Question 5

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

I looked at a few churches in the Dalles, and this one is the best match for the Koschei massacre site.  It's a Mormon church, and it is closest to the description in this post.  It's a pointed, brick building with a steeple.  However, there are a couple of issues.  Mormon steeples don't have crosses, and it isn't on the edge of town.  But I have headcanon for that.  I may have gotten a little bit carried away...

Headcanon:

After Calamity, there was some initial destruction.  Most of the buildings in the Dalles, including most of the churches, are made of wood, so even a minor fire epic could cause a lot of damage.  Maybe the epic had a personal vendetta against churches, or maybe it was just bad luck, but one way or another, most of the churches in the Dalles (along with many of the houses along the southeast end of the city) burned before somebody managed to put the fire epic down.  After the fire, many of the people of the Dalles just left.  They wanted to be with their families, and it just wouldn't be worth it to try to rebuild.  A town as small as the Dalles just didn't seem like it was worth fighting for.  

There were others who refused to leave.  Maybe they had nowhere to go, or maybe they were just stubborn.  People banded together to build new homes for those who had none.  Rather than converting a building near the new center of town to a church, they decided to restore the old one.  It became a multi-denominational church, with a cross on the steeple, but with meetings for those of all faiths.  People of all religions would travel to the edge of town to meet in an old brick church, because to them it was a symbol that there are some things that Epics will never destroy.  

When Koschei the Deathless arrived, they were singing the first verse of How Great Thou Art.  Later verses refer to Christ specifically, but the first verse can apply to anyone's god.  Imagine people of all different faiths, gathering together to praise God.  Epics were considered forces of nature.  Stopping an Epic would be like stopping a storm.  But these people sang together that when they heard the rolling thunder, they would cry out to God, "How great thou art!"  They didn't know that Koschei was coming, that he was going to take their lives, but they had faced others before.  When they saw an Epic, they didn't say, "Why have you forsaken me, God?"  They said, "No matter how powerful you are, God is greater."  Koschei thought he was deathless, but he was wrong.  In the end, he was just another passing storm.  Their faith was what truly couldn't be killed.  

 

Wow. That is a very detailed headcanon. I admit I hadn't put as much detail into my thought process when I sought out churches in The Dalles. 

 

I actually didn't have a specific church in mind when I wrote that scene. I'd looked at various churches in The Dalles to get an idea of general architectural trends, and then described the church according to the most common attributes. (I was actually somewhat afraid of getting too many details right about an actual church there; when I started that scene, I wasn't entirely sure where it was going. I knew it would end in horror, but I wasn't sure how, so I used a fictional church to avoid accidentally implying anything about a real one.) Emmanuel Baptist Church (technically in Chenoweth) could be considered a match, although I'd describe it as "sprawling" rather than "narrow" and "pointed." 

 

As for this church's denomination, I too pictured it as interdenominational. My personal headcanon was that although many believers still embraced denominations nominally, in practice the lines between the different sects became blurred after Calamity brought all the social difficulties it did. It's difficult to claim Catholics aren't really Christians—as, sadly, some Protestants do—when you're in a refugee center, watching a priest care for a burn victim like she's his own daughter. So by the time Koschei came into town (roughly six years after Annexation Day) people simply attended whichever church was closest to where they lived. Some churches in communities traditionally divided by denominations (for instance, the downtown area where no fewer than ten churches are located would have had some families attending Seventh Day Adventist services, with others going to Baptist or Mormon or Foursquare churches, even if they lived down the street from one another) would have seen an influx of attendees from other denominations. These churches may have put various pastors in a rotation of sorts—congregants would hear a sermon from an SDA pastor one week and one from a Catholic priest the next. I have it in my head that some of those churches might even embrace the American colonial Quaker practice of not having a pastor; like the Quakers, they would probably sing a few songs, then sit and allow whoever had a word or insight they felt led to share to come forward and share it. Since those churches would almost certainly be of mixed denominations, there would be quite a bit of discussion and even debate on various doctrinal points. 

 

….

 

Where was I again? 

 

Oh. Right. The church Koschei attacked wasn't really based on any existing church. 

[Edgedancer he/him]

All the talk about religion made me think about which of my Epics would represent which sin. The whole exercise ended quickly when I realized that Nighthound is all of them except maybe envy.

