Random Thought on Subastrals

[Jult]

I know they change to reflect the layout of the Physical Realm and distances between regions can also change based on the perception of the inhabitants of the related physical space. But what about the materials that the "seas" in the subastral manifest as? Can those change?

Like was there a time in Roshar's history where spheres hadn't been invented yet and Shadesmar was filled with something other than glass beads? I guess they all must have started as Emberdark before something formed there. But if spheres become uncommon and forgotten in Roshar, would something new become the default in Shadesmar?

[PanLin they/he]

4 hours ago, Jult said:

But if spheres become uncommon and forgotten in Roshar, would something new become the default in Shadesmar?

Basically, yeah. From the wiki:

Spoiler

Regions of the Cognitive Realm that correspond to planets are formally known as subastrals (e.g. Scadrian subastral or Selish subastral),^[2] but are also sometimes—more poetically—referred to as expanses (e.g. Expanse of the Vapors, or Expanse of the Densities).^[14][15][16] Subastrals generally differ from each other as they are shaped by the perceptions of cultures living in the corresponding area of the Physical Realm.^[10] Common features are obsidian ground and a land-sea inversion but this is not ubiquitous.

The shape of the cognitive realm is primarily defined by perception. It isn't so much that sub-astrals match the shape of the planet they're next to, more that they match the collective perception of the people on that planet, naturally shaping the sub-astral to match. The cognitive realm is basically flat anyway; trying to accurately map a 3d universe onto it would be ridiculous. Big WoB incoming, but I've bolded the important bit:

Spoiler

Questioner

So like as far as distance traveled in Shadesmar. So when Kelsier is in Shadesmar, he meets the Ire, who are presumably Elantrians. How far did he travel? Is that still within Scadrial's realm of the Cognitive Realm?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, that's within-- By the time he meets them he has slipped right to the edge of the Cognitive Realm on Scadrial and into, kind of, the darkness between planets. 

Questioner

Okay.

Brandon Sanderson

He's close enough that he can get there. But he's kind of suffused with Scadrian Investiture then, to a point that it would be harder--you saw in there--for him to get further. I would say that he's like... He has entered space between planets, but he's not out of the solar system.

Questioner

Okay, so he's still in the Scadrian system, just not--just edging a bit there.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, yep. That's what I'd say if I had to actually point him in that <a map>. It gets really fuzzy though, because it wouldn't be too much longer before he enters another solar system. Like, he would pass lightyears in steps as he starts getting further, if that makes any sense.

Questioner

That makes sense, because, I mean, with worldhopping in general it's like... You can only... I mean it's... I don't know how the time dilation works per se, but...

Brandon Sanderson

It's not-- there's not much time dilation. What you've got going on is... Things that people aren't around to think about, things without minds or any sort of life, don't manifest on Shadesmar very much at all. And so the space between planets gets really small, unless there's another planet out there with thinking beings or at least some sort of life on it. Like even lower lifeforms, you'll get something manifesting on Shadesmar. But yeah

Questioner

Okay. So the Cognitive Realm, in Shadesmar... It's kind of the... Any kind of sentient or cognitive life-- that's what is building Shadesmar? So like anything where there's blackness... is like... condensed or--

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, yes. Particularly if no one's thinking about it. If people are thinking about it - like, for instance, an island in the ocean that was scoured of all life and even bacteria would still manifest in Shadesmar on that planet because people are aware of it and things like this. But one on the other side of the planet, that no one ever knew about it, probably wouldn't.

Questioner

So that same island, if people just stopped thinking about it or like stopped being aware of its presence, would it...

Brandon Sanderson

It could slowly vanish, yes. And so-- But that's more of a thought experiment. You're never gonna have a planet that that happens to, you know cause-- but thought experiment wise, yes, that would eventually kind of get consumed by Shadesmar and vanish. The same thing would happen to a planet that you strip the atmosphere from--all the bacteria and life dies on it--you know, slowly going to vanish. But a moon will still manifest because people are thinking about it. It'll just not-- it won't-- it'll be hokey, it'll be weird--the moon will be. Like you might find a little patch that represents the moon. Something like that.

Questioner

That's interesting.

Brandon Sanderson

You're not gonna find the full landscape of the moon until people start visiting it. And it's gonna grow on Shadesmar.

