campino Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 I can't find this theory anywhere else on the forum, so I'm hoping it's not a rehash. I have an idea about emotional allomancy that I am having a hard time thinking of how to explain. So I'll try to explain it by analogy to physical allomancy. "When you push against something - whether with allomancy or with your hands - it goes directly in the opposite direction. Force, reactions, consequences." - TFE, Nook edition p. 136 When you Push (steel) on something, you increase the distance between yourself and that object. If it is smaller than you this happens as the object moves farther away, and if it is bigger it happens as you move away from the object. Similarly, when you Pull (iron) on something, you decrease the distance. Again, the heavier, larger object stays stationary and the lighter, smaller object moves. Is it possible that emotional allomancy works the same way? If I try to Push (soothe, Brass) on someone's emotions, but their emotions are "heavier" than mine (deeper, more stable, etc), would I instead be pushed the other way? Imagine a situation in which Allomancer A is with Friend F who is afraid. F is really really firmly solid in his fear. A is trying to not be afraid, so is more calm than F, but not really solid. If A tries to Soothe away (Push) F's fear, would F's fear Push back since it is "heavier" than A's calm? "Force, reactions, consequences." 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeshdan he/him Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 I can't find this theory anywhere else on the forum, so I'm hoping it's not a rehash. I have an idea about emotional allomancy that I am having a hard time thinking of how to explain. So I'll try to explain it by analogy to physical allomancy. "When you push against something - whether with allomancy or with your hands - it goes directly in the opposite direction. Force, reactions, consequences." - TFE, Nook edition p. 136 When you Push (steel) on something, you increase the distance between yourself and that object. If it is smaller than you this happens as the object moves farther away, and if it is bigger it happens as you move away from the object. Similarly, when you Pull (iron) on something, you decrease the distance. Again, the heavier, larger object stays stationary and the lighter, smaller object moves. Is it possible that emotional allomancy works the same way? If I try to Push (soothe, Brass) on someone's emotions, but their emotions are "heavier" than mine (deeper, more stable, etc), would I instead be pushed the other way? Imagine a situation in which Allomancer A is with Friend F who is afraid. F is really really firmly solid in his fear. A is trying to not be afraid, so is more calm than F, but not really solid. If A tries to Soothe away (Push) F's fear, would F's fear Push back since it is "heavier" than A's calm? "Force, reactions, consequences." I doubt this, mainly because this effect is never mentioned in the books, and I think Elend or Vin would have noticed when they started using duralumin-enhanced brass/zinc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thought Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 I agree with Reader, but that's a really interesting take on it, Campino. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurkistan he/him Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 (edited) I have to disagree on this too. While it is odd that--as far as I know--we have never seen any negative consequences from using Mental Allomancy (and there very well might still be a few consequences lurking out there) I doubt that this is one of them. Edited August 17, 2012 by Kurkistan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aradel he/him Posted August 19, 2012 Report Share Posted August 19, 2012 The force of the push is the same whether it is the metal or the allomacer being moved. Normal physics determine which gets thrown around. Since normal physics don't have rules for mental manipulation, I don't think a rebound is possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady_Yasha she/her Posted August 20, 2012 Report Share Posted August 20, 2012 It's a nice concept but the laws of Physics don't apply to superficial ideas of emotion and thought. Precisely what governs Allomantic Steel and Iron is the manipulation of magnetic attraction/repulsion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aradel he/him Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 It's a nice concept but the laws of Physics don't apply to superficial ideas of emotion and thought. Precisely what governs Allomantic Steel and Iron is the manipulation of magnetic attraction/repulsion. Except for the part about magnetism. Steel/Iron Allomancy can affect any significant amount of metal, regardless of whether or not it's magnetic. The attraction/repulsion is very similar, and is governed mostly by inertia, force, and leverage. None of which have anything to do with emotions, as you rightly said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady_Yasha she/her Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 Except for the part about magnetism. Steel/Iron Allomancy can affect any significant amount of metal, regardless of whether or not it's magnetic. The attraction/repulsion is very similar, and is governed mostly by inertia, force, and leverage. None of which have anything to do with emotions, as you rightly said. I realised that was wrong when it was brought up in IRC. I was only thinking of the baser properties without considering the implications, which evolved into a scientific debate of us all trying to rationalise Allomancy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortaan he/him Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 It's entirely possible the downside to being a Rioter/Soother is being less able to distinguish Rioting/Soothing on yourself. Take a look at Breeze/Allriane. Breeze, being the Soother he is, probably should have been able to figure out he was being Rioted skillfully. Instead, he was pretty oblivious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 It's entirely possible the downside to being a Rioter/Soother is being less able to distinguish Rioting/Soothing on yourself. Take a look at Breeze/Allriane. Breeze, being the Soother he is, probably should have been able to figure out he was being Rioted skillfully. Instead, he was pretty oblivious. I can't remember exact wording and I'll look up the quote when I can but Allrianne actually mentions how incredibly difficult it is to manipulate Breeze as he is so aware of his own emotions and those of the people around them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortaan he/him Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 I can't remember exact wording and I'll look up the quote when I can but Allrianne actually mentions how incredibly difficult it is to manipulate Breeze as he is so aware of his own emotions and those of the people around them. Hrm, I remember that now. Then I'm not sure. But I would imagine that the effect is a correspondingly mental external effect, if the pattern holds true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer Posted August 25, 2012 Report Share Posted August 25, 2012 I can't remember exact wording and I'll look up the quote when I can but Allrianne actually mentions how incredibly difficult it is to manipulate Breeze as he is so aware of his own emotions and those of the people around them. What if the consequence of Emotional allomancy is that other Soothing/Rioting affects you more powerfully? Might explain the difficulty of using it on somebody like Breeze. Or maybe there just isn't a consequence we have any way of knowing yet. *Grumbles about waiting for the next trilogy* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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