tdogpete he/him Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 I apologize profusely for the lack of a credible source on this topic, but I wanted to get this off my chest. I read in the forums a while ago, and I came across a WoB I which he said that a spren could technically have their own spren, like Syl attracting her own (she could have an actual worshipper now). I was just wondering as to the process a spren would have to go through to achieve this. Would the original spren have to operate on a separate set of ideals to have it, or would only the Radiant be required to follow it? And if the original spren had to follow a separate set of ideal, would its bond with the Radiant deteriorate at the same time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosted Flakes Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 I would be very interested in reading that WoB if you can find it again. Spren fascinate me. They're cognitive ideas/concepts that, through investiture (Spiritual) from Shards/Adonalsium have become sentient. After the Nahel bond, they can take physical form, fleshing out the last of the three aspects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kipper he/him Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 I cannot find a WoB for that anywhere, but I guess I'm just not searching with the right keywords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleksiel Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 I think the canon is spren don't attract spren. If you can find this WoB, please link it, because I haven't seen it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheese United he/him Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 The real question is, would there be a spren of a spren? ie. The cognitive idea of a spren. So you've got your regular spren, and they are a large part of life on Roshar. Enough so that's it's possible for them to have become a big enough cognitive Idea to have their own spren, a "spren-spren" persay. Any one feel like shooting me down on this? And also on the topic of the OP, I would love to see that WoB if you ever see it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king of nowhere Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 syl said that she cannot have sprens, but maybe she is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Star Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Lightflame was right, there actually are sprenspren. Speaking of Lightflame, I haven't seen him on here in a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kipper he/him Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Lightflame was right, there actually are sprenspren. Speaking of Lightflame, I haven't seen him on here in a while. If you could find the quote, I would be much obliged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurkistan he/him Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 The real question is, would there be a spren of a spren? ie. The cognitive idea of a spren. So you've got your regular spren, and they are a large part of life on Roshar. Enough so that's it's possible for them to have become a big enough cognitive Idea to have their own spren, a "spren-spren" persay. Any one feel like shooting me down on this? And also on the topic of the OP, I would love to see that WoB if you ever see it again. While it pains me each and every time that people refer to the ideals that spren are based upon as cognitive, I wouldn't be surprised if there were some overarching "Spren" ideal that serves as a superclass of all the ideals that manifest spren. I personally doubt, though, that such an ideal would manifest a spren of its own, as it might well be too general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kipper he/him Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Honestly, it pains you if people attribute anything to the Cognitive, Kurk. Although I do agree on this one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurkistan he/him Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 (edited) Honestly, it pains you if people attribute anything to the Cognitive, Kurk. Although I do agree on this one. And so the panda shows his inexperience. As a fun fact, I've actually always (well, since TES at least) been fairly big proponent of the importance of the Cognitive; but then it became all "hip" and "cool" for everyone to attribute Cognitive explanations to everything under the sun. These posers need to get off my lawn, is all I'm saying. Edited February 19, 2015 by Kurkistan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kipper he/him Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 And so the panda shows his inexperience. As a fun fact, I've actually always (well, since TES at least) been fairly big proponent of the importance of the Cognitive; but then it became all "hip" and "cool" for everyone to attribute Cognitive explanations to everything under the sun. These posers need to get off my lawn, is all I'm saying. Yeah, yeah. I agree with you. It's just that EVERY SINGLE TIME someone mentions the Cognitive, I think, "Yep, here comes Kurk," and sho nuff, you do. It's just kind of funny. It's like a summoning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Star Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 @Snoopy - RAFOspren: These Spren appear when someone asks Brandon or RJ a question they don't want to answer.- Sprenspren: These Spren appear whenever a Spren appears. Since appearing Spren include Sprenspren, all Spren appearances summon infinite hordes of Sprenspren.- Sprenbackwards: These appear when something goes in reverse.- Stormspren: These Spren appear in the centres of Highstorms. Since they like to cosplay as the Voidbringers and Lost Radiants, they create the old wives' tale that those guys lurk in Highstorms. It was a joke post, obviously. His 103% accurate list of everything that will happen in stones unhallowed is awesome. But I haven't seen him in a while Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kipper he/him Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 @Snoopy It was a joke post, obviously. His 103% accurate list of everything that will happen in stones unhallowed is awesome. But I haven't seen him in a while I must see this list... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheese United he/him Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 It's a pretty funny list. Also, could someone tell me what term I should use instead of cognitive, for future reference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kipper he/him Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 It's a pretty funny list.Yes it was. I found it.Also, could someone tell me what term I should use instead of cognitive, for future referenceThe problem isn't the term itself, as it is one of the three Realms. The problem is when people attribute too much to the Cognitive Realm. I'll try to find an example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurkistan he/him Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Yeah, yeah. I agree with you. It's just that EVERY SINGLE TIME someone mentions the Cognitive, I think, "Yep, here comes Kurk," and sho nuff, you do. It's just kind of funny. It's like a summoning. Clearly you've never been to Singapore a thread where someone mentioned time bubbles or FTL, if you think my response to "cognitive" is impressive. