Shapeshifting using healing and connection

[Wadders]

Healing with investiture by restoring the body to the state that a person views as themselves.

Could you instead use connection to something external (eg. another person) to restore the body to a different image? 

[DracoAdamantus he/him]

I can see something like this working, but I think identity manipulation is more important than connection manipulation here. You would effectively need to trick the investiture into using the spiritual identity of someone else for the "blueprint" it is doing the healing off of.

[Wadders]

Perhaps both connection and identity manipulation. Identity to blank your own identity and connection to connect to an external identity to trick the healing process.

[Jult]

1 hour ago, Wadders said:

Healing with investiture by restoring the body to the state that a person views as themselves.

Could you instead use connection to something external (eg. another person) to restore the body to a different image? 

Brandon has been asked a similar question before:

Spoiler

Quote

Questioner

We know that magical healing has a lot to do with Identity, like Lopen and Rysn. Suppose someone was tapping Identity from an unkeyed metalmind, and then you tried to heal them with any kind of magical healing. What would happen?

Brandon Sanderson

Most likely, that person’s perspective of themself is going to filter that unkeyed metalmind, and so what’s going to happen is what would normally happen to that person. In most instances. There are ways to get around that, but the vast majority, that’s what you’re gonna see.

Questioner

And if they were storing Identity instead?

Brandon Sanderson

Then you’re gonna go back to their Cognitive picture of themselves, which is going to be what’s filtering this, how they see themselves. If you knock them unconscious, they can’t see themselves, you’re blanking them of Identity, and things like that. They still, basically, will have… it’s gonna be really hard to get that all separated. The mental picture of themselves still exists on the Spiritual Realm. Remember, Realmatics is based on Plato’s theories of the forms, but your perspective is what’s shaping that. So there’s still gonna be, like, on the Spiritual Realm, there’s gonna be some version of yourself that is deeply influenced by how you view yourself that is going to be what that Investiture is trying to match, it’s trying to bring your body into alignment with that. So you’ve gotta replace that thing if you want it to do something different. Which you can do with Hemalurgy.

Dragonsteel 2022 (Nov. 14, 2022)

Based on this, I'd guess a Duralumin spike is the way to go. But it sounds like it's very difficult to warp your Identity so much that even your Spiritual aspect is affected.

[Wadders]

Yeah, a spike is likely one way to do it but I think there must be other ways. I think connection is key as we've seen adhesion manipulates spirtual connection to allow people to speak other languages so it might allow you to make other similar spiritual hacks.

We've seen a couple of examples of people making minor physical changes in stormlight. Hoid and the terris steward made themselves look more alethi and at least in Hoids case this must have been a physical change as his illusions were limited when he first came to roshar.

[DracoAdamantus he/him]

Was looking on the Arcanum for information regarding identity for something else, and I found this WoB:

Spoiler

Krios (paraphrased)

If you have a form of manipulating your Identity and a form of healing, are you able to shapeshift or even evolve your body like growing wings?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

You'd have to do some real work on your Spiritweb to make that work. It'd take more work than you're implying, but the [singers] for instance are doing this. It'll take a little more work, it's not just blanking your Identity. Hemalurgy would make it very easy, but also very evil. But what you want to achieve is possible.

Stuttgart signing (May 17, 2019)

So this WoB addresses the question pretty directly. Looks like the answer is it's incredibly difficult, and requires more work than just altering your identity and healing to match the new one.

Edited October 20, 2025 by DracoAdamantus

[NeverTrustAesSedai He/Him]

I think Brandon has addressed this. In a WoB (I'm new to the shard and don't know how to add WoBs, sorry!) he stated that it would be possible for a person, through their self-image, to change from a human into, say, a listener.

[Clarkmon22 He/Him]

18 hours ago, NeverTrustAesSedai said:

I think Brandon has addressed this. In a WoB (I'm new to the shard and don't know how to add WoBs, sorry!) he stated that it would be possible for a person, through their self-image, to change from a human into, say, a listener.

on the Arcanum, https://wob.coppermind.net/, copy with the copy button, and paste into a Spoiler box, which is the eye icon

Spoiler

Like this. The link to the audio (if it is there) and other info will be automatically attached. Also, if you have more questions, you can look at the Sharder FAQ

Questioner

Will the flute come back?

Brandon Sanderson

A lot of people are curious about the flute. I have been non-committal, so far.

Footnote: The flute referred to here is the flute given to Kaladin by Wit in The Way of Kings.
Words of Radiance Philadelphia signing (March 21, 2014)

 

 

Edited October 22, 2025 by Clarkmon22

[NeverTrustAesSedai He/Him]

Thank you!

[Treamayne]

23 hours ago, NeverTrustAesSedai said:

I think Brandon has addressed this. In a WoB (I'm new to the shard and don't know how to add WoBs, sorry!) he stated that it would be possible for a person, through their self-image, to change from a human into, say, a listener.

Welcome to the Shard. Please consider an Intro Post to let us know what you have or have-not read (whichever list is shorter). Also, please consider checking out the Sharder FAQ for some useful forum info and tips, including how to search and post WoBs.  

[NeverTrustAesSedai He/Him]

Here is the WoB I mentioned.

Spoiler

learhpa

Given that Stormlight healing matches to mental self-image (as shown by both the Lopen and by the Reshi monarch), could a really powerful hypnotist change someone's self-image in a way that would affect Stormlight healing? Could a powerful hypnotist use Stormlight healing to change a human into a listener?

Brandon Sanderson

Theoretically possible...to an extent. There is a limit to this, but the limitation is the amount of Investiture you have and access to Stormlight—or you know, Voidlight—can evidence this. Transformations that are happening in the storm to the listener forms are involved in this. That could theoretically happen to a human as well. But you would basically—what most likely would happen is it would have to involve a specific set of circumstances and then entering the storm, and then exiting as a listener—that could happen. You guys ask some farfetched things—that one's not so farfetched. It does require some specificity, but it could happen.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 5 (Dec. 2, 2022)

 

[Nitpicking]

Note that when Yumi moves into Painter's body, her enormous Investiture and the presence of her Spiritweb in there allow her to literally shapeshift that male body into a semblance of her long-dead one.

Edited October 24, 2025 by Nitpicking
typo