Under Roshar's Seas

[Jult]

Putting this on the IotE spoiler board since it includes some minor IotE spoilers, but it's primarily a Stormlight Archive theory.

Does anyone else think we may be running into some kind of Rosharan underwater adventures in the future? After IotE and Sunlit Man, we've seen Shardplate in space. Why not Shardplate on the seafloor? If it's airtight and pressure-resistant, that just seems like a natural way to use it.

I could even see the possibility for an Atlantis-style city on the seafloor. Island nations don't seem particularly rare on Roshar and I don't think one sinking would be particularly shocking given the weather conditions on the planet. Is this why the Uvara, the 'People of the Great Abyss', are only thought of as a myth in the present day? Did they sink into the Great Abyss?

And, narratively speaking, Nergaoul is trapped somewhere on the seafloor thanks to Dalinar. I think many of the reveals about the Unmade that we've seen have shown them to be victims more than villains. So, it seems cruel to leave him there now. I find it hard to believe we've seen the end of him.

Brandon was asked about underwater societies on Roshar in the past and only replied with a RAFO unfortunately.

Anyone else have any thoughts on loose threads or curious bits of lore that could fit into this idea?

[Schizoposting]

While creating a radiant diving suite does seem plausible, I'm not quite sure what the point would be, at least in the SA; aside from Nergaoul, there's probably nothing particularly interesting about the seafloor—I highly doubt that we will see an underwater civilization, given that we have seen zero foreshadowing for such a reveal.

[Jult]

Since posting this I've done some searching through the forums (which I admittedly should have done before posting).

I found several stray comments as if this has been discussed before but couldn't find a dedicated topic for it. From what I gather, Puuli's Interlude in Oathbringer is what made it come up before. Since it predicts the arrival of conquerors from an island near the Origin that will reclaim Natanatan.

Quote

"They’ll come with Light in their pockets. They’ll come to destroy, but you should watch for them anyway. Because they’ll come from the Origin. The sailors lost on an infinite sea."

I had completely forgotten about Puuli. Unclear if the island he refers to is the same as the one in the Wandersail story where the Uvara reside. Puuli's island is supposedly EAST of Roshar and the Wandersail supposedly sailed WEST of Roshar, but y'know.. The world is round. I'd personally say they're different islands since the Uvara are described as having long, limber bodies and the Natan are not. Also, the Natan have blue skin. I don't think a skin color was specified for the Uvara, but that would lead me to guess it wasn't unusual. The Great Abyss sounds more like an "anti-Origin" to me anyway. I doubt they're the same place.

The Origin itself is probably a mystery worth exploring. We know it's where Dalinar sensed the Stormfather's presence whenever he wasn't, uh, storming. And Cucicesh faced directly toward it in his now-broken cycle.

 

I also saw a lot of posts about how Roshar's native flora and fauna seem semi-aquatic, but that's probably more a result of them adapting to Highstorms (and the Doylist explanation that Brandon took inspiration from tide pool ecosystems when designing Roshar).

[Schizoposting]

2 hours ago, Jult said:

Since posting this I've done some searching through the forums (which I admittedly should have done before posting).

I found several stray comments as if this has been discussed before but couldn't find a dedicated topic for it. From what I gather, Puuli's Interlude in Oathbringer is what made it come up before. Since it predicts the arrival of conquerors from an island near the Origin that will reclaim Natanatan.

I had completely forgotten about Puuli. Unclear if the island he refers to is the same as the one in the Wandersail story where the Uvara reside. Puuli's island is supposedly EAST of Roshar and the Wandersail supposedly sailed WEST of Roshar, but y'know.. The world is round. I'd personally say they're different islands since the Uvara are described as having long, limber bodies and the Natan are not. Also, the Natan have blue skin. I don't think a skin color was specified for the Uvara, but that would lead me to guess it wasn't unusual. The Great Abyss sounds more like an "anti-Origin" to me anyway. I doubt they're the same place.

The Origin itself is probably a mystery worth exploring. We know it's where Dalinar sensed the Stormfather's presence whenever he wasn't, uh, storming. And Cucicesh faced directly toward it in his now-broken cycle.

 

I also saw a lot of posts about how Roshar's native flora and fauna seem semi-aquatic, but that's probably more a result of them adapting to Highstorms (and the Doylist explanation that Brandon took inspiration from tide pool ecosystems when designing Roshar).

There is probably some level of significance to the story of the Uvara, but given that Ishar was unable to find them, I don't think that it should be interpreted literally.

Also, my personal theory is that Puuli's story is more or less referring to the Heralds returning to restore Stormlight to the post Night of Sorrows Roshar, but this may be a stretch.

Edited January 7 by Schizoposting

[Treamayne]

55 minutes ago, Jult said:

I found several stray comments as if this has been discussed before but couldn't find a dedicated topic for it. From what I gather, Puuli's Interlude in Oathbringer is what made it come up before. Since it predicts the arrival of conquerors from an island near the Origin that will reclaim Natanatan.

Spoiler

"They’ll come with Light in their pockets. They’ll come to destroy, but you should watch for them anyway. Because they’ll come from the Origin. The sailors lost on an infinite sea."

