SmurfAquamarineBodies he/him Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 Whether Ialai's opinion matters remains to be seen. Does Sadeas have a male heir? What are the rules of succession? Remember, Aladar became a Highprince when Sadeas duelled a rival highprince. It isn't clear to me that Ialai will be very influential going forward. Apparently, ruling takes two hands, as it seems to be a masculine art. You are making the mistake thinking that only people in charge are a threat. Lalai has a large spy network and has access to assasins. She is a threat.
Kaladin al'Thor Posted March 25, 2015 Posted March 25, 2015 Wow that took a long time to catch up on this post. How did I not know about this post??!?!?? Being the one who asked Brandon about Adolin's Blade? So even though: Syl and Kaladin consider Kaladin a Radiant at oath level 3 Pattern pushed Shallan to level 4 because another Radiant was needed. Dalinar at level 2 and Shallan at level 4 addressed each other as "Radiant" None of them are Radiants. Further, all Radiants had Blades, Plate and Ryshadium. Is an implication of this that Dalinar will never be a Radiant, because his spren is unwilling to be a Shardblade for him? Is the following quote from Brandon relevant to this part of the discussion? I personally think Dalinar will be given the Honor blade, who else would Kaladin trust to hold it? Plus Dalinar's spren not being willing to be a shard for him, it fits. We also know that a surge binder can hold the Honor blade without hearing screams because it is not a dead spren. THIS. A huge part of your bond is your intent and your belief. If Adolin truly believed (wasn't just justifying it to himself but actually believed) that killing Sadeas was the only way to protect those he'd sworn to protect then I don't think the Windrunner's would have a problem. On the other hand, if his actions were born out of expedience, revenge or rationalized thoughts of protection then I doubt he could get an Honorspren. I think, from what we know and the WoB, these are the orders he's still in the running for (barring a redemptive story about earning the rights to be something else back) Duskbringer (definitely brave) Willshaper (resolute... check) Stoneward (dependable and resourceful... sure) Lightweaver, Windrunner and Bondsmith might all be possible as well (though unlikely for story reasons) and Truthwatcher also might not care (as long as he doesn't lie to cover it up... ) Skybreaker is obvious out. I think Edgedancer (Loving and Healing? Remembering the fallen?) is out (though I realize others disagree... I'd be curious what the rationale is for that). Elsecaller is probably out (it probably wans't a "wise" thing to do... and it certainly wasn't caring)... Although even here, you could convince me that it was "caring" in the same sense as putting down a rabid dog and it was "wise" because he had the realization of the political environment to recognize there was no other way... so, with the right mindset, maybe Elsecaller COULD be justified. True enough. However, I am of the opinion killing a known mass murderer promising his next victims will be your family is morally the right thing to do even if law does not permit it. That is of course my personal opinion and my personal feelings on the matter and whereas my own personal opinions weights next to nothing as an argument it makes me believe at least some spren would agree with me. The question now is which ones? Skybreakers are definitely ruled out. This has been confirmed by Brandon ages ago, though I am still amused to see so many new comers picking them as their first choice. It makes me think the average reader (by average reader I mean the one who loved the series but never ventured on the fandoms and thus never read the WoB nor the discussions) must be of this opinion. Windrunners may not entirely be against it, but as someone else pointed out, they seemed to reject killing outside open confrontation. Sadeas did not physically threaten Adolin, he did not engage in combat which makes me think Syl would not approve, though I am unsure of this conclusion. In any cases, I do think Windrunners would not want Adolin for other reasons then the murder. Adolin never once acted out of revenge or spite. He acted out of anger, but his anger was always rooted down to his deep love for his family and his fear some harm would come their way. I do not think he was in the mind frame to rationalize anything at the time of the murder. My thoughts are he got so overwhelmed by his fears Sadeas would succeed at destroying the father he loves so much all he saw was a definite threat needing to be removed. Now. So he acted. Deep down, his actions sprouted from