Quick Fix 76: Judgement on the Shores of the Purelake

[IcedOutPenguin He/Him]

13 minutes ago, Askthepizzaguy said:

I take two assumptions, that you are town, and that he is an Elim, as this culture calls it.

Can you go back to day one and look for the things he said, and explain which bits you think come from an Elim?

For example, the innocent people he is pushing, who are their names?

Do you have suggestions for who his partners would be?

This is an open ended question, and it really doesn't matter to me whether youre right about his alignment or not- what I'd be looking for is for you to explore that world, and fill in what you think is most likely to be true, with those assumptions.

Also, evidence that shows this can be the case. Mainly, who are the innocents he is trying to kill, would be helpful.

And then, what I would do is look and see if that's likely to be true, that the persons he is pushing are all innocent.

If that helps you express your viewpoint and make it more persuasive when it's correct, and also, helps people read your alignment even if it weren't.

Sometimes a guess with deeper thoughts comes from town whether its right or wrong, so the depth is what I'd be looking for, personally.

It's a hard ask to vote for someone else I think could be a town leader today, but if you were to try to aim for that outcome, this would be the path of doing so, in order for me personally to get there in the hours remaining.

He didn't do much in cycle one, other than provide a few thoughts and vote counts

I think he's trying to exe either Hoid Slayer or CD, neither of which are likely elims.

I think Twinstorm is another Elim. I don't know who the other would be, Booknewt, maybe? 

The reason I think he's an Elim in the first place is by process of Elimination, it's not me, Pizza, CD, or Hoid Slayer, and probobly not Ksause or KelsierApologist. That leaves Aeter, Doc, Striker, TwinStorm, and Booknewt.

[TwinStorm He/Him]

1 minute ago, IcedOutPenguin said:

He didn't do much in cycle one, other than provide a few thoughts and vote counts

I think he's trying to exe either Hoid Slayer or CD, neither of which are likely elims.

I think Twinstorm is another Elim. I don't know who the other would be, Booknewt, maybe? 

The reason I think he's an Elim in the first place is by process of Elimination, it's not me, Pizza, CD, or Hoid Slayer, and probobly not Ksause or KelsierApologist. That leaves Aeter, Doc, Striker, TwinStorm, and Booknewt.

Hoid and CD are not likely elims? Evidence pls?

Also, why me? Evidence?

Also Doc has been giving helpful reads and vote counts, clearing fog of war and confusion

This is all too suspicious for me

IcedOutPenguin

Edited August 8, 2025 by TwinStorm
edited for explanation

[Aeternum]

2 minutes ago, IcedOutPenguin said:

He didn't do much in cycle one, other than provide a few thoughts and vote counts

I think he's trying to exe either Hoid Slayer or CD, neither of which are likely elims.

I think Twinstorm is another Elim. I don't know who the other would be, Booknewt, maybe? 

The reason I think he's an Elim in the first place is by process of Elimination, it's not me, Pizza, CD, or Hoid Slayer, and probobly not Ksause or KelsierApologist. That leaves Aeter, Doc, Striker, TwinStorm, and Booknewt.

Would it be possible to get a one sentence explanation for each of your reads? Because I am having a very hard time tracking your worldview. Specifically Hoid Slayer, CD, and TwinStorm.

[IcedOutPenguin He/Him]

2 minutes ago, TwinStorm said:

Hoid and CD are not likely elims? Evidence pls?

They aren't defending themselves

2 minutes ago, TwinStorm said:

Also Doc has been giving helpful reads and vote counts, clearing fog of war and confusion

He's trying to hard to sell his inocent role

Just now, Aeternum said:

Would it be possible to get a one sentence explanation for each of your reads? Because I am having a very hard time tracking your worldview. Specifically Hoid Slayer, CD, and TwinStorm.

I'm having a hard time tracking my reads too

[Aeternum]

3 minutes ago, IcedOutPenguin said:

They aren't defending themselves

What about this do you find towny?

[Hoid Slayer He/Him]

A'right

Time for me to make an analysis post before rollover

6 hours ago, Doc12 said:

4) An exchange I personally found very funny

20 hours ago, Hoid Slayer said:

Why [Worldhopper]?

Give a good enough reason in the next four minutes, and I might consider switching

20 hours ago, Aeternum said:

I vote elims, sometimes.

Did something I find e!indicative that I semi caught Iced on last game or a couple games ago, and I'm giving CD (who I find more likely to be an elim rn) some time because I'm nice.

