The wind, earth and night

[diamond]

I’ve been wondering, can someone bond the ancient spren?

[PanLin they/he]

Nice, easy, straightfoward answer: yes!

Excerpt from Wind and Truth, chapter 21:

Spoiler

Some six thousand years ago, when the Stones wanted a legacy in the form of a child of Honor and Cultivation. Back when Bondsmiths bonded not to spren, but to the ancient forces, left by gods.

Bonds in some form exist all over the shop across the Cosmere—Aviar, seons, skaze, aethers, shardblades, shardplate, gemhearts, and almost certainly others. The special thing about Roshar is just how Honor and Cultivation formalised the processes, oaths, and power sets of the Knights Radiant.

Personally, I think those earlier bonds (before Honor and Cultivation created the Knights Radiant) may have been less structured and potentially given access to different abilities, but essentially, yes, it was possible.

Edited March 20 by PanLin

[Treamayne]

Welcome back to the Shard. Please consider an Intro Post to let us know what you have or have-not read (whichever list is shorter). Also, please consider checking out the Sharder FAQ for some useful forum info and tips.

50 minutes ago, diamond said:

I’ve been wondering, can someone bond the ancient spren?

We do not yet have WoBs on this, but it seems like it may be possible, based on similaries with The Sibling and Nightwatcher.

We do know that, historically, Wind Stone and Night were the original three Bondsmith Spren - so it was possible before, but we don't know if it remains possible. 

Presumably, that will be covered in the back half. 

WaT Ch 21:

Spoiler

“When was the Nightwatcher created?” Jasnah whispered to Ivory. “We call her the Old Magic, but how long has she been around? When did Cultivation form her?”

Before Ivory could answer, a voice whispered back from a nearby air vent. “The Nightwatcher came from the Night, as the Stormfather came from the Wind. Though, when I was young, the Wind was different. So very different.”

“When were you created, Sibling?” Jasnah asked.

“Some six thousand years ago, when the Stones wanted a legacy in the form of a child of Honor and Cultivation. Back when Bondsmiths bonded not to spren, but to the ancient forces, left by gods.”

“And the Stormfather?”

“Soon before me.”

Hope that helps

Edited March 20 by Treamayne
SPAG

[diamond]

That’s what I thought, thx

[Nitpicking]

I mean, I think Kaladin actually does have a bond to the Wind, but it isn't a Radiant-type Nahel bond. He constantly talks about how the air is his, winds do what he wants, she follows him around and aids him somewhat the way Syl does (and Syl is a Splinter of Honor mixed with the Stormfather who is a corrupted fragment of the Wind, so Syl has Wind Investiture herself) ....

The Wind is an Adonalsium spren and is older than the Shards. She probably doesn't work exactly like any of the post-Adonalsium Splinters.

[Xanpheon]

The concept of Spren as a whole is quite interesting. Obviously they're splinters, but to what extent are "splinters" and "spren" interchangeable? WE know that the morphological differences between each "type" of sentient spren is largely down to what proportion of Cultivation and Honor make up each of them, but what about the emotionspren, or other lesser spren? We know they already existed before any of hte Shards arrived on Roshar, they were part of what prompted the creation of the sentient spren by the two Shards. They're obviously Spren too, but are they associated with any shardic intent? Or are they, instead, perhaps proof of splinters existing independent of Shardic Intent?

The Wind wanted to protect "all spren" from being absorbed by Odium. This seems to include emotionspren and Cultivationspren, even after the fusion into Retribution he shouldn't have had any control over their constituent investiture as they likely weren't created by Honor.

[Treamayne]

10 hours ago, Xanpheon said:

but what about the emotionspren, or other lesser spren? We know they already existed before any of hte Shards arrived on Roshar, they were part of what prompted the creation of the sentient spren by the two Shards. They're obviously Spren too, but are they associated with any shardic intent? Or are they, instead, perhaps proof of splinters existing independent of Shardic Intent?

All investiture is assigned to one or more Shards.. For Roshar, the lesser spren based on Nature and natural phenomenae are of Cultivation, the Spren based on emotion and cognitive concepts are of Honor. WoBs:

Spoiler

Quote

Questioner

Abstract concepts, have representations in Shadesmar. Fear, whatever. So, now we are going into complete nerd-land. I'm a programmer. the things that I program, the programs that I make, to me they are discrete things that kind of come alive. So the question is-- The first part of the question would those have a representation in Shadesmar?