love which triggered fear for the safety of those he loves and finally anger towards the man who would never stop tormenting them. My initial thoughts have always been Dustbringers, because "brave and obedient" seemed like a no brainer for Adolin. I have since changed my mind. I have been convinced to switch camp by a very good argumentation I have long been deaf to, too engrossed I was within my initial position I now think Adolin will be an Edgedancer. My thoughts are now Adolin gives a false reading as a Dustbringer, because he is brave. However, if we look more closely, he is not brave for the shake of being brave. He is brave when push comes to shove, he is brave when someone needs to step up and, more importantly, he is brave when his loved ones are threaten. Dalinar once described him as "hotheaded". Another false reading. Adolin has not done one single reckless thing except his attempt to climb a vertical cliff while standing on his sword, but you can blame this one on youth and desire to impress a friend. He has acts impulsively when his emotional response to outside events gets too strong. In other words, Dalinar, your son is not reckless nor hotheaded: he is emotional. Huge difference. It means he won't seek to jump down a cliff simply because he can as a true "brave heart" would, but he will willingly sacrifice his own life if it means safeguarding Dalinar or Renarin's life. Besides, Kaladin is also brave, so is Dalinar, so is Shallan, so is Renarin and yet none are fit to be Dustbringers. Why? Because they are other driving qualities. Which is Adolin most constant quality or attribute throughout both books? His love for his father. He literally worships him is way reminiscent of a little child not able to see fault in his beloved father. Love and desire to care for those he loves is very strong in him, to the point where he stops caring about his own life. Based on this, I would say Adolin's main attribute is "loving" more then "brave". The "healing" part is less obvious. I think we are being confused by the traditional definition of "healing", referring to physical "healing". Adolin, of course, is no healer, but he does something akin to "healing" all through both books... How? In his tendency to fix every single wrong around him. He sees a prostitute being molested? Wrong. He fixed it. He sees Kaladin being unjustly put into prison? Wrong. He fixed it. He fixes wrongs around him, which we could tie to "healing" as healing does not have to strictly refer to physical health. The Edgedancer theory also got a jump forward recently with Brandon admitting his Blade once belonged to an Edgedancer... You two brought up awesome points that I never considered. Mostly when I figured that his blade was previously an ED's I thought that Adolin had a tendency to "remember" those that may be forgotten by others so it might fit. Also I believe Brandon has said that the oaths are not exactly the same person to person even within the same order. It's more of the idea you convey. Adolin's 2nd oath can be different than Lift's. If you think about it Adolin truly does fit as an ED. Yea he could fit inother orders but to me they are just as much if not more of a stretch as ED. I didnt think that Adolin would become a KR at all, I feel that he is interesting enough that he didn't need to bond a spren, but on my last re-read a few weeks ago I noticed some interesting wording. Right before he lunges at Sadeas, it says something along the lines of" Something inside of Adolin snapped." The snapping is what was really needed for a spren to fill the holes(thats what she said, sorry). I do think that he will somehow find a way to revive his spren more than ever thanks to all of your comments! I love being able to get on here and read the ideas of people who are so much more intelligent than I am!! I think Kaladin made it very clear killing a man in the dark isn't the WR way and I very much doubt a WR would murder an unarmed man. I agree with maxal and Itoo think Adolin can be ED - he's so refined he wears cologne in prison, eloquent, elegant, nice clothes and fashion sense - all outside sings of an ED. He is loving and caring towards his family and men. He thinks about all soldiers, the little darkeyed boys (let one try his helm), he cares - for the men who died on Elhokar's hunt, for all those Sadeas got killed on the Tower. While Dalinar doesn't let himself grief or get emotional about fallen men, Adolin cares deeply and gets angry, he can't turn off his emotions. A Shardblade could be revived if certain circumstances are met and Adolin has been talking to his for a long time, may be giving it some consciousness or awareness. He stopped feeling the Thrill and