20 hours ago, Hoid Slayer said:

I don’t like that answer

20 hours ago, Hoid Slayer said:

Pizza ThatOneWorldhopper

I want Iced to live

I was desperate, k 

6 hours ago, Doc12 said:

And that's the cycle. 

Going back to Pizza's first scenario, where all the candidates (Pizza, Penguin, CD, possibly Aeternum) are village, I suppose there's nothing more to read from this than villagers panicking. Aeternum didn't suspect one of Pizza, Penguin, or CD enough to vote on them directly, or supposed he might as well add Worldhopper to the mix and leave it up to chance to see who dies. Hoid Slayer just trusted his read of Penguin enough that he decided to abandon his suspicion of Pizza to at least get someone else killed. It's just interesting that the priority for Hoid Slayer wasn't as much getting someone he suspected killed as much as to save one specific player he trusted. It's also interesting that this trust isn't returned as they've been arguing this cycle. 

In the second scenario, where at least one of the candidates (Pizza, Penguin, CD) were evil, the sudden additional 2 votes on another candidate makes sense. Worldhopper already had one vote from before. Aeternum (who still might be village - him saying that if Worldhopper flips Elim then I would be Elim feels genuine to me) puts Worldhopper on the table, and even though Hoid Slayer explicitly says he doesn't like Aeternum's reasoning decides to vote for Worldhopper anyway purely to save Penguin. In this scenario, Hoid Slayer and Penguin are evil together. Alternatively, there's a scenario where Penguin is innocent and Hoid Slayer evil, but Hoid Slayer wanted to save someone else in the pool, knew it would be suspicious, and named a villager as the person he was trying to save in a gambit. Who knows? 

Greeblas, how's my reasoning? 

Also, I feel it important to note that in the chaos of last night, I actually failed to realize Aeternum had two votes on them - I thought the only options were Penguin, Worldhopper, and Pizza. And it's not really that I wasn't prioritizing getting someone I suspected killed; it's that I didn't know who to suspect, but thought I knew one person not to.

Essentially, I took the decision that would have been decided by chance and took it into my hands inside.

6 hours ago, Askthepizzaguy said:

I am a firm believer that the truth from each person's POV is useful in breaking the puzzle open, if stuff doesn't make sense just be patient and ask questions and get to the truth. If stuff is just wrong, call it out gently until something gives.

Why this tends to work is, no matter how strange or muddled someone's perspective is when they're innocent, there is a truth somewhere buried down at the bottom of it, making the foundation of their argument, even if the conclusion is wrong.

But if someone is guilty at some point they have to give a wrong solve, for false reasons, using bad logic, and sometimes it can take days or several rounds of questioning to get to the truth. But as long as the folks involved who are innocent cooperate with the thinking and solving process, no matter how critical or messy it can get, the truth they know for a fact is true can shine, and assist others with the solve.

And even if that process fails and we don't catch it in time, when someone dies, the truth of their position becomes known anyway.

The objective I have is to try to get to that truth before someone dies and can't come back.

Because it's better to guess people are town correctly while they're still alive, because that helps you catch guilty people earlier, for better reasons.

@Aeternum @Doc12 added some thoughts, edited in.

I agree with all of this. Which is why I constantly try to fight for people's reasoning, even when I'm not sure about my own.

3 hours ago, Askthepizzaguy said:

Long RP here.

  Reveal hidden contents

To be honest, Greebas was always more of a loner. While not a law breaker, he could see that sometimes the sort of justice meted out by those who would enforce the law, would at times be unjust. 

The justice carried out is only as good as the people carrying it out, the law is only as good as the people writing it and enforcing it, and the guilt or innocence of a person is determined by people who have human failings, and aren't always correct.

The law is a wonderful, beautiful, humane idea, an optimistic vision of how we can make society into a better place, one where justice is always the outcome, and the righteous are protected, and the guilty always get what they deserve.

The human side of the law can fail that optimistic vision, Javert.

Will humans ever be so good that they can carry out the most ideal version of the law? Especially when ignorance, inexperience, emotion, impaired judgment, wrath, sentiment, bias, start to creep in?

And think on it the other way... what if the law being carried out was utterly bereft of things like mercy, or second chances, or extenuating circumstances, what if the punishment for every law being broken was always death? 

So long as laws are absolute, but people are flawed, the law is only an ideal, one we will always fall short of making into a reality.

Some part of our humanity must also be part of the law. For those who seek to make the law and make it suit only them, wield it like a gauntlet to use against their enemies. Greebas, while not a lawbreaker, also not really a big fan of the corruption and power that comes when big groups of people get together to make political might. So he tends to stay away from that, while respecting morality and the law when it comes around. Greebas always tried to be good, however neutral he was otherwise.