Brandon Sanderson

So here's the thing. A lot of people have to collectively start doing this for it to come alive. And it's not just any abstract concept, it is an abstract concept related to the Shards that are there and Investiture actually actively coming to life bearing that sort of personality and attribute. So that's-- you see things relating to human emotions, you can see things related to nature, because of Cultivation, you see a lot of things relating to how people interact with one another, from Honor. So the answer to that is that seems-- That's not really what spren are doing, but programmingspren you could see something coming from

Questioner

Programmingspren, but not a spren for a specific program.

Brandon Sanderson

Unlikely, yeah to have a spren for a specific program. There are some really weird spren, that are different. So it's not impossible, but it's not likely either.

Shadows of Self release party (Oct. 5, 2015)

Quote

Overlord Jebus

Is all Investiture in the cosmere associated with a Shard?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, well, okay. So this is a complicated one. *pauses* So, Investiture predates the Shattering of Adonalsium, all Investiture was from Adonalsium, all Investiture got assigned to one of the 16 Shards when Adonalsium was Shattered. Some of the Investiture was not on Yolen but location is irrelevant. So Investiture is related to Shards even on planets where none of the Shards are inhabiting. 

Overlord Jebus

Are they aware of that Investiture?

Brandon Sanderson

That's part of the whole seeing into the infinite, being beyond even the power of a Shard. So, technically you could make the argument that Harmony could feel the sense of Preservation on every world in the cosmere, right? Because the building blocks of all life and creation are these things.

Overlord Jebus

So the Shard of Preservation embodies all preservation in the cosmere?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes but he just can't do that, right? Like, he's not infinite. The Vessels are not, even if their minds are enormously expanded by holding a Shard, they are not infinite. The Connection is all there in the Spiritual Realm.

Oathbringer London signing (Nov. 28, 2017)

 

Quote

VeryNiceName16

A while ago you told us that all Investiture in the Cosmere was assigned to a Shard at the Shattering, and that Investiture purified of Shardic alignment was impossible. Since then, we’ve seen Dawnshards, aethers, the Old Magic gods on Roshar (Wind/Stone/Night), and purified Dor. Are these things all still aligned to Shards? Have you changed how this works?

Brandon Sanderson

I've tweaked it a little bit. I still imagine it's all still aligned to a Shard, but it's more in its history. And I've begun letting it be wiped a little bit more, and things like that. I do think that, for instance, the old gods were Shardic-aligned, when happened. They kind of predate the Shattering, but kind of not. When you read Wind and Truth you can kinda figure that out.

I'm letting it be wiped of Intent and for all intents and purposes acting like it is completely wiped. But that's not really 100% possible. All Investiture came from Adonalsium. (Asterisk: the Aethers claim they didn't.) And therefore, all Investiture still came from Adonalsium, even if you... If you file off the serial numbers of something, it's still the thing. You just don't recognize it. That's where I am right now on this. It's a good question. I could change on this. This is one of those ones where I could change on as things go along. Because, again, the Aethers claim they are not derived from Adonalsium.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 7 (Dec. 19, 2025)

 

Hope that helps

Edited March 25 by Treamayne
SPAG

[Willshaper42 He/Him]

Is investiture still assigned to a shard even if the shard is destroyed or splintered?

[Treamayne]

Welcome to the Shard. Please consider an Intro Post to let us know what you have or have-not read (whichever list is shorter). Also, please consider checking out the Sharder FAQ for some useful forum info and tips. 

8 minutes ago, Willshaper42 said:

Is investiture still assigned to a shard even if the shard is destroyed or splintered?

Yes. Investiture, like Matter and Energy, can neither be created nor destroyed - only changed forms. 
Example - Elantris and SfSitFoH Spoilers:

Spoiler

Devotion and Dominion were splinteres and their vessels were killed - but the shards continue. Most of the Shards of Devotion and Dominion have been smushed together and are collectively "The Dor" but Seons are still of Devotion because they are Splinters of Devotion (ditto Skaze and Dominion). 

Likewise, the problem affecting Cognitive Shadows on Threnody (making them Shades) is still tied to Ambition, even though it has been corrupted and warped by Ambition's Splintering and the after-effects of the clash with Odium and Mercy. 

Hope that helps