Division breaks molecular bonds...

[DoctaDajman]

Could it seperate Harmonium into Lerasium and Atium.

[PanLin they/he]

10 minutes ago, DoctaDajman said:

Could it seperate Harmonium into Lerasium and Atium.

Unfortunately not; Harmonium is a spiritual alloy, not a physical one. From the wiki:

Spoiler

Harmonium is the condensed elemental form of Harmony's power. Alloying atium and lerasium will not produce harmonium. While difficult, it is possible to obtain atium and lerasium from harmonium, but not through mechanical means.^[3]

 

[alder24]

16 minutes ago, DoctaDajman said:

Could it seperate Harmonium into Lerasium and Atium.

No, because Harmonium is not an alloy, it's a completely new element so it's just one Axon (atom), which spiritually is made out of two opposite investitures mixed together. But microkinesis might be able to do it, it can cause fission and something like fission was what split Harmonium into Lerasium and Atium when Wax performed the experiment in TLM.

Spoiler

Questioner

The Division Surge: does it actually split atoms or does it split the bonds of molecules?

Brandon Sanderson

It splits the bonds of molecules, it does not split atoms.

Questioner

That would be completely overpowered.

Brandon Sanderson

I have done an atom splitting magic originally in Dragonsteel. And wooow it was overpowered. So really, this is fiddling... You'll see what it does when I use it, but we'll not be splitting atoms. We're not creating nuclear reactio... or fission, so.

Leipzig Book Fair (March 24, 2017)

 

Spoiler

Ironeyes

So harmonium, we have a working theory that the reason it's so volatile is because some of the subatomic particles are associated with Ruin and some of them are [of?] Preservation. Is that true?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, that's basically what's going on is that it's creating a very unstable metal. Now, it is in the nature of the Cosmere not a compound but an element. But, you could call it a subatomic particle sure. It's very volatile because it is in nature spiritually in contrast with itself. And so though it is a single element rather than a compound, the spiritual nature is not happy as it is, and you can set up in the physical realm, through reactivity things that would just rip it apart and really your energy is not, your energy in that is actually pulling from the Spiritual realm, and so that's why it can be so much more explosive than even the chemistry would account for.

Ironeyes

So it's not that the subatomic particles are invested, it's that they have a spiritual identity which causes them to...

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Ironeyes

So then it's not creating an oxide because after the spiritual energy goes away from the explosion then it's a different metal, right?

Brandon Sanderson

Right, and...

Ironeyes

So you can't find harmonium oxide in the water afterwards.

Brandon Sanderson

Right right right right. Because it's not, it's, yeah. But you might be able to find something else, which is really relevant to the Cosmere. And to Scadrial.

Ironeyes

So the core elements, the core particles, having extra repulsion causes them to have a nuclear potential.

Brandon Sanderson

I would not call it nuclear because it's not the same exact thing. But there is a Cosmere equivalent. To - I mean, you could do nuclear power just the same in the Cosmere, but since we have a third kind of state of matter, right? Matter, energy, Investiture. You have a third axis that, you know, you can release energy from matter, you can release investiture from matter, and things like that. So it's similar, but following its own rules that I have a little more - that are controlled by me, right, that are built on this idea. So once you add *inaudible*, matter now can exist in this third state, you get all sorts of weird things, which one of the things that happens is, you can get an energy release in sort of the same way. A reaction, I'm not going to call it a nuclear reaction, but of the same vein.

Boskone 54 (Feb. 19, 2017)

 

Edit:

Well, apparently now Division can do microkinesis so if it's true, then it may be possible, at least in my opinion. Previously Brandon said that Division can't do it and per Ars Arcanum it was Cohesion that was the closest to microkinesis.

Spoiler

Questioner

Could a sufficiently advanced Skybreaker or Dustbringer use the Division Surge to forcibly split the Nahel bond?

Brandon Sanderson

So what you're talking about is something in the cosmere that's called microkinesis. It is a possible manifestation of base cosmere surges, and it is about as dangerous as you imagine. A sufficiently trained and invested Skybreaker or Dustbringer probably could do it. It has been done, but not by them during...

So yes, fission and fusion are part of the magic systems. They call it “microkinesis,” but yeah. So you can read about that in Dragonsteel Prime. It’s in there. But they are the same Surge.

Footnote: The mentions of fission, fusion, and microkinesis point towards Brandon misunderstanding what was asked, and misheard the questioner as saying "nuclear" instead of "Nahel."
Dragonsteel Nexus 2024 (Dec. 5, 2024)

 

Edited March 5 by alder24

[Shatter He/Him]

30 minutes ago, alder24 said:

No, because Harmonium is not an alloy, it's a completely new element so it's just one Axon (atom), which spiritually is made out of two opposite investitures mixed together. But microkinesis might be able to do it, it can cause fission and something like fission was what split Harmonium into Lerasium and Atium when Wax performed the experiment in TLM.

  Reveal hidden contents

Questioner

The Division Surge: does it actually split atoms or does it split the bonds of molecules?

Brandon Sanderson

It splits the bonds of molecules, it does not split atoms.

Questioner

That would be completely overpowered.

Brandon Sanderson

I have done an atom splitting magic originally in Dragonsteel. And wooow it was overpowered. So really, this is fiddling... You'll see what it does when I use it, but we'll not be splitting atoms. We're not creating nuclear reactio... or fission, so.