I had completely forgotten about Puuli. Unclear if the island he refers to is the same as the one in the Wandersail story where the Uvara reside. Puuli's island is supposedly EAST of Roshar and the Wandersail supposedly sailed WEST of Roshar, but y'know.. The world is round. I'd personally say they're different islands since the Uvara are described as having long, limber bodies and the Natan are not. Also, the Natan have blue skin. I don't think a skin color was specified for the Uvara, but that would lead me to guess it wasn't unusual. The Great Abyss sounds more like an "anti-Origin" to me anyway. I doubt they're the same place.

The Origin itself is probably a mystery worth exploring. We know it's where Dalinar sensed the Stormfather's presence whenever he wasn't, uh, storming. And Cucicesh faced directly toward it in his now-broken cycle.

You cut that quote short a bit - OB Interlude 1:

Spoiler

He looked over the cliffs, to the east. His family was a lot like the lighthouse themselves. Squat, short, but powerful. And enduring.

They’ll come with Light in their pockets, Grandfather had said. They’ll come to destroy, but you should watch for them anyway. Because they’ll come from the Origin. The sailors lost on an infinite sea. You keep that fire high at night, Puuli. You burn it bright until the day they come.

They’ll arrive when the night is darkest.

This could also mean Worldhoppers:

• "Light in their pockets" could be off-world investiture, or even unkeyed purifed investiture of some kind
• "Come to destroy" could simply be coming to fight Retribution and his forces
• "Infinite Sea" sounds like Shadesmar to me (especially after the reveals in IED)
• "Night is Darkest" - sounds like post-Night of Sorrows to me

Also note: the other Ligthhouse we see in-story is manned by a former Ire Elantrian (with at least some Dor) - Riino

2 hours ago, Jult said:

After IotE and Sunlit Man, we've seen Shardplate in space. Why not Shardplate on the seafloor? If it's airtight and pressure-resistant, that just seems like a natural way to use it.

Because there is a huge difference between keeping pressure in a vessel (space stations btwn 30-101 kPA [Everest and MSLP]) and keeping pressure outside of a vessel (submarine at 300m depth is about 3000 kPA of pressure). There is a reason submarine engineering does not work for exo-atmospheric design (despite all of those Sci Fi "convert a sub into a spaceship" stories). 

Hope that helps

Edited January 7 by Treamayne
SPAG

[Jult]

22 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

You cut that quote short a bit - OB Interlude 1:

Thank you! The bit I posted I copied directly from Puuli's Coppermind page. The rest wasn't there unfortunately.

24 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

Also note: the other Ligthhouse we see in-story is manned by a former Ire Elantrian (with at least some Dor) - Riino

How would Puuli's lighthouse even be relevant if these sailors are coming from Shadesmar? Is it possible Natan can see into the Cognitive Realm? I believe Siah Aimians have some CR shenanigans going on based on their funky shadows. And (based on their skin color) Natans are probably Siah Aimian-human hybrids. Is Puuli looking toward whatever in Shadesmar lines up with the Origin?

53 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

Because there is a huge difference between keeping pressure in a vessel (space stations btwn 30-101 kPA [Everest and MSLP]) and keeping pressure outside of a vessel (submarine at 300m depth is about 3000 kPA of pressure). There is a reason submarine engineering does not work for exo-atmospheric design (despite all of those Sci Fi "convert a sub into a spaceship" stories). 

Oh wow I was definitely imagining the feats as much more similar than they actually are. Too much bad sci-fi rots the brain. I'm sure Brandon could still find a way, but yeah it's definitely not going to be as simple as I thought.

[Treamayne]

1 minute ago, Jult said:

How would Puuli's lighthouse even be relevant if these sailors are coming from Shadesmar? Is it possible Natan can see into the Cognitive Realm?

I doubt it's anything so obscure. If highstorms come from Origin; then, presumably, there is some kind of Perpendicularity there (probably intermittenent). With Cultivation's Perpendicularity gone it may be that finding a way to transition at Origin and sail west is one of the methods of crossing back to Roshar's physical realm. 

[alder24]

20 hours ago, Jult said:

Does anyone else think we may be running into some kind of Rosharan underwater adventures in the future? After IotE and Sunlit Man, we've seen Shardplate in space. Why not Shardplate on the seafloor? If it's airtight and pressure-resistant, that just seems like a natural way to use it.

The environment in space is vastly easier to deal with than at the bottom of the sea. There is a reason why only around 20 people so far descended into the Challenger Deep - this reason is the pressure there being 1000x greater than on the surface of the Earth. 

Shardplates might be airtight but when you're dealing with the pressure difference in the range of hundreds or even a thousand atmospheres, it would implode as fast as the Titan did. I think it's theoretically possible for a Shardplate to survive on the seafloor, but practically impossible due to how much Stormlight would be required. It would probably take a tremendous amount of Stormlight to heal Shardplate fast enough to prevent it from being instantly crushed by pressure at the bottom of the Rosharan sea, so even royal gem reserves wouldn't last long.