HurinThalion Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 So here's what I found browsing the coppermind today: The Recreance was the day when all the KR abandoned their duties and spren, and the spren "broke," according to Syl. There were usually three Bondsmiths, and (at least) one of them had bonded the Stormfather, presumably. (http://coppermind.net/wiki/Order_of_Bondsmiths) The Spren "broke" when they were abandoned in the Recreance. So why didn't the Stormfather "break?" 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Joe in the Bush Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 We don't know yet. It might be because he was Stronger than the others. My Personal headcannon is that The Bondsmith didn't abandon their duties, they were assassinated, thus causing the Recreance. 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurinThalion Posted February 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 Makes sense... have an upvote for your headcanon, putting you at exactly 2000. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Joe in the Bush Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 Cool. Thanks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pifferdoo Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 I've always thought that the Stormfather didn't exist until after Honor was Splintered, and that Dalinar was the first Surgebinder to Bind him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blad3mast3r Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 I thought the Stormfather was just a Big-ish chunk of Honor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 The Stormfather claims he won't be a Blade for Dalinar. Perhaps that was a restriction all Bondsmiths shared? That may explain why. The Stormfather never went into the Physical like Syl and the other spren do, so he couldn't have been trapped there. 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvoraen Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 We don't know yet. It might be because he was Stronger than the others. My Personal headcannon is that The Bondsmith didn't abandon their duties, they were assassinated, thus causing the Recreance. Well at least I'm not alone in thinking this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zea mays Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 We don't know yet. It might be because he was Stronger than the others. My Personal headcannon is that The Bondsmith didn't abandon their duties, they were assassinated, thus causing the Recreance.Headcanon accepted.Question raised: Who (or what?) assasinated them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Joe in the Bush Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 Ask Dvorean. It was his Theory that caused me to believe this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yafeshan Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 Bondsmith assasination theory is a very good one but I still believe something bigger than that caused the recreance. I also think stormfather is bonded for the first time since there is the everstorm to concern about. Dalinar taking up honor shard at the end wouldn't be bad too . He deserves it even now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unhinged Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 The Stormfather claims he won't be a Blade for Dalinar. Perhaps that was a restriction all Bondsmiths shared? That may explain why. The Stormfather never went into the Physical like Syl and the other spren do, so he couldn't have been trapped there. That's possible, If Bondsmith spren can't become blades then when his knight abandoned his/her oath then the Stormfather would have just lost his mind and become a mindless spren, with no purpose other than blowing the winds as he always has. But then you have the question of what happened to snap him back to sentience. Although that could have something to do with people seeing him as the personification of honor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 Bondsmith assasination theory is a very good one but I still believe something bigger than that caused the recreance. I also think stormfather is bonded for the first time since there is the everstorm to concern about. Dalinar taking up honor shard at the end wouldn't be bad too . He deserves it even now. He probably deserves it, but we don't want too many cosmere series to end in Ascension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaze1616 Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) My personal opinion is that the Stormfather isn't a spren. As a result, he cannot take a weapon form, nor can he appear physically. I've always thought that the Stormfather didn't exist until after Honor was Splintered, and that Dalinar was the first Surgebinder to Bind him. The Stormfather did exist before Honor was splintered. It was in a recent Q&A, I'll try to find it for you. Edit: Not complete verification, but here you go: source -What is the relationship between Nightwatcher and Cultivation?I expected a hard RAFO, but he said Nightwatcher compared to Cultivation is similar to Stormfather compared to Honor Seeing as Cultivation is still alive and unshattered while the Nightwatcher is kickin', it is a reasonable conclusion that the Stormfather was still around when Honor was alive and whole as well. As an additional note, I feel like we've got another WoB that more specifically addresses this, but I cannot find it. Edited February 17, 2015 by Blaze1616 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shlee Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 Lots of competing views on this one. My personal opinion: The stormfather was a very strong spren before the Recreance, like the Nightwatcher is currently. She is sentient in the physical realm without the bond, and I think he was also. How that relates to power and/or Investiture, or whatever, is beyond me, but to me, that puts those particular spren a step above the "regular" sentient spren, such as honorspren and cryptics, that lose their sentience in the physical realm without the bond (and which are themselves a step above "nonsentient" spren, such as flamespren, that are just bits of ideas pulled briefly into the physical). I don't think its out of the realm of possibility for those more sentient/powerful spren to not "break" in the exact same way. Since these particular spren are sentient without the bond, I don't necessarily think that losing the bond means losing their sentience, like it does for the others. So instead of losing his form and becoming trapped in the physical realm "dead" like the shardblade spren, I think he just broke his mind some, and now is kind of mentally unstable. Perhaps before the Recreance he had more powers than just being part of the highstorm and now he's "trapped" as the highstorm spren. Who knows. But, like I said, this is purely my personal speculation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pifferdoo Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 Maybe the Stormfather is just too proud to be a Blade. Why should he become a tool for a Knight when he is the Stormfather? --It's also worth mentioning that the Honorspren (at least Syl) refer to the Stormfather as "Father" and that the Stormfather calls them "Daughter" (or at least Syl) in return. Maybe all the orders have a big fancy