Leipzig Book Fair (March 24, 2017)

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Ironeyes

So harmonium, we have a working theory that the reason it's so volatile is because some of the subatomic particles are associated with Ruin and some of them are [of?] Preservation. Is that true?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, that's basically what's going on is that it's creating a very unstable metal. Now, it is in the nature of the Cosmere not a compound but an element. But, you could call it a subatomic particle sure. It's very volatile because it is in nature spiritually in contrast with itself. And so though it is a single element rather than a compound, the spiritual nature is not happy as it is, and you can set up in the physical realm, through reactivity things that would just rip it apart and really your energy is not, your energy in that is actually pulling from the Spiritual realm, and so that's why it can be so much more explosive than even the chemistry would account for.

Ironeyes

So it's not that the subatomic particles are invested, it's that they have a spiritual identity which causes them to...

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Ironeyes

So then it's not creating an oxide because after the spiritual energy goes away from the explosion then it's a different metal, right?

Brandon Sanderson

Right, and...

Ironeyes

So you can't find harmonium oxide in the water afterwards.

Brandon Sanderson

Right right right right. Because it's not, it's, yeah. But you might be able to find something else, which is really relevant to the Cosmere. And to Scadrial.

Ironeyes

So the core elements, the core particles, having extra repulsion causes them to have a nuclear potential.

Brandon Sanderson

I would not call it nuclear because it's not the same exact thing. But there is a Cosmere equivalent. To - I mean, you could do nuclear power just the same in the Cosmere, but since we have a third kind of state of matter, right? Matter, energy, Investiture. You have a third axis that, you know, you can release energy from matter, you can release investiture from matter, and things like that. So it's similar, but following its own rules that I have a little more - that are controlled by me, right, that are built on this idea. So once you add *inaudible*, matter now can exist in this third state, you get all sorts of weird things, which one of the things that happens is, you can get an energy release in sort of the same way. A reaction, I'm not going to call it a nuclear reaction, but of the same vein.

Boskone 54 (Feb. 19, 2017)

 

Edit:

Well, apparently now Division can do microkinesis so if it's true, then it may be possible, at least in my opinion. Previously Brandon said that Division can't do it and per Ars Arcanum it was Cohesion that was the closest to microkinesis.

  Reveal hidden contents

Questioner

Could a sufficiently advanced Skybreaker or Dustbringer use the Division Surge to forcibly split the Nahel bond?

Brandon Sanderson

So what you're talking about is something in the cosmere that's called microkinesis. It is a possible manifestation of base cosmere surges, and it is about as dangerous as you imagine. A sufficiently trained and invested Skybreaker or Dustbringer probably could do it. It has been done, but not by them during...

So yes, fission and fusion are part of the magic systems. They call it “microkinesis,” but yeah. So you can read about that in Dragonsteel Prime. It’s in there. But they are the same Surge.

Footnote: The mentions of fission, fusion, and microkinesis point towards Brandon misunderstanding what was asked, and misheard the questioner as saying "nuclear" instead of "Nahel."
Dragonsteel Nexus 2024 (Dec. 5, 2024)

 

I would not recommend using microkinesis or Division on a highly unstable element. 

[PanLin they/he]

49 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Well, apparently now Division can do microkinesis so if it's true, then it may be possible, at least in my opinion. Previously Brandon said that Division can't do it and per Ars Arcanum it was Cohesion that was the closest to microkinesis.

So I have a theory that there are actually only 8 'real' Surges, and that most of the ones we know are clipped, filtered and weakened versions of those.

Within that, I reconcile this apparent wishy-washiness between Cohesion and Division by saying that they are imbalanced versions of the original Surges:

• OG Cohesion (Microkinesis) was about manipulating internal structures (what something actually is)
• OG Division was about controlling strain thresholds (how much strain something can take before breaking)

 

49 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Edit:

Well, apparently now Division can do microkinesis so if it's true, then it may be possible, at least in my opinion. Previously Brandon said that Division can't do it and per Ars Arcanum it was Cohesion that was the closest to microkinesis.

  Hide contents

Questioner

Could a sufficiently advanced Skybreaker or Dustbringer use the Division Surge to forcibly split the Nahel bond?

Brandon Sanderson

So what you're talking about is something in the cosmere that's called microkinesis. It is a possible manifestation of base cosmere surges, and it is about as dangerous as you imagine. A sufficiently trained and invested Skybreaker or Dustbringer probably could do it. It has been done, but not by them during...

So yes, fission and fusion are part of the magic systems. They call it “microkinesis,” but yeah. So you can read about that in Dragonsteel Prime. It’s in there. But they are the same Surge.

Footnote: The mentions of fission, fusion, and microkinesis point towards Brandon misunderstanding what was asked, and misheard the questioner as saying "nuclear" instead of "Nahel."
Dragonsteel Nexus 2024 (Dec. 5, 2024)

 

Also, the footnote of this WoB implies that Sanderson gave an answer relating to nuclear bonds, not to Nahel ones. I think it still holds that Division couldn't break a spiritual bond like Harmonium.

Edited March 5 by PanLin

[Qianweilian He/him]

Brandon says no nukes with Division (though that might be because of Honor’s restrictions)

Quote

Snipexe

Could you create a nuclear bomb using the Surge of Division?

Brandon Sanderson

Not Division, but there are cosmere powers that are built around splitting atoms.

Orem Signing (March 16, 2019)