White Sand vol.1 release party (June 28, 2016)

So yeah, the cognitive realm, as the name implies, exists as cognitive activity. The more cognitive activity nearby, the larger the space gets. This is why FTL travel is currently possible through the cognitive realm: there's no-one out in space exhibiting any cognitive activity, and generally speaking, people don't really realise how ridiculously big space actually is. Both of those facts mean that everything in the cognitive realm associated with outer space currently takes up a lot less space than it should.

Spoiler

Nepene

I suppose one thing to wonder is how do you enter Shadesmar? We know of a number of people who are jumping from world to world through Shadesmar. Grump Thinker and Blunt, Hoid too. How are they accessing the cognitive plane to transport themselves across the lands?

Presumably Shallan's bond with the truthspren let her get in. How does this work? If she had only a dim sphere then does it not require any stormlight, any spiritual power? Is it a purely cognitive change? I could see some advantages to that. You could hop into this alternative dimension at will if you were being attacked, even with little power.

The scholars earlier talk of whether there is food in Shadesmar, so presumably others have visited it. Can non soulcasters visit it? Is there some fabrial that grants you access? Are they only referring to the distant past, when KR had the power to access it? Is it purely a thing of the mind that anyone can learn? Is it only possible if you have access to a splinter of a shard?

Brandon Sanderson

There are many ways to enter Shadesmar. You'll see more of this in the future. One thing to keep in mind about Shadesmar is that space where things are thinking is expanded, while space where there is nothing to think is contracted. In other words, in an empty void, you get almost no Shadesmar. This makes distances as we think of them very different there.

General Reddit 2013 (March 14, 2013)

The more people start to explore physical space, the larger that space will be in the corresponding areas of the cognitive realm, and travel through the cognitive realm will gradually get less efficient. It'll likely always be more efficient than physical space travel, but definitely less efficient than it used to be.

We might even see new subastrals start to pop up around moons and space stations if they have a large and consistent enough population.

 

EDIT: Just went to fact check myself and found this WoB contradicting my crossed-out point but confirming my space station one:

Spoiler

Questioner

In the cosmere, as space becomes more developed...*inaudible* outer space.

Brandon Sanderson

It's an interesting question that I've had to ponder. Would the space race happen more slowly because there's an alternative, or would it happen more quickly because you know other planets are inhabited. I'm not going to answer what I came up with, because it's a plot point in the books. So I'll give you a RAFO card, but that's the question to ask yourself.

Questioner

That wasn't my question! My question was, in the Cognitive Realm, with the gap between planets...

Brandon Sanderson

Oh! Will the gap between planets get larger as more people travel in between it. So, barring things like space stations, there's going to be so few minds in between, that I don't expect space to become larger because of that.

I don't expect it to be a factor, except--barring--there will be possibilities of certain regions popping up.

Legion Release Party (Sept. 19, 2018)

 

EDIT 2, Electric Boogaloo: Nope, I was right the first time, found a more recent WoB:

Spoiler

Questioner

As the cosmere enters the space age, will spaceship travel become the preferred method due to the Cognitive Realm lengthening as knowledge of the cosmos improves?

Brandon Sanderson

Excellent question. The Cognitive Realm will enlarge as understanding improves, but here's the thing. Human beings are really, really, really, really bad at conceptualizing large numbers, spaces, and things like that. So, even as they imagine how big the space between planets is, it's going to actually be a fraction of the actual distance. So, traveling through the Cognitive Realm will remain the preferred method and remain much faster, unless you can get true FTL, which is still very expensive and difficult. I think it's still gonna be the preferred method. But you're right; Shadesmar will lengthen, the distances will lengthen between planets as people's conceptions of them more accurately represent real life.

General YouTube 2024 (Oct. 31, 2024)

This really bugged me and I had to find an answer—I could've sworn someone in-universe mentioned a concept like this in IotE.

So yes, the cognitive realm will get bigger over time to match the more accurate perception people have of the size of space (and the universe in general) as technology and understanding increase, but it will always be faster to navigate outer space in the cognitive realm than the physical realm.

Edited March 17 by PanLin

[Jult]

2 hours ago, PanLin said:

Basically, yeah.

That's what I thought. The shifting distances and the arrangement of the land and sea are things I've thought about often. But I never thought about the default form of objects changing... Like if the mists become far less well known on Scadrial, and electricity becomes a mainstay in everyday life for a Scadrian.. Then there's a possibility that the 'Expanse of Vapor' might need a new name reflecting their new 'shocking' subastral.