Nybbeth, in life, wielded the power of the law on his side. He used to enforce the laws of his people, and was given great power to do so by his kingdom. Lots of wealth, funds for his research, and plenty of condemned criminals to experiment on as he saw fit. They were all guilty, so no one cared what happened to them.

And when his power became concentrated enough, no laws could contain him. He only ever used the law as a bludgeon against those who could not fight back against him. There was no mercy in his version of the law.

Lawful, but evil, was Nybbeth. And then when the law no longer could restrain him, when the laws of nature herself no longer applied, when war came and the laws of nations no longer applied to him, in that dead zone where the only law is what you make, Nybbeth exploited that power vacuum to make only death. Under the rules of war, nothing he ever did was illegal. Under the laws of nations, nothing he ever did to the condemned was illegal.

The laws of men are merely tools. The same as the undead I rose from the grave, they would obey, and only ever obey. They always follow orders. They never think for themselves. They do not have the hearts of men, or the morality of man. No frail or corruptible mortal laws constrain them, only the ultimate law, obedience. These automatons feel nothing, desire nothing, have no bias or sentiment. You could call them the ultimate expression of the law. They always follow my commands.

You see, Javert?

The law is a wonderful idea, the idea that man can be made perfect, without flaw, and justice can be made perfect by men.

But law without morality, without judgment, without wisdom, without compassion, is no law at all.

It is only obedience, and obedience is only as good as the thing you are obeying.

Even I would admit, I did not have others' best interests at heart. I simply desired power over death and the freedom to do whatever I wanted. Even if that cost everyone else their lives and freedoms. The law was always a mere constraint, not a true obstacle to my desire to rule the world.

And everything he did was technically legal at the time, he was in a position to execute the condemned as he saw fit, then the war began and he had a steady supply of prisoners, and corpses.... and then, his army of the undead fought in that war. No laws were ever broken.

Then, when he faced the judgment of the divine, and passed beyond life, he felt the consequences of a lifetime of evil. And, through our arcane bond, so did Greebas.

An eternity of that would make anyone reconsider their position.

The gods certainly have their punishments for us, if we are wicked. The gods have a justice beyond all our imaginings, I would presume. Far be it for Greebas to question their judgment. But... if there is even a chance... that a mortal being can choose to do the right thing, for a day... and then the next day, and the next day, and the next day, and start to do good in the world, start to bring justice to the world, start to bring compassion and morality to the world, they are better off doing that than being thrown away.

I don't know of too many souls who would bother to have mercy or compassion for a correctly condemned criminal. I certainly had none in life. And I would have paid the ultimate price for that lack of compassion, if not for this mortal.

Greebas still doesn't believe you've repented, Obdilaurd.

Redemption is a big ask. Not everyone who seeks it should even be granted it. You need to be sincere.

Aye, that's correct. You know what you have to do, to walk the path. 

I'm not sure I would know how without your guidance.

Don't try to trick Greebas with your honeyed words. What you choose to do with your life, should you ever have one again, when you have the freedom to choose, will determine what sort of man you can become. Until then it is all just promises, promises.

In any case, Javert, death comes to us all. Even those of us who tried to hide from it, trick it, master it, use it against others.

The law itself is much like death. Some with the power to avoid the law, will wield their power and avoid the law. Some with the power to wield death and judgment against others, will do so for corrupt reasons. Some will try to gain absolute mastery over life and death, and some will try to be above the law, and make the law a cudgel to use against everyone else. And the law is not a sentient being, it does not decide whether that kind of law is right or wrong, or should change. We do.

And Greebas, while not a brigand or a criminal, didn't have much use for societies or their law enforcers, also didn't have much fondness for death, either. Greebas was a pacifist before the war, and then death came for the innocent people that Greebas knew who had done nothing wrong. Deep in that dark cave, Greebas wielded the power of death for the very first time, and hoped he could use it to stop the cycle of death and destruction. 

But the cycle of death and destruction continued everywhere. It changed only a small part of the world, but it was still the right thing to do, in that moment. 

In an ideal world, that optimistic version of both law and death, it applies equally to us all. We would all be subject to its power, and we would all suffer the consequences equally. But as I have shown, the law can be bent. And so can death itself.

In an ideal world there would be no death and no criminality, and no need for seekers of justice, there would simply BE justice. The mere fact of law enforcement means there is no justice but what we make, and there is no law but what we give. And however we express that law, can be good or bad. Our judgment can be right, or wrong.

