Lightflame he/him Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 My new theory is that Spren are fragments of the Knights Radiant. Each Knight would presumably have the various aspects of them split into many Spren, sort of like Adonalsium. Reasons: 1. Spren didn't start appearing en masse until the Knights Radiant abandoned the people of Roshar. 2. Spren grant people the powers of the Knights Radiant. 3. There were female Knights in Dalinar's vision. Therefore, Syl could be a Radiant. (This isn't support for the Radiants being Spren. Instead, it means that it is possible for Syl to be a Radiant, regardless of gender roles.) 4. As his link with Syl grows stronger, the oaths of the Knights Radiant appear in Kaladin's mind. 5. The Knights Radiant gave up their Shardblades for some reason. Syl also has a strange hatred of Shardblades. 6. Syl comes to "remember" human concepts, almost as if she used to be a human. So, what do you think? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortaan he/him Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 My new theory is that Spren are fragments of the Knights Radiant. Each Knight would presumably have the various aspects of them split into many Spren, sort of like Adonalsium. Reasons: 1. Spren didn't start appearing en masse until the Knights Radiant abandoned the people of Roshar. 2. Spren grant people the powers of the Knights Radiant. 3. There were female Knights in Dalinar's vision. Therefore, Syl could be a Radiant. (This isn't support for the Radiants being Spren. Instead, it means that it is possible for Syl to be a Radiant, regardless of gender roles.) 4. As his link with Syl grows stronger, the oaths of the Knights Radiant appear in Kaladin's mind. 5. The Knights Radiant gave up their Shardblades for some reason. Syl also has a strange hatred of Shardblades. 6. Syl comes to "remember" human concepts, almost as if she used to be a human. So, what do you think? Really kind of baseless. Spren are mentioned by Nohadon way before the Recreance. There's no evidence that I can think of that spren aren't around in their current concentration in the far past. Not trying to shut you down, I'd like to hear some evidence to back up any points. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 I had a theory that they were the glyphs on KR armour, I tried to tie it in with the Vorin practice of burning prayers but I never really formed anything on it. It seems obvious that they are tied up in some manner with the Recreance. I did just have an idea, someones probably had this one already but what if the Spren used to be Shards? (The Plate and Blade variety) would explain where the majority of them went when the KR gave them up, possible explanation to Syls hatred of the Blade (Either because they are spren who were never freed or because they are evil spren of some form) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pechvarry Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 Why not splinters of the heralds instead? The power no longer focused into singular beings, it spreads out into its own pseudo-ecology of the forgotten power of 9 heralds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 I'm pretty sure the Heralds are all more or less still about the place so I'm not sure how they could turn into Spren. I'm going to need to do another read through to look for any evidence yay-or nay but I've also got my WoT read through to go! What's a poor bibliophile to do? I feel like there is something about the origin of the spren that we need to know, Brandon hinted that they would be important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightflame he/him Posted September 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 Really kind of baseless. Spren are mentioned by Nohadon way before the Recreance. There's no evidence that I can think of that spren aren't around in their current concentration in the far past. Not trying to shut you down, I'd like to hear some evidence to back up any points. I did mention in my thread title that it was a bit of a baseless theory. I'm still only about 300 pages into my WoK reread, so I might actually find some evidence for my theory later on. Until then, it can go down in history as the most baseless theory on the 17th Shard. (Unless someone beat me there. Hoid really is right about timeliness.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shikaree Posted September 9, 2012 Report Share Posted September 9, 2012 (edited) Really kind of baseless. Spren are mentioned by Nohadon way before the Recreance. There's no evidence that I can think of that spren aren't around in their current concentration in the far past. Not trying to shut you down, I'd like to hear some evidence to back up any points. Doesn't necessarily mean spren are not related to the radiants. My theory is something similar. The heralds created the orders of radiants. The spren could be the souls (or something of the sort) of the people who died fighting with the heralds, during any desolation. It doesn't have to be the radiants who betrayed mankind after the last desolation. (rather, it seems like the true radiants abandoned their blades and the "radiants" who did betray mankind were the unqualified people who picked them up) There are probably 10 different radiant spren, each of which corresponds to one of the 10 essences, which also corresponds to one of the 10 orders of radiants. And the dead radiant-soul-spren seek out people who would fit into their order and bond with them to give them additional powers. WoK shows two: the soulcasting spren and Kaladin's honorspren. This could also be the origins of the whole die and go fight with heralds in tranquiline halls. In reality, you die, become spren, and fight with the heralds and radiants during the next desolation. The soulcasting spren seems tied to truth. On the handy chart at the end of the book, entry number 6 conveniently associates blood with creative / honest. I think ample evidence that strongly favors some sort of connection with radiants can be found in chapter 38, when Kaladin is seeing deathspren. Standing before the deathspren was a tiny figure of light. Not translucent, as she had always appeared before, but of pure white light. That soft, feminine face had a nobler, more angular cast to it now, like a warrior from a forgotten time. Not childlike at all. She stood guard on his chest, holding a sword made of light.That glow was so pure, so sweet. It seemed to be the glow of life itself. Whenever one of the deathspren got too close, she would charge at it, wielding her radiant blade. I'd like to think the words were chosen carefully. I do strongly agree with 5. The Knights Radiant gave up their Shardblades for some reason. Syl also has a strange hatred of Shardblades. which I hadn't thought about. I also do agree with 4. As his link with Syl grows stronger, the oaths of the Knights Radiant appear in Kaladin's mind. which I did notice. =p During the last fight Syl asks Kaladin for the words, which turns out to be the second ideal of the radiants. I believe not even Dalinar knew those words and he's been studying that stuff. He only knew the first. Edit: Oh, and of course, there are a bunch of other... regular... spren. I don't think there's enough evidence to really support any detailed theories regarding them. Edited September 10, 2012 by Shikaree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zas678 he/him Posted September 13, 2012 Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 Just a note, though I'm not sure I agree with your theory. Nohadon doesn't mention spren. He does mention a "Nahel Bond", but no spren. I think. I'm pretty sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj26792 he/him Posted September 14, 2012 Report Share Posted September 14, 2012 I thought he said something like the Nahel Bond is no proof of... ... Not all spren are as discerning as honourspren. Im almost certain I remember something about the discernment of spren somewhere in the book and no one else was in a position to say that. Id find the quote and check but I dont have the book handy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyRioter she/her Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 Yeah he said that, unfortunately I loaned my book to my dad while he's on vacation so I can't look it up either, but I know it's there. The chapter is called "to want what we cannot have" I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 Alakavish was a Surgebinder. He should have known better. And yet, the nahel bond gave him no more wisdom than a regular man. Alas, not all spren are as discerning as honour spren. This the quote? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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