[PanLin they/he]

8 minutes ago, Jult said:

Like if the mists become far less well known on Scadrial, and electricity becomes a mainstay in everyday life for a Scadrian.. 

Oh that's fun to think about. I think it would take either a LONG time or a whole bunch of cultural significance for anything to replace the importance of the mists in Scadrian culture, but it's certainly possible.

I promise I'm taking this seriously and I do 100% think it's possible, but my first thought was that everyone in the physical realm (instead of looking like misty ghosts) will look like the 10,000 volt ghost from Scooby Doo when viewed from the cognitive.

8 minutes ago, Jult said:

Then there's a possibility that the 'Expanse of Vapor' might need a new name reflecting their new 'shocking' subastral.

Expanse of Polarity, maybe? Maintains the push/pull aesthetic they love so much over there.

Edited March 17 by PanLin

[Treamayne]

19 hours ago, Jult said:

Like if the mists become far less well known on Scadrial, and electricity becomes a mainstay in everyday life for a Scadrian.. Then there's a possibility that the 'Expanse of Vapor' might need a new name reflecting their new 'shocking' subastral.

I do not think you could get such a massive change in timelines shorter than geological scales. The Shadesmar of a given planet is based, not just on the thoughts of the inhabitants, but on the Cognitive Identity of the planet. Looking at Scadrial, one would think that if it was based solely on the cognitive perception of the people (conceptual reality) then Scadrial's Shadesmar should be based on metal, not mist (after all, the mists were a post-Rashek primary thing and were the "deepness" before that), and much less consistent (presumably, given what we know from Alendi and Kwaan's writings). But the Focus of Scadrial is metal (and that's why we have the three Metallic Arts) and even with Allomancy and Feruchemy being a daily part of life, that has not shifted Scadrian Shadesmar. 

  

23 hours ago, Jult said:

Like was there a time in Roshar's history where spheres hadn't been invented yet and Shadesmar was filled with something other than glass beads?

I thought it was implied that Rosharan Shadesmar was gemstones (as gemhearts are the primary conduit of a Nahel bond) before humanity and beads came along.

 

Edited March 18 by Treamayne
SPAG

[PanLin they/he]

1 hour ago, Treamayne said:

The Shadesmar of a given planet is based, not just on the thoughts of the inhabitants, but on the Cognitive Identity of the planet.

I wonder how much influence Harmony has over this. The mists could well be too integral to Scadrial's self-perception, but they were created in the first place by Preservation.

I suppose it would be a form of Soul Stamping, but on a planetary scale. Probably not something that would happen without intentional effort, especially not within a few millennia.

And really, what reason would someone have to intentionally change a planet's Identity like that?

1 hour ago, Treamayne said:

But the Focus of Scadrial is metal (and that's why we have the three Metallic Arts) and even with Allomancy and Feruchemy being a daily part of life, that has not shifted Scadrian Shadesmar. 

This is an important point and I agree, but also the mists are still very present in daily life, and Scadrians (even non-Metalborn) are constantly exposed to these unnatural, mythological mists, which I'm sure does a lot to reinforce their importance.

[Jult]

1 hour ago, Treamayne said:

I do not think you could get such a massive change in timelines shorter than geological scales.

A very good point. I definitely agree that it wouldn't happen overnight unless some kind of Shardic intervention was involved.

1 hour ago, Treamayne said:

(after all, the mists were a post-Rashek primary thing and were the "deepness" before that, and much less consistent (presumably, given what we know from Alendi and Kwaan's writings).

So then do you think the subastral could have been something other than mists pre-Rashek? Or was the deepness important enough to still be the default in this ancient version of Scadrial?

1 hour ago, Treamayne said:

But the Focus of Scadrial is metal (and that's why we have the three Metallic Arts) and even with Allomancy and Feruchemy being a daily part of life, that has not shifted Scadrian Shadesmar. 

I did think of metals and almost used them in my previous example instead of electricity. I agree that they'd make more sense. Could it just be that there are so many varieties and uses for metals that there isn't a very consistent cognitive image that springs to mind at the word? If I say "mists" most Scadrians are going to picture something similar, but if I say "metal", there'd probably be a wide variety of mental pictures going around.