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kipper he/him Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Clearly you've never been to Singapore a thread where someone mentioned time bubbles or FTL, if you think my response to "cognitive" is impressive. Time bubbles, yes. Although I'm not as interested in them as you are. I mainly just look for your posts on time bubbles, because you know everything about them. I'm working on a similar "Everything we know" thread about Hemalurgy.FTL, hoo boy. I haven't even bothered with that much. It's just so speculative right now... In conclusion, keep up the good work! I relish your posts greatly! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurkistan he/him Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Good luck with Hemalurgy. You're right that the info on that topic's a bit vague. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoser he/him Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 I need to start a troll thread about cognitive time-bubble based FTL. The problem is that Kurk has always been able to see through my BS even when I didn't realize that I was BSing. What is this thread about? Oh yeah, spren's spren. Maybe it ties into the fundamental nature of the Cognitive. I get that spren are created based on investiture and intelligent thought. But how is the thought associated with the spren? If someone has a passing thought about the wind being capricious, that probably doesn't create a windspren. But somehow the effect of many thoughts get aggregated to create a single windspren. How does that focusing occur? Looking at it another way, consider the Stormfather. He started out as a splinter of Honor and focused the thoughts about Honor and storms after the splintering. Why? Why wasn't a different spren of Honor created by people's thinking about Honor? Why aren't there Almighty spren, as well? I don't get how the thoughts that invest spren are channeled to create the spren we see. If we assume that spren can't have spren, we can ask why. People thinking about things creates spren. Assume that spren thinking about things doesn't create spren. People are more physical and more spiritual than spren. Is it the thought by beings that are also more spiritual that causes spren to be attracted and created? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaladin he/him Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 (edited) Hold on. There are sprenspren? What about sprensprenspren? Sprensprensprensprenspren? Could you cut (shatter) a piece of Investiture into infinitely many pieces (think geometric series)? How about sprensprenspren... ? (That was supposed to be an infinite sprensequence. I think I would need to introduce some notation here). EDIT: an explanation concerning the geometric series: imagine a metaspren is half as "big" as the spren it is attracted to. Then the amount of investiture required for there to be an infinite chain of spren is 1 + 1/2 + 1/4 + 1/8 + ... = 2, where the units are 1 = "size" of the original spren. Edited February 21, 2015 by Xaladin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosted Flakes Posted February 21, 2015 Report Share Posted February 21, 2015 And so the panda shows his inexperience. As a fun fact, I've actually always (well, since TES at least) been fairly big proponent of the importance of the Cognitive; but then it became all "hip" and "cool" for everyone to attribute Cognitive explanations to everything under the sun. These posers need to get off my lawn, is all I'm saying. Ah! Please forgive, for I am guilty. Intellectually I know that spren are based off Spiritual Ideals...I'm just lazy and keep saying "Cognitive" rather than something like "Cognitive interpretation/manifestation of the Spiritual." Also, I accidentally down voted Snoopy when I tried to tap "quote" for Kurkistan's post. Someone throw him an up vote please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleksiel Posted February 21, 2015 Report Share Posted February 21, 2015 Ah! Please forgive, for I am guilty. Intellectually I know that spren are based off Spiritual Ideals...I'm just lazy and keep saying "Cognitive" rather than something like "Cognitive interpretation/manifestation of the Spiritual." Also, I accidentally down voted Snoopy when I tried to tap "quote" for Kurkistan's post. Someone throw him an up vote please. Done Also, spren are manifestation of spiritual Ideals? I admit I've missed that. Why 'ideal' and not 'idea' or am I thinking a wrong definition of the word? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosted Flakes Posted February 21, 2015 Report Share Posted February 21, 2015 No, you're correct. Imagine that in the Spiritual Realm exists the most Ideal form of fire. All other earthly fire is an inaccurate imitation. The closer to the Ideal Fire a fire is, the more likely it is to attract a flamespren. Everything has an Ideal form in the Spiritual Realm. And I'm pretty sure the Cognitive Realm is where this Ideal is interpreted. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but unless I'm mistaken then that is at least the prevailing theory, if not outright WoB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardcellist Posted February 21, 2015 Report Share Posted February 21, 2015 The problem isn't the term itself, as it is one of the three Realms. The problem is when people attribute too much to the Cognitive Realm. I'll try to find an example.I think that it is just because recent information, The Emperor's Soul, and The Stormlight Archive have helped make the Cognitive Realm relatively well delineated.As for the quote on Ideals (spoilered for length): Are flamespren, are they all doing their own thing, or is there some Ideal of "Fire" sitting in the Spiritual Realm that they're all based on? BRANDON SANDERSON Each spren is based on the Ideal of Fire. KURKISTAN And is that sitting in the Spiritual Realm? BRANDON SANDERSON Yes, we're using sort of a Platonic Ideal, and that concept is in force, so < sounds hesitant > "yes", but [spren] are manifestations of it. KURKISTAN So these Ideals in the Spiritual Realm: Divine Breath, does that heal by accessing some Ideal of Human Health: so a guy who had never had a tongue and doesn't know how to speak all the sudden has a tongue and can speak? [Note: Talking of Susebron here] BRANDON SANDERSON You are... < LONG pause > You are, um, on the right track. KURKISTAN Okay... BRANDON SANDERSON Because the Breath is... eh. How can I explain this? You are, yeah... So... So each Breath is a shade of deity, right? KURKISTAN Yeah. BRANDON SANDERSON And each Breath incorporates into it this sort of idea of being endowed by the deity Endowment, correct? KURKISTAN Yes. BRANDON SANDERSON And so each Breath you hold brings you one step closer to becoming like that, and so what you're saying is... is "yes", kind of true, yes. KURKISTAN But it's like within the Breath, not sitting off by itself— BRANDON SANDERSON Yes, yes yes exactly. Thanks to Kurkistan for that WOB! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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