during his two fights with Szeth there's this Duck in italic that appears seemingly from nowhere - Blades get a little alive when summoned and when touched by a surgebinder, which didn't happen to Adolin's, but there might be something. Notice how he hasn't named his Blade because he thinks it would be wrong to give it a wrong name - that some Radiant of old named it and it wasn't his place to call the Blade something else. ED are about remembering the forgotten as far as their second oath goes and Adolin's been remembering his mother. It's only fitting he gets to learn the real name of his Blade. edit: spelling More great ideas! Sorry I forgot why I specifically quoted you. I was using what I considered did not make sense as an argument. We already have a character for each order except the DB. Szeth and Eshonai have to become KR as they have a flashback. The last spot, the DB spot in the flashbacks was given to a Herald: Shalash. None of it made sense. Just from my understanding, and I might be mistaken, just because Szeth and Eshonai get their own flashback sequences does not mean they will become KR. Brandon said that each order will have a focused book. and that 10 characters will have a flashback sequence. I dont believe he said that they would line up like the first two have or that they would be a KR. Also a fun tidbit, they also don't have to be alive in the main plot in the book their flashbacks take place. NO ONE IS SAFE! I disagree with Adolin becoming an Edgedancer, even after my reread. It just doesn't add up in my opinion. Yes, he's friendly, lovable, charismatic, has a graceful style while he duels, and his Shardblade has vines when he summons it. But that doesn't equate to him becoming an Edgedancer, ESPECIALLY since he already has Lift as the Edgedancer whom he'll be dedicating a book to in the late series. It makes no sense for Brandon to dedicate two books to TWO Edgedancers. For what? As far as his Shardblade belonging to a Edgedancer, well, Adolin did discard his blade after he murdered Sadeas. The lost of his cherished blade, a long with the murder and the events to follow after the murder is what will break Adolin spiritually. He will guilt himself, for possibly setting his father plan back. He will probably isolate himself or maybe Dalinar will be force to exile his son. One quote stood out to me, that seems to line up with what a Dustbringer is even though we have little information about them from the epigraphs. A long with this quote... We have WoB that some orders would applaud the deed that Adolin has done, while some will frown upon it (Skybreakers and Windrunners. I have no clue why people he has a shot with the two) and when pressured, he nodded when someone asked if the Dustbringers will approve. The Dustbringers seem like an Order that will do what the others won't. To me, the Dustbringer seems like an Order that belives, ' The ends justify the means. ' They are an Order who the Heralds send out as a last resort. Leave no witnesses. Burn everything to the ground. If anyone reads The Dresden Files, I'd even line up the Dustbringers to the Ebenezar and the Black Staff. I don't have the exact quote, but I do remember Jim stating that there isn't a special election for it, all it'd take is for someone crazy enough to pick up the Staff, knowing exactly what the role entails. Someone BRAVE enough to do what no one else will, and someone OBEDIENT enough to Honor to not stray. The Dustbringers seem like an Order, who will have to do what is necessary, even though it's illegal in the eyes of the law ( Skybreakers ), and to protect ( Windrunners ) innocent from the Voidbringers, they will have to destroy with an extreme prejudice, and are the ones brave enough to stand tall (Stonewards) while doing the deed, while others will hesitate. We have 10 books, dedicated to 10 orders. Windrunner ( Kaladin ) Skybreaker ( Szeth ) Edgedancer ( Lift ) Bondsmith ( Dalinar ) Lightweaver ( Shallan ) Elsecaller ( Jasnah ) Truthwatcher ( Renarian ) Stonewards ( Taln/Not!Taln? ) Which only leaves to. Eshonai or maybe even Sebariel as a Willshaper (though I doubt the later), and Adolin who has my vote as Dustbringer. It has been addressed but I quoted you to say that he did not discard HIS blade, it was Dalinar's. and that Adolin is not in line to have his own book. i am fairly certain the 10 books have been confirmed, correct me if i am wrong. 1- Kal 2-Shallan 3-5 Dalinar, Eshonai, Szeth(unknown order at the moment) 6-10 Jasnah, Renarin, Lift, Shalash, Taln(or who we assume is Taln) Thanks for all the awesome posts on this thread! I am re-reading WoK at the moment looking for more signs of this and will pay more attention when I get to WoR.