26 minutes ago, PanLin said:

And really, what reason would someone have to intentionally change a planet's Identity like that?

This whole idea originally occurred to me when I was poking around the Coppermind and saw this highlighted bit:

It got me thinking about potential advantages/disadvantages of having navigable terrain within your local subastral. Particularly ones related to the Rosharan-Scadrian conflict that's going on in the background of the SP novels.

I also danced around this as a possibility for how Autonomy may have limited the accessibility of Taldain, but that's probably not the case. She probably just did something to block off her perpendicularity.

[Treamayne]

1 hour ago, PanLin said:

The mists could well be too integral to Scadrial's self-perception, but they were created in the first place by Preservation.

I do not think Preservation *made* the Mists - Leras altered them and used them as a vehicle for Snapping. If They were wholly of preservation then Ruin would not have been able to also alter them - and - we would not have two sets of Mist in era 2 (Preservation and Ruin). HoA Epilogue:

Spoiler

The people misinterpreted the mists' intent, as the process of Snapping Allomancers caused some—particularly the young and the old—to die. This hadn't been Preservation's desire, but he'd given up most of his consciousness to form Ruin's prison, and the mists had to be left to work as best they could without specific direction.

Ruin, subtle as ever, knew that he couldn't stop the mists from doing their work. However, he could do the unexpected and encourage them. And so, he helped make them stronger. That brought death to the plants of the world, and created the threat that became known as the Deepness.

 

 

1 hour ago, PanLin said:

but also the mists are still very present in daily life, and Scadrians (even non-Metalborn) are constantly exposed to these unnatural, mythological mists, which I'm sure does a lot to reinforce their importance.

Ish - not constantly, they do not even come every night (sometimes not even every week)

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

Chapter Seventeen

The Mists Form

In writing this book, I had to nail down a few worldbuilding issues I'd been contemplating even before the first trilogy ended. What would happen to the mists, for instance, once Sazed took over and became Harmony?

The mists, obviously, are a big part of the series. It didn't make sense—either narratively or worldbuilding-wise—to lose them completely. However, they'd been created as an effect of Preservation trying to use his essence to fight against Ruin's destruction of the world. So . . . wouldn't they go away?

I decided that Sazed would still send them. They're part of the nature of the world now. To acknowledge what had happened, they wouldn't come every night any longer. But they would come. They were changed in that they are no longer simply the raw power of Preservation; they're now a part of Harmony—so they no longer pull away from Hemalurgy in the same way as they used to. They still have the odd effect of being able to power Allomancy. (And Feruchemy as well—if one knows how to do it.)

The mists are, in part, the raw power of creation. And when one is favored of Harmony, the mists have a greater effect than they might otherwise have. We'll see more of this later.

The Alloy of Law Annotations (Nov. 30, 2015)

 

  

18 minutes ago, Jult said:

Or was the deepness important enough to still be the default in this ancient version of Scadrial?

We have no data - so this is entirely conjecture; but, I think that Mist is the cognitive Identity for Scadrial because of how Leras and Ati created it from nothing in an otherwise empty star system (and we all know that investure pulled into the physical realm is gaseous until/unless formed or shaped into some other form/pattern). So, they pull the investiture through (planet size ball of Mist) and then shape and form Scadrial from that. . . 

 

Edited March 18 by Treamayne
SPAG and Jult Response

[PanLin they/he]

2 hours ago, Treamayne said:

I do not think Preservation *made* the Mists - Leras altered them and used them as a vehicle for Snapping. If They were wholly of preservation then Ruin would not have been able to also alter them - and - we would not have two sets of Mist in era 2 (Preservation and Ruin). HoA Epilogue:

  Hide contents

The people misinterpreted the mists' intent, as the process of Snapping Allomancers caused some—particularly the young and the old—to die. This hadn't been Preservation's desire, but he'd given up most of his consciousness to form Ruin's prison, and the mists had to be left to work as best they could without specific direction.

Ruin, subtle as ever, knew that he couldn't stop the mists from doing their work. However, he could do the unexpected and encourage them. And so, he helped make them stronger. That brought death to the plants of the world, and created the threat that became known as the Deepness.

From the wiki:

Spoiler

The mist of Scadrial is the gaseous form of Preservation's Investiture.