[Voidus]

All the talk about religion made me think about which of my Epics would represent which sin. The whole exercise ended quickly when I realized that Nighthound is all of them except maybe envy.

I'd actually have to say that Wrath is another, creepy he may be but Nighthound just doesn't compete with Epics like Nightwielder for pure wrath.

[Kobold King he/him]

All the talk about religion made me think about which of my Epics would represent which sin. The whole exercise ended quickly when I realized that Nighthound is all of them except maybe envy.

When does he exhibit Sloth? Whatever else you can say about Nighthound, he seems to be an industrious little tike. If anything Voidgaze is closer to Sloth.

I looked at a few churches in the Dalles, and this one is the best match for the Koschei massacre site.  It's a Mormon church, and it is closest to the description in this post.  It's a pointed, brick building with a steeple.  However, there are a couple of issues.  Mormon steeples don't have crosses, and it isn't on the edge of town.  But I have headcanon for that.  I may have gotten a little bit carried away...

Headcanon:

After Calamity, there was some initial destruction.  Most of the buildings in the Dalles, including most of the churches, are made of wood, so even a minor fire epic could cause a lot of damage.  Maybe the epic had a personal vendetta against churches, or maybe it was just bad luck, but one way or another, most of the churches in the Dalles (along with many of the houses along the southeast end of the city) burned before somebody managed to put the fire epic down.  After the fire, many of the people of the Dalles just left.  They wanted to be with their families, and it just wouldn't be worth it to try to rebuild.  A town as small as the Dalles just didn't seem like it was worth fighting for.  

There were others who refused to leave.  Maybe they had nowhere to go, or maybe they were just stubborn.  People banded together to build new homes for those who had none.  Rather than converting a building near the new center of town to a church, they decided to restore the old one.  It became a multi-denominational church, with a cross on the steeple, but with meetings for those of all faiths.  People of all religions would travel to the edge of town to meet in an old brick church, because to them it was a symbol that there are some things that Epics will never destroy.  

When Koschei the Deathless arrived, they were singing the first verse of How Great Thou Art.  Later verses refer to Christ specifically, but the first verse can apply to anyone's god.  Imagine people of all different faiths, gathering together to praise God.  Epics were considered forces of nature.  Stopping an Epic would be like stopping a storm.  But these people sang together that when they heard the rolling thunder, they would cry out to God, "How great thou art!"  They didn't know that Koschei was coming, that he was going to take their lives, but they had faced others before.  When they saw an Epic, they didn't say, "Why have you forsaken me, God?"  They said, "No matter how powerful you are, God is greater."  Koschei thought he was deathless, but he was wrong.  In the end, he was just another passing storm.  Their faith was what truly couldn't be killed.  

Wow. Really awesome work! This is as awesome as the Harry Potter fans who worked out where Durmstrang is located. Upvote!

[Seonid he/him]

Newan, that is not only excellent and well-thought through headcanon, but it is also meaningful and deep. Thank you.

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

All the talk about religion made me think about which of my Epics would represent which sin. The whole exercise ended quickly when I realized that Nighthound is all of them except maybe envy.

 

Lucentia would be pride. She is pride incarnate. (Does anyone else feel the irrational urge to punch Pride Incarnate in her smug little face? No? Just me? )

 

I'd actually have to say that Wrath is another, creepy he may be but Nighthound just doesn't compete with Epics like Nightwielder for pure wrath.

 

You could argue that he has the slow-burning type of wrath, but I think Lightwards represents it far better. 

 

When does he exhibit Sloth? Whatever else you can say about Nighthound, he seems to be an industrious little tike. If anything Voidgaze is closer to Sloth.

 

In his intro post, when he has a hound dragging his rickshaw (!!!) even though he could probably walk ten times farther than his hound could drag it, that could be an example of sloth. 

 

….

 

Insanity and Flightiness aren't deadly sins, are they? Neither is (checks list) selfishness, though I suppose Envy would be the closest to that. Quota doesn't really represent any of the cardinal sins, either, though he represents a host of others (cruelty among them). Koschei definitely represents Pride, Wrath, Greed, and arguably Envy as well. 

[Kobold King he/him]

Lucentia would be pride. She is pride incarnate. (Does anyone else feel the irrational urge to punch Pride Incarnate in her smug little face? No? Just me? )

 

 

You could argue that he has the slow-burning type of wrath, but I think Lightwards represents it far better. 

