Odium’s Oaths

[Namle84]

After Wind and Truth, I think there is a problem regarding the various oaths that existed between Odium and Honor.

We know that Odium was constrained by agreements with the other Rosharan Shards, and we saw those agreements made in the Tanavast flashbacks. The question is which agreement was responsible for one specific constraint: Odium’s inability to directly harm Hoid at the end of Rhythm of War.

In the epilogue of Rhythm of War, after Taravangian takes up Odium, he confronts Hoid.

He explicitly says:

“I cannot harm you.”

He then notices that Hoid is storing memories in Breaths and reasons:

“I don’t believe this will cause you actual harm… Yes, it seems my predecessor’s agreements will allow me to—”

this means that some agreement inherited from Rayse prevented Odium from directly harming Hoid, while still allowing him to destroy Breaths storing memories.

 

Then, at the climax of Wind and Truth, Dalinar says:

“I break all oaths and contracts that Honor has made with Odium—all of them.”

A few lines later we are told:

“The contract, including Honor’s binding of Odium to this world, was finished.”

All of these agreements are now void. so after becoming Retribution, Taravangian simply vaporizes Hoid. No agreement protects him any longer.

 

The Puzzle

Wind and Truth shows us several major agreements on screen.

 

Soon after Odium arrives on the planet, all three shards gather and agreed to the following

1. To remain and share the Rosharan system.
2. To limit the powers granted to followers to prevent another Ashyn.

Much later, Honor and Odium agree to the following:

1. Honor will deal with Ba-Ado-Mishram for Odium.
2. Odium will agree to a contest of champions at an unspecified time in the future.

The problem is that none of these agreements obviously explains why Odium could not directly harm Hoid.

Yet the Rhythm of War epilogue means that some agreement did exactly that.

Possible Explanations

Option 1: There was another agreement we were never shown.

Option 2: The restriction is an implication of an agreement we were shown, possibly in conjunction with other factors, such as the general rules that govern Shards.

For example, if becoming a Shardic steward of Roshar carries obligations toward the inhabitants of the system, that might explain why Odium could not simply vaporize people at will.

The difficulty here is Hoid. He is not Rosharan, and not even mortal. Why would he be included in such a protected class?

Conclusion

Some agreement clearly protected Hoid, and that agreement was voided when Dalinar renounced all oaths, enabling the vaporization of Hoid.

What I find surprising is that Wind and Truth spends a great deal of time explaining the history of Shardic agreements on Roshar, yet never seems to identify the specific agreement responsible for this restriction.

I fear that this is just a consequence of the book’s quick editing, and that the writing here could’ve been better. I suspect the answer is that there was just another agreement that wasn’t shown on page. But I hope there is a better explanation.

[Frustration]

That was the agreement made in RoW, Hoid tells Jasnah that one of the clauses explicitly protects him as an agent of Honor

[Namle84]

Ooh, nice.  Can you point me to a citation? I don’t have the book on hand now, but looking at the Coppermind article on the contest of champions, it seems to suggest that the inability to harm most people is a prior limitation placed on Odium by Honor

Edited 4 hours ago by Namle84

[Frustration]

1 hour ago, Namle84 said:

Ooh, nice.  Can you point me to a citation? I don’t have the book on hand now, but looking at the Coppermind article on the contest of champions, it seems to suggest that the inability to harm most people is a prior limitation placed on Odium by Honor

Don't trust anything in the coppermind you can't confirm yourself, Ruin has corrupted quite deeply.

Shards can't directly harm most people just as a default. During the first round of agreements with Odium, Honor and Odium both made an agreement that limited how much they could interact with mortals.

Hoid however wasn't specifically protected and had to hide himself until the agreement with Odium in RoW.

I unfortunately am also without my books so I can't give you a quote

[Jult]

  

2 hours ago, Namle84 said:

I don’t have the book on hand now

24 minutes ago, Frustration said:

I unfortunately am also without my books so I can't give you a quote

I do and I can!

Quote

"You've told me he would destroy you if he found you."

"We'll add a line to the contract," Wit said, "naming me as a contractual liaison for Honor - whom Dalinar represents. This will protect me from Odium's direct attacks for the life of the contract. He will have to abide by those terms, as they are part of the promise Rayse made by taking up the Shard of Odium. To fail that promise would give others an opening against him, and said failures have killed gods before. Odium knows it."

Note: Jasnah is the first speaker. -RoW Chapter 99

I will say the bit I highlighted sounds as if there's more to it than the contract alone. But Frustration is right. It's largely the contract protecting Hoid.

[Namle84]

Hmm… this answers my question specific to Hoid, but seems like it just bumps the question up a level.

@Frustration says there was, in the first round of agreement, something that protected most people but not Hoid. But what we see in Wind and Truth is limits in granting power to people, not on harming them

[Jult]

47 minutes ago, Namle84 said:

But what we see in Wind and Truth is limits in granting power to people, not on harming them

We aren't shown the agreement that Kor drew up in its entirety, but I don't think it only limited how power could be granted. It was described as restricting all interactions with the mortals.

Quote

"HMMM..." RAYSE SAID, STROLLING THROUGH THE SNOW. "NO, WE DO NOT WANT ANOTHER... SITUATION LIKE ASHYN. BUT WOULD YOU HAVE US CUT OFF ALL CONTACT WITH THE MORTALS? THEY NEED GODS, TANNER. AND I'VE NEVER MET A DRAGON WHO COULD RESIST BEING WORSHIPPED."

"WE CAN INTERACT," KOR SAID, "IF WE HAVE LIMITS."

"WHAT LIMITS DO YOU PROPOSE?" RAYSE ASKED.

The whole point of the agreement was to limit the damage they did to Roshar. I'd be surprised if it didn't include some rules about just directly smiting Rosharans.

 

There are also some lines here and there that might imply the original agreement between the participants in the Shattering involved some stipulations around attacking mortals. Also, even if it wasn't part of the agreement, abusing your power is probably a good way to get all of the other Vessels mad at you. 

[NameIess]

Just now, Jult said:

We aren't shown the agreement that Kor drew up in its entirety, but I don't think it only limited how power could be granted. It was described as restricting all interactions with the mortals.

The whole point of the agreement was to limit the damage they did to Roshar. I'd be surprised if it didn't include some rules about just directly smiting Rosharans.

 

There are also some lines here and there that might imply the original agreement between the participants in the Shattering involved some stipulations around attacking mortals. Also, even if it wasn't part of the agreement, abusing your power is probably a good way to get all of the other Vessels mad at you. 

I agree. Making limits on the powers you can grant mortals is a moot point if you can just smite anyone opposing you. Although Honor could have protected his followers from the smiting, that would’ve les to direct conflict again, which they were trying to avoid.

[Namle84]

I do like the idea of general limits on what shards can do to mortals. It’s not like Ruin is going around smiting people either, even though it seems like the intent would want to

Edited 23 minutes ago by Namle84