And a WoB:

Spoiler

 

Andrew The Great (paraphrased)

Before the Ascension, why did the mists appear just as the well was gaining power? Did they come out at other times?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

This one is trickier. From what I got out of it, it's because the mists are a manifestation of Preservation, and physical manifestations of Preservation (including Allomancers) are intended to do two things - stop Ruin, and protect the Well of Ascension. Which are kind of the same thing. So, when the Well was dormant, the mists didn't really have much to do. The Deepness form of the mists is a result of the conscious part of Preservation freaking out and trying to produce a way to protect the well, mostly by producing more Allomancers. That's why the mists do all the funky things in the Well of Ascension and Hero of Ages - they're trying to produce more Allomancers to combat Ruin.

Idaho Falls Signing (June 20, 2009)

 

Whether mists in general existed before Preservation, the notable mists we see throughout the books that specifically react to Investiture, move in ways normal mists don't, and have fed into the mythology of Scadrial, are fully of Preservation (and later, Harmony).

For the part you quoted, the reason Ruin couldn't stop them completely is because they were of Preservation. All he could do was scare them into being more active.

2 hours ago, Treamayne said:

If They were wholly of preservation then Ruin would not have been able to also alter them - and - we would not have two sets of Mist in era 2 (Preservation and Ruin).

I didn't think we did have two sets of mists? Era 1 had Preservation's, briefly egged on and made more dangerous by Ruin, and Era 2 has Harmony's. Harmony's existence means naturally occurring manifestations of Preservation or Ruin as individual Shards shouldn't be possible.

Where do we see two types of mist? I'll have to go back and do some reading.

2 hours ago, Treamayne said:

Ish - not constantly, they do not even come every night (sometimes not even every week)

Well sure, I didn't mean they happen literally every day  but a valid correction nonetheless.

2 hours ago, Treamayne said:

They're part of the nature of the world now.

This is all I meant to imply when using 'daily life'.

2 hours ago, Jult said:

It got me thinking about potential advantages/disadvantages of having navigable terrain within your local subastral. Particularly ones related to the Rosharan-Scadrian conflict that's going on in the background of the SP novels.

I also danced around this as a possibility for how Autonomy may have limited the accessibility of Taldain, but that's probably not the case. She probably just did something to block off her perpendicularity.

Oh interesting. I can certainly see the appeal, but wowza that's a big job (if it even is possible).

And Autonomy does have a way of messing with Perpendicularities that seems to go against modern realmatic understanding, so maybe some sort of Cognitive manipulation is how she does it? Her Investiture on Drominad seems heavily linked with cognitive empowerment, so I wouldn't be too surprised if there's a link there.

Changing the form of the whole Sub-Astral might be too much, but some tricksy cognitive shenanigans around her main Perpendicularity does sound pretty on-brand for Autonomy.

Spoiler

Autonomy has an ability to create and collapse perpendicularities in a way that goes against the understanding of Arcanists.^[14][64]

 

[Treamayne]

25 minutes ago, PanLin said:

3 hours ago, Treamayne said:

If They were wholly of preservation then Ruin would not have been able to also alter them - and - we would not have two sets of Mist in era 2 (Preservation and Ruin).

I didn't think we did have two sets of mists? Era 1 had Preservation's, briefly egged on and made more dangerous by Ruin, and Era 2 has Harmony's. Harmony's existence means naturally occurring manifestations of Preservation or Ruin as individual Shards shouldn't be possible.

Where do we see two types of mist? I'll have to go back and do some reading.

Mists with more Ruin are darker than mists with more Preservation.
References:

Spoiler

HoA Ch 14 (epigraph):

Quote

Ruin’s consciousness was trapped by the Well of Ascension, kept mostly impotent. That night, when we discovered the Well for the first time, we found something we didn’t understand. A black smoke, clogging one of the rooms.

Though we discussed it after the fact, we couldn’t decide what that was. How could we possibly have known?

The body of a god—or, rather, the power of a god, since the two are really the same thing. Ruin and Preservation inhabited power and energy in the same way a person inhabits flesh and blood.

HoA Ch 82:

Quote

To the side, the other corpse—the one he didn’t recognize—was also leaking something. A deep black smoke.

WoB:

Quote

Chaos

Do all three Metallic Arts still exist after the events of the book? Are Allomancy and Hemalurgy slightly degenerated now that Ruin and Preservation are dead, or does Allomancy still draw upon Preservation's power (just held with Sazed now)?