 

 

In his intro post, when he has a hound dragging his rickshaw (!!!) even though he could probably walk ten times farther than his hound could drag it, that could be an example of sloth. 

 

….

 

Insanity and Flightiness aren't deadly sins, are they? Neither is (checks list) selfishness, though I suppose Envy would be the closest to that. Quota doesn't really represent any of the cardinal sins, either, though he represents a host of others (cruelty among them). Koschei definitely represents Pride, Wrath, Greed, and arguably Envy as well. 

 

I'd rather throw Lucentia into the event horizon of a black hole. She could heal from a simple punch in the face.

 

Lightwards is just the kind of pretentious person who would talk about people "trembling before his wrath," too. 

 

He can also adequately embody Pride, Greed, and Envy. Pretty much the only sin he doesn't touch is Lust. (Unless a lust for power counts.)

[Voidus]

Backtrack I guess?

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

Who would be Lust anyway? I mean, if we aren't counting for power, it's kind of disturbing. I mean, sure a lot of them are lustful, but none that I can recall being like Nighthound and cruelty. Of course, I'm only up to page 17 in the Portland thread (as in reading it), so maybe you guys have a better idea. 

 

Once Nighthound kidnaps Ray, he comes to represent lust quite well.  

 

You know what would be kind of awesome? Nighthound vs. a badchull Catholic priest. (Who holds his own. And lives.) The embodiment of arguably every cardinal sin vs. a badchull man of the cloth? Please tell me I'm not the only one who thinks that could be flipping awesome. 

[Kobold King he/him]

Once Nighthound kidnaps Ray, he comes to represent lust quite well.

 

You know what would be kind of awesome? Nighthound vs. a badchull Catholic priest. (Who holds his own. And lives.) The embodiment of arguably every cardinal sin vs. a badchull man of the cloth? Please tell me I'm not the only one who thinks that could be flipping awesome. 

 

"The power of God compels thee... as does my fist."

 

 

I've not gotten that far yet...not sure if I want to. 

 

Backtrack sort of represents Lust in a comically dorky sort of way.

 

As for the Nighthound/Ray relationship... it's disturbing, but there's nothing explicit. Honestly the worst that's happened on that front is a couple of very creepy hugs. Certainly a violation, but not quite the dark and gritty material you're probably thinking of.

[Edgedancer he/him]

When does he exhibit Sloth? Whatever else you can say about Nighthound, he seems to be an industrious little tike. If anything Voidgaze is closer to Sloth.

Wow, I completly managed to forget sloth.

 

Lucentia would be pride. She is pride incarnate. (Does anyone else feel the irrational urge to punch Pride Incarnate in her smug little face? No? Just me? )

 

 

You could argue that he has the slow-burning type of wrath, but I think Lightwards represents it far better. 

 

 

In his intro post, when he has a hound dragging his rickshaw (!!!) even though he could probably walk ten times farther than his hound could drag it, that could be an example of sloth. 

 

….

 

Insanity and Flightiness aren't deadly sins, are they? Neither is (checks list) selfishness, though I suppose Envy would be the closest to that. Quota doesn't really represent any of the cardinal sins, either, though he represents a host of others (cruelty among them). Koschei definitely represents Pride, Wrath, Greed, and arguably Envy as well. 

No your not the only one, although I´m with Kobold a punch to the face isn´t enough, at least not when one of us does it.

 

Lightwards does represent wrath better to be sure. Although, to put more blame on Nighthound, I don´t think that since his fight with Funtimes and Lightwards no one really did something to anger him. That invisible guy didn´t do enough for Nighthound to mind and Ray amuses him. I think Funtimes once did something to his pants/belt but ran away immediately, so he didn´t really have a chance to retalliate.

 

I would call selfishness a mix of pride and greed, personally.

 

Once Nighthound kidnaps Ray, he comes to represent lust quite well.

 

You know what would be kind of awesome? Nighthound vs. a badchull Catholic priest. (Who holds his own. And lives.) The embodiment of arguably every cardinal sin vs. a badchull man of the cloth? Please tell me I'm not the only one who thinks that could be flipping awesome. 