And death can come to the innocent in an unjust, rushed manner, while the guilty go free.

And even live forever, unbound by any laws but the natural consequences of my own actions.

So, Greebas, admires and respects your vision of the law. The one where justice follows, naturally, from the law.

But it is not automatic, Javert. The law does nothing as a scroll on a desk. It must be a belief we all share, and it should be subject to our judgment, whenever it is wrong. And we must be subject to the law, not separate from it.

Without mercy or compassion, the law is simply an automaton, like those undead beings Nybbeth created, it only seeks to execute the orders it is given.

But, a living breathing being, with sound mind and judgment, might execute not only the laws of men, but also bring justice and compassion to those who would absolutely have been lost forever without it.

You almost sounded sincere there for a moment, Obdilaurd.

I hope to show you one day that I was being sincere just now. Not everyone gets second chances and while I might not have been the wisest or most compassionate man in life, I was never stupid. I understand how the world works, and that if not for you, I never would have been given that second chance.

And how rare and precious that mercy truly is. No one who followed my orders in life had... whatever it is that motivates you, Greebas.

Hmph.

Yes they did. You can't let them off the hook that easily. They just didn't listen to it when it mattered.

 

Will read this when I'm not under pressure to finish this thing in ten minutes

2 hours ago, Askthepizzaguy said:

Hoid's attitude toward me is strange when I know I am town and I just said I would probably need to burn him today and then he makes a big wall post where he puts me as town.

Note, this is part of what is getting him killed, is he's not voting for me again, and the person he voted to save specifically yesterday is voting to kill him.

Well, I'm not voting for you again because a new perspective makes me think you're innocent.

I'm here to find the lawbreakers, not act on revenge.

54 minutes ago, StrikerEZ said:

Anyway, I haven't touched D1 at all, but I've read all of D2 so far. Hoid Slayer and Iced are absolutely elims together.

Uhh... what?

He's been hammering me all cycle

36 minutes ago, IcedOutPenguin said:

The fact that CD and Hoid Slayer aren't defending themselves makes me think it's not them

Hoid Slayer

Doc12

Appreciate you thinking I'm innocent - but I didn't go inactive of my own will.

Aaaaand like that, I need to go play Ultimate Frisbee and don't have time for a super long analysis post of my own. So, sorry folks, I don't have time for math right now.

Iced is being very weird, so I'll leave my vote for now, but I'll try to check this again before rollover.

Keep in mind that if I do manage, however, I won't have time for more than like a quick vote change or something.

My activity this cycle hasn't been ideal, but it's the best I could manage.

[IcedOutPenguin He/Him]

2 minutes ago, Aeternum said:

What about this do you find towny?

They don't care* If they get voted out

[Askthepizzagal He/him]

1 minute ago, IcedOutPenguin said:

He didn't do much in cycle one, other than provide a few thoughts and vote counts

I think he's trying to exe either Hoid Slayer or CD, neither of which are likely elims.

I think Twinstorm is another Elim. I don't know who the other would be, Booknewt, maybe? 

The reason I think he's an Elim in the first place is by process of Elimination, it's not me, Pizza, CD, or Hoid Slayer, and probobly not Ksause or KelsierApologist. That leaves Aeter, Doc, Striker, TwinStorm, and Booknewt.

I know you and I haven't seen eye to eye on anything yet.

I appreciate that you're reaching out and trying to work with me and laying out what you think.

Can you get me there on Ksauce in particular? I am having trouble finding why theyre town. Why do you have them town? Sell me on it, if you think strongly about it. Or even if you don't, why you have them as town at all, can help me read both you and them at the same time.

My guess would be somewhere in the middle of this, (even if I were to mark you town as town and also doc as elim, to explore that world) I don't know that the entire elim team is in that latter pile for sure. 2 in one, one in the other, i would imagine. Even could be the case if Doc is town, you might have put the elims in the right pile, mostly.

I don't have a reason why your guess cannot be correct as the suspect pile being 3/3 contained within that pile.

I have town reads on Aeternum with an admitted bias that I feel I could read him over time, he's my friend, but that doesn't mean I actually catch him right away when he's guilty.

I feel as though Doc, if he is town, losing him here, would be quite devastating. If he's elim, devastating the other way, so it's one of those calls that has to be right.

Twin, Striker, Booknewt, and Ksauce for me, are hovering around null and some of them read like theyre just trying to get to the next round without kicking up a fuss or interacting with me too much.

I don't thiiiink Booknewt is wolf anymore but I also can't shield them specifically? Give them a day pass maybe, if you think you can agree on the day pass anyway.