Brandon Sanderson

Allomancy, Feruchemy, and Hemalurgy all work as they once did. However, now they are more directly affected by the presence or absence of the mists, which will slowly return to the world but not be of the extent they once were. (The mists are now an extent of Sazed's power, and where they roam, he is better able to influence things. There will also be two kinds of mists.) Note that in the future, Feruchemy powers will start to fracture and split, creating Feruchemical "Mistings."

Yes, this means that in the future series, it will be possible for a person to have one Allomantic power and one Feruchemical power. It will create for some very interesting mixing of powers.

Hero of Ages Q&A - Time Waster's Guide (Oct. 15, 2008)

SoS Ch 8:

Quote

Wax frowned, opening his window and leaning his head out. Indeed, a line of carriages and even a few motors clogged the way into the coach portico of ZoBell Tower. The skyscraper towered some twenty stories up into the night sky, its top disappearing in the dark mists.

 

 

[PanLin they/he]

5 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

Mists with more Ruin are darker than mists with more Preservation.

Ah gotcha. Our interpretations may just be different here then. I wouldn't consider anything called 'smoke' to be referring to the mists, especially when Sanderson is as intentional as he is when referring to realmatically important things like this.

That WoB was from before Era 2 was published, and in-text evidence trumps WoBs, so the excerpt you shared earlier actually cancels out that WoB:

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

Chapter Seventeen

The Mists Form

In writing this book, I had to nail down a few worldbuilding issues I'd been contemplating even before the first trilogy ended. What would happen to the mists, for instance, once Sazed took over and became Harmony?

The mists, obviously, are a big part of the series. It didn't make sense—either narratively or worldbuilding-wise—to lose them completely. However, they'd been created as an effect of Preservation trying to use his essence to fight against Ruin's destruction of the world. So . . . wouldn't they go away?

I decided that Sazed would still send them. They're part of the nature of the world now. To acknowledge what had happened, they wouldn't come every night any longer. But they would come. They were changed in that they are no longer simply the raw power of Preservation; they're now a part of Harmony—so they no longer pull away from Hemalurgy in the same way as they used to. They still have the odd effect of being able to power Allomancy. (And Feruchemy as well—if one knows how to do it.)

The mists are, in part, the raw power of creation. And when one is favored of Harmony, the mists have a greater effect than they might otherwise have. We'll see more of this later.

The Alloy of Law Annotations (Nov. 30, 2015)

Pretty clearly states here that the mists that used to be of Preservation are now of Harmony and therefore contain both Preservation and Ruin (hence their ability to power hemalurgy).

12 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

The skyscraper towered some twenty stories up into the night sky, its top disappearing in the dark mists.

I don't think mists when seen at night count.

Sorry, not trying to be rude, I just don't think any of that implies there are two different mists, especially when everything we know about Harmony repeatedly reinforces that he contains, as one combined entity, everything that used to be either Preservation or Ruin.

[Treamayne]

22 minutes ago, PanLin said:

I don't think mists when seen at night count.

Sorry, not trying to be rude, I just don't think any of that implies there are two different mists, especially when everything we know about Harmony repeatedly reinforces that he contains, as one combined entity, everything that used to be either Preservation or Ruin.

Understood and concur. Agree to disagree - but it sounds like a great Q&A question should somebody ever get the chance to ask. 

My impression was that all E2+ Mists are "Harmony's mists," some are 75% Preservation (and lighter colored), some are 75% Ruin (and darker colored) - because white gas + black smoke = various shades of grey Mist. 

That said, I absolutely read that WoB before Era 2 was published, so I was biased looking for indicators of the "two kinds of mist" we were expecting while AoL was being edited for publication. . . 

Edited March 18 by Treamayne
SPAG

[PanLin they/he]

Just now, Treamayne said:

Understood and concur. Agree to disagree - but it sounds like a great Q&A question should somebody ever get teh chance to ask. 

Agreed!

Just now, Treamayne said:

My impression was that all E2+Mists are Harmony's mists, some are 75% Preservation (and lighter colored), some are 75% Ruin (and darker colored) - because white gas + black smoke = various shades of grey Mist. 

Ooh ok, now that's very different to there being two distinct mists, and I can get on board. We know Harmony struggles with balancing his two Shardic Intents, so maybe the Intent of his essence (and therefore the mists) is changeable.