spren that's like the progenitor of all the other spren, though I doubt it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurinThalion Posted February 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 --It's also worth mentioning that the Honorspren (at least Syl) refer to the Stormfather as "Father" and that the Stormfather calls them "Daughter" (or at least Syl) in return. Maybe all the orders have a big fancy spren that's like the progenitor of all the other spren, though I doubt it. Actually, I had noticed something similar yesterday night while rereading WoR. Wyndle said (page 694 of the hardcover) "What did you ask for, when you visited my mother?" to Lift. Lots of competing views on this one. My personal opinion: The stormfather was a very strong spren before the Recreance, like the Nightwatcher is currently. She is sentient in the physical realm without the bond, and I think he was also. How that relates to power and/or Investiture, or whatever, is beyond me, but to me, that puts those particular spren a step above the "regular" sentient spren, such as honorspren and cryptics, that lose their sentience in the physical realm without the bond (and which are themselves a step above "nonsentient" spren, such as flamespren, that are just bits of ideas pulled briefly into the physical). I don't think its out of the realm of possibility for those more sentient/powerful spren to not "break" in the exact same way. Since these particular spren are sentient without the bond, I don't necessarily think that losing the bond means losing their sentience, like it does for the others. So instead of losing his form and becoming trapped in the physical realm "dead" like the shardblade spren, I think he just broke his mind some, and now is kind of mentally unstable. Perhaps before the Recreance he had more powers than just being part of the highstorm and now he's "trapped" as the highstorm spren. Who knows. But, like I said, this is purely my personal speculation Syl mentioned to Kaladin that her father was "broken" once. We all assumed she meant mad, but what if that "breaking" or going mad was because of the Recreance? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyth Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 I agree with Lord Pifferdoo. My interpretation was that he was too proud, or didn't feel Dalinar was "worthy" of his trust in bearing him as a Shard. In fact I think it's very possible Dalinar will prove his awesomeness to the Stormfather and, in a clutch moment, save Dalinar by finally materializing as a super badass shardblade! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 If a Syl-sized spren can make a human sized blade maximum I wonder if Stormfather can get bigger than that. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honor's Radiance Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 I've always thought that the Stormfather didn't exist until after Honor was Splintered, and that Dalinar was the first Surgebinder to Bind him. I've actually been wondering recently if the Bondsmiths didn't originally bond the Shards themselves somehow. I'm not sure how, because they're not spren (unless they could in some way be classified as creationspren?). But if the original Bondsmiths bonded something else, that would account for it. The Stormfather claims he won't be a Blade for Dalinar. Perhaps that was a restriction all Bondsmiths shared? That may explain why. The Stormfather never went into the Physical like Syl and the other spren do, so he couldn't have been trapped there. This sort of makes sense, although wasn't the Stormfather always the one creating the highstorms? So he had some sort of physical presence, even if it wasn't connected to the Radiants. Or maybe that's actually the key--that he did have a physical presence other than that which was related to the Radiants, and thus survived being betrayed. That's possible, If Bondsmith spren can't become blades then when his knight abandoned his/her oath then the Stormfather would have just lost his mind and become a mindless spren, with no purpose other than blowing the winds as he always has. But then you have the question of what happened to snap him back to sentience. Although that could have something to do with people seeing him as the personification of honor. Or maybe it has something to do with his relationship to the listeners? Because the other spren are personifications of things before they become sentient, and they become sentient when they take physical form and begin talking to people. It depends entirely on when the listeners lost track of all the forms and had to start discovering them from scratch. Because if that happened before the Recreance, then their interaction with the Stormfather can't have been what preserved his sentience. I don't think its out of the realm of possibility for those more sentient/powerful spren to not "break" in the exact same way. Since these particular spren are sentient without the bond, I don't necessarily think that losing the bond means losing their sentience, like it does for the others. So instead of losing his form and becoming trapped in the physical realm "dead" like the shardblade spren, I think he just broke his mind some, and now is kind of mentally unstable. Perhaps before the Recreance he had more powers than just being part of the highstorm and now he's "trapped" as the highstorm spren. Who knows. But, like I said, this is purely my personal speculation This makes a lot of sense. There's definitely an element of crazy in the Stormfather now, and a spectacular level of disdain and disregard for the humans that I'm inclined to think wasn't there before the Recreance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnshard Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 I was sure that the Stormfather was a splinter of Honor not a spren. He is more. Also at the end of the book he mentions to Dalinar that he will not be bound in a way to kill him. So I think that was the first time he had bonded someone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 I was sure that the Stormfather was a splinter of Honor not a spren. He is more. Also at the end of the book he mentions to Dalinar that he will not be bound in a way to kill him. So I think that was the first time he had bonded someone. He is a splinter of a shard, and so is every other spren (honor, cultivation, odium, or adonalsium types included as well as hybrids), seon, skaze, and divine breath in existence. He's just unusually powerful due to his apparent origin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkness Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 I thought the Stormfather was the cognitive ideal of the Almighty (Honor). Kind of like flamespren are similar to the cognitive ideal of 'fire'. He's obviously developed sentience, but I figured he was initially defined by men's idea of the Almighty, like Nightwatcher is for Cultivation. If that true, then it could make more sense of why Syl and Wyndle call the Stormfather and Nightwatcher 'Father' and 'Mother' respectively, and why the Stormfather calls Syl 'daughter' in return. The Stormfather is basically programmed to be like the Almighty, so he would see honorspren -at least a little bit- as offshoots of himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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