diamond gets destroyed in the process, there you have it. Both unlimited AND limited power.

 

A lot of Brandons epics have compound names too, rather than just adding prefixes or suffixes to related words. And if you do that then the possibilities do become almost endless:D

For instance, you can have gravity man, Gravityblast, Gravityswitch, Gravitymaker, Or just gravity. Changing the word gravity to grav gives you some other, cool-sounding names too.

Yeah, I thought about it too, but I wanted people to figure out a name which is associated with the power, but necessarily the word itself. For example somebody with power of magnetism wouldn't want to name himself Magneto or anything like that. It's been done ten thousand times over. But Dipole? Why not.

Similarly, fire mages would avoid names with the "fire" in it, such as Firestorm or Firestar. But Furnace, Fever, Match or Phoenix are fine.

Why, you could ask. Well, imagine a meeting of Gravities:

"Hello, I'm Graviter. What are your names?"

"Gravitysurge."

"Graviton."

"Gravitron."

"Graver. No, I'm not grave-robber."

"Gravityswitch."

"Kneeldown."

"..."

"..."

"..."

"What, did you all name yourselves with something with "gravity" in it? Really? I already forgot who's who!"

Do you see where I'm coming at?

Edited by Oversleep
Posted

Try to figure out necessary catalyst to channel the power and make it high-cost/difficult to obtain.

For example, in Allomancy you have unlimited amounts of power - but there is a upper limit to how much power you can obtain at given time - we know it as maximum burn rate - and there is also the limiter of metals themselves, as you burn them away. How many times did characters run out of metals?

In Awakening, you need color to fuel it - while color is easily obtainable, your catalyst could be difficult. And so on.

For example, if every high-powered spell requires a diamond to properly focus the power (or something) and the diamond gets destroyed in the process, there you have it. Both unlimited AND limited power.

Yeah, I thought about it too, but I wanted people to figure out a name which is associated with the power, but necessarily the word itself. For example somebody with power of magnetism wouldn't want to name himself Magneto or anything like that. It's been done ten thousand times over. But Dipole? Why not.

Similarly, fire mages would avoid names with the "fire" in it, such as Firestorm or Firestar. But Furnace, Fever, Match or Phoenix are fine.

Why, you could ask. Well, imagine a meeting of Gravities:

"Hello, I'm Graviter. What are your names?"

"Gravitysurge."

"Graviton."

"Gravitron."

"Graver. No, I'm not grave-robber."

"Gravityswitch."

"Kneeldown."

"..."

"..."

"..."

"What, did you all name yourselves with something with "gravity" in it? Really? I already forgot who's who!"

Do you see where I'm coming at?

For the cost, I think I'll end up limiting it by having them fill up on energy at the same rate as regular people, but their runes cost in the thousands rather than the regular peoples teens. If they exceed their limits, they age and can die, and finally each rune can only be used a certain number of times before no sorcerer will ever be able to draw one and get an effect again.

On the topic of names, I get what your saying. There are enough options for just the characters in your story, but it's probably not realistic for the whole world. My only question is how common are these magicky-people-whose-name-i-forget? If there's only a few to a class, you might be able to make it work.

Posted (edited)

Try to figure out necessary catalyst to channel the power and make it high-cost/difficult to obtain.

For example, in Allomancy you have unlimited amounts of power - but there is a upper limit to how much power you can obtain at given time - we know it as maximum burn rate - and there is also the limiter of metals themselves, as you burn them away. How many times did characters run out of metals?

In Awakening, you need color to fuel it - while color is easily obtainable, your catalyst could be difficult. And so on.

 

For example, if every high-powered spell requires a diamond to properly focus the power (or something) and the diamond gets destroyed in the process, there you have it. Both unlimited AND limited power.

 

Yeah, I thought about it too, but I wanted people to figure out a name which is associated with the power, but necessarily the word itself. For example somebody with power of magnetism wouldn't want to name himself Magneto or anything like that. It's been done ten thousand times over. But Dipole? Why not.

Similarly, fire mages would avoid names with the "fire" in it, such as Firestorm or Firestar. But Furnace, Fever, Match or Phoenix are fine.

Why, you could ask. Well, imagine a meeting of Gravities:

"Hello, I'm Graviter. What are your names?"

"Gravitysurge."

"Graviton."

"Gravitron."

"Graver. No, I'm not grave-robber."

"Gravityswitch."

"Kneeldown."

"..."

"..."

"..."

"What, did you all name yourselves with something with "gravity" in it? Really? I already forgot who's who!"

Do you see where I'm coming at?

 

 

Are non-English names acceptable? If they are, then that widens things significantly, especially if you'd willing to include translations for the word in other contexts, and even more so if you allow some degree of bastardization/shortening in order to make them sound better. (IE, you could have gravity mages named Severitas, (Latin), Vakavuus, (Finnish), Raskus (Estonian), Mahara (Maori), etc, etc.)

Edited by Aonar Faileas
Posted

On the topic of names, I get what your saying. There are enough options for just the characters in your story, but it's probably not realistic for the whole world. My only question is how common are these magicky-people-whose-name-i-forget? If there's only a few to a class, you might be able to make it work.

Yeah, I'm not worrying much about coming up with names as I am not writing big epic with tons and tons of characters; but I tend to discuss tropes and cliches and if at some point somebody remarks that he never ever met a Gravitiate whose name includes the word "gravity" I want to be able to give examples. Then he will rant about how in comics all the characters have so similar names and how it just doesn't work.

 

Are non-English names acceptable? If they are, then that widens things significantly, especially if you'd willing to include translations for the word in other contexts, and even more so if you allow some degree of bastardization/shortening in order to make them sound better. (IE, you could have gravity mages named Severitas, (Latin), Vakavuus, (Finnish), Raskus (Estonian), Mahara (Maori), etc, etc.)

I'll let you in on a secret - I'm translating it all to English to discuss it here. All the thinking/writing I do, I do in Polish.

I'm reserving having fun with other languages to come up with chosen names (cf. my post on the previous page about decay mage with sword named Koheleth with inscription saying "Vanitas").

 

I feel I'm taking too much space in this thread; I think I will start compiling what I have so far.

Posted

The thread is made for us to critique eachother and help with problems involving our fictional worlds, so its fine. Also, I'm just considering a humanoid with both fur and feathers. Would it be possible? I know some rare animals(ie platypus) are almost combinations of animal groups, but I'm not sure if this is reasonable. Of course, I could just attribute it all to magic:P

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