Originally I intended for Nighthound to never show any interest in women, period. Simply because I knew that the result would be horrible but then there was that storming writting prompt by Brandon. (I supposse a couple of Epics that got mentioned/ are planned would fill the sin better than Nighthound and Backtrack but no one that made an apperance yet.)

 

So basically a good Kirei Kotomine vs Nighthound? Sounds perfect to me.

 

As for the Nighthound/Ray relationship... it's disturbing, but there's nothing explicit. Honestly the worst that's happened on that front is a couple of very creepy hugs. Certainly a violation, but not quite the dark and gritty material you're probably thinking of.

Yeah, I´m doing my best to keep that from going out of control but the worst that is happening in that "relationship" has nothing to do with sexuality.

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

The Nighthound/Ray stuff is more the psychological brand of disturbing. Like Kobold and Edge said, it's nothing more than a few creepy hugs, but those are the creepiest hugs I've seen anywhere in fiction. Proof that it doesn't have to be explicit to be disturbing, with a good writer at the helm.

Selfishness as a mix of pride and greed...I can see that. Though it could also be considered a maturity issue, in my opinion.

[Kobold King he/him]

The Nighthound/Ray stuff is more the psychological brand of disturbing. Like Kobold and Edge said, it's nothing more than a few creepy hugs, but those are the creepiest hugs I've seen anywhere in fiction. Proof that it doesn't have to be explicit to be disturbing, with a good writer at the helm.

Selfishness as a mix of pride and greed...I can see that. Though it could also be considered a maturity issue, in my opinion.

 

Exactly. And I think all the Seven Deadly Sins ultimately boil down to putting yourself before others.

 

In other news... it's Brandon Sanderson's birthday!

 

[Edgedancer he/him]

The Nighthound/Ray stuff is more the psychological brand of disturbing. Like Kobold and Edge said, it's nothing more than a few creepy hugs, but those are the creepiest hugs I've seen anywhere in fiction. Proof that it doesn't have to be explicit to be disturbing, with a good writer at the helm.

Selfishness as a mix of pride and greed...I can see that. Though it could also be considered a maturity issue, in my opinion.

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

However you want to take it, I won't judge.

(Though it was meant as a compliment. )

[Edgedancer he/him]

However you want to take it, I won't judge.

(Though it was meant as a compliment. )

Then I shall be merciful and call it a compliment.

 

So did you start reading Alcatraz or only the sample chapters?

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

Then I shall be merciful and call it a compliment.

So did you start reading Alcatraz or only the sample chapters?

It's the actual book. I saw it at my library back during finals, and since I felt I didn't have time to start a new book and risk being hooked, I gave it to my sisters first. They loved it, and I've just now started. (Though I'm far enough to assume my Talent is probably panicking about tests I have a good chance of acing. )

[mail-mi he/him]

New Reader post up! This time with flashback!

[Edgedancer he/him]

New Reader post up! This time with flashback!

 

Reader was just omnipotent, not immortal.

Ignoring the glaring overconfidence, I don´t think Reader knows what omnipotence is. I´m pretty sure someone that can do everything can also do something to keep his mortality at bay.

[mail-mi he/him]

Ignoring the glaring overconfidence, I don´t think Reader knows what omnipotence is. I´m pretty sure someone that can do everything can also do something to keep his mortality at bay.

 

....doesn't omnipotent mean all-knowing? If it isn't, what's the word that starts with omni- that does mean all-knowing? I'll change it to that. 

[Edgedancer he/him]

....doesn't omnipotent mean all-knowing? If it isn't, what's the word that starts with omni- that does mean all-knowing? I'll change it to that. 

That would be omniscient. Omnipotent is something like the christian god that can literally do everything.

 

[mail-mi he/him]

 

That would be omniscient. Omnipotent is something like the christian god that can literally do everything.

 

 

 

Got it. Changing that now.

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

That would be omniscient. Omnipotent is something like the christian god that can literally do everything.

...that's how I read it--as Reader being so arrogant he thinks his (kinda puny) power makes him literally godlike.

[mail-mi he/him]

...that's how I read it--as Reader being so arrogant he thinks his (kinda puny) power makes him literally godlike.

 

No, he is well aware of his limitations, especially with Koschei at his side. 

[Edgedancer he/him]

...that's how I read it--as Reader being so arrogant he thinks his (kinda puny) power makes him literally godlike.

To be fair, even if he was that arrogant he would have contradicted himself immediately.