Guest Posted March 25, 2015 Posted March 25, 2015 Wow that took a long time to catch up on this post. How did I not know about this post??!?!?? Being the one who asked Brandon about Adolin's Blade? You are? Good question! :lol: You had me jumping in my living room when I read it... Aleksiel and I had a huge discussion a while back in one of the oldest Adolin threads about the possibility of him becoming an ED. I previously was in the DB bandwagon, but after giving ED a lot of thoughts it did jump onto that wagon. This particular WoB was the consecration Him reviving his Blade is such an adorable theory, I do not want to hear about any other theory :ph34r: :ph34r: You two brought up awesome points that I never considered. Mostly when I figured that his blade was previously an ED's I thought that Adolin had a tendency to "remember" those that may be forgotten by others so it might fit. Also I believe Brandon has said that the oaths are not exactly the same person to person even within the same order. It's more of the idea you convey. Adolin's 2nd oath can be different than Lift's. If you think about it Adolin truly does fit as an ED. Yea he could fit inother orders but to me they are just as much if not more of a stretch as ED. I didnt think that Adolin would become a KR at all, I feel that he is interesting enough that he didn't need to bond a spren, but on my last re-read a few weeks ago I noticed some interesting wording. Right before he lunges at Sadeas, it says something along the lines of" Something inside of Adolin snapped." The snapping is what was really needed for a spren to fill the holes(thats what she said, sorry). I do think that he will somehow find a way to revive his spren more than ever thanks to all of your comments! I love being able to get on here and read the ideas of people who are so much more intelligent than I am!! More great ideas! Sorry I forgot why I specifically quoted you. This has been brought up in the past, but nobody really hook on it until recently. Ever since I have tried to be one of the advocate in favor of Adolin becoming an Edgedancer. I happen to think Adolin not becoming a KR would make him boring in the long run... He would always be out-classed in all armed encounters as surgebinders and horrific creatures start to walk the earth again. I see no purpose for the previously superb fighter to shrink down to nothing as his arms soon won't allow him to keep up unless it serves to break him... Adolin is an interesting character because he has not broke yet. Many, many, many things I could say about the snap.... Just from my understanding, and I might be mistaken, just because Szeth and Eshonai get their own flashback sequences does not mean they will become KR. Brandon said that each order will have a focused book. and that 10 characters will have a flashback sequence. I dont believe he said that they would line up like the first two have or that they would be a KR. Also a fun tidbit, they also don't have to be alive in the main plot in the book their flashbacks take place. NO ONE IS SAFE! You took my quote out of context. I am essentially saying the same thing you are. Flashback and main KR characters won't always be the same. Not having a flashback book does not prevent Adolin from becoming a major KR viewpoint. Especially since his big breaking moment has not happened yet, whereas it happened in the past for our other characters. Hence, he does not need a flashback.
CodeMnke she/her Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 Just a random thought on Adolin and the Edgedancer theory (i am actually not convinced but i do find it intriguing)... I will remember those who have been forgotten .... Like the very spren of his shardblade?
Guest Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 (edited) Just a random thought on Adolin and the Edgedancer theory (i am actually not convinced but i do find it intriguing)... I will remember those who have been forgotten .... Like the very spren of his shardblade? Good one I will remember my late mother everybody else seems to have forgotten. I will remember the soldiers who died under my command. I will remember my Blade is still alive. You will see, the Adolin becomes and Edgedancer theory grows on you. Edited April 9, 2015 by maxal
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