I generally find myself trusting, and perhaps too much, the following-

Spoiler

Someone really wants to work with me a whole lot, and also, someone badly wants to kill me and susses me and explains why I am evil and all that, because I believe in the fact that people believe in things.

Especially if I can see how their mind gets there, on both. It demonstrates investment in the read.

I don't think it's a hard call that I'm town and I expect elims are going to represent me as either town or maybe town as opposed to sussing me here, so i can't give tons of credit on that.

I generally dislike sneaking to the next round over and over without causing a fuss.

Spoiler

That said, I feel like that may be a cultural thing. Not an ultra super serious gotta be here 99 hours and solve it out like me kinda deal.

For all I disagreed with Hoid's solve, and yours, I can't deny that you put those opinions out there to be judged for them. 

 

This is my feedback. @IcedOutPenguin

[Hoid Slayer He/Him]

21 minutes ago, IcedOutPenguin said:

He didn't do much in cycle one, other than provide a few thoughts and vote counts

I think he's trying to exe either Hoid Slayer or CD, neither of which are likely elims.

I think Twinstorm is another Elim. I don't know who the other would be, Booknewt, maybe? 

The reason I think he's an Elim in the first place is by process of Elimination, it's not me, Pizza, CD, or Hoid Slayer, and probobly not Ksause or KelsierApologist. That leaves Aeter, Doc, Striker, TwinStorm, and Booknewt.

Wait

What makes you feel good about Ksauce and Polly?

[TwinStorm He/Him]

@IcedOutPenguin can you pls show me why Doc and I are elims? I'm confused by your thought process, or have I just missed something?

[Askthepizzagal He/him]

I'm unfortunately using my gut right now, so please forgive me.

But Twin doesn't feel particularly guilty to me right now, despite me having them light town, then I dunno, my gut is putting them back in okay tier here.

I feel like I've unduly lumped them into a group of people Im struggling on where they really arent doing anything wrong, and are being here interacting and solving enough.

It's just not fully registering in my brain so I am having difficulty trusting it because even if theyre active, their activity feels quiet in terms of tone, so it doesnt stick out or ruffle feathers, but that doesnt make it guilty behavior.

 

To explain the turbulent gut read as clearly as I can.

Edited August 8, 2025 by Askthepizzaguy
always too many spaces after.

[Doc12]

Thank you to people who are defending me? I don't really see how I can defend myself against IcedoutPenguin. I'm just letting my actions speak for themselves. Interesting to see the vote shifts. Aeternum followed me on to CD. Striker wanted to lock down Hoid Slayer. Iced moved to me. We're now in a tie situation again. I'm very willing to break the tie I am just genuinely confused now. 

Seems like the consensus on CoderDrag0n8 is he's too suspicious to be suspicious/he's just new. That seems to be as much discussion as I can get from voting on them. 

IcedoutPenguin... I mean I don't understand where you're coming from, but right now I'm viewing you as harmless and confused. 

Hoid Slayer, again it seems too easy. But yeah. Let's see how this plays out. 

I really want @KelsierApologist @KaladinsSenseOfHumorSpren and @Booknewt to tell me who they're actually suspicious of and vote. 

12 minutes ago, Askthepizzaguy said:

I know you and I haven't seen eye to eye on anything yet.

I appreciate that you're reaching out and trying to work with me and laying out what you think.

I want you to know I respect you so much for trying so hard to work with people and get them to articulate thoughts

I also appreciate Twinstorm and Aeternum for being so active this cycle and voting. 

 

Current Vote Count, 3 hours before cycle end

Hoid Slayer (3): CoderDragon8, StrikerEz, Doc

IcedoutPenguin (2): Hoid Slayer, Twinstorm

CoderDrag0n8 (1): Aeternum

Doc12  (1): IcedOutPenguin

 

[TwinStorm He/Him]

1 minute ago, Doc12 said:

Thank you to people who are defending me? I don't really see how I can defend myself against IcedoutPenguin. I'm just letting my actions speak for themselves. Interesting to see the vote shifts. Aeternum followed me on to CD. Striker wanted to lock down Hoid Slayer. Iced moved to me. We're now in a tie situation again. I'm very willing to break the tie I am just genuinely confused now. 

Seems like the consensus on CoderDrag0n8 is he's too suspicious to be suspicious/he's just new. That seems to be as much discussion as I can get from voting on them. 

IcedoutPenguin... I mean I don't understand where you're coming from, but right now I'm viewing you as harmless and confused. 

Hoid Slayer, again it seems too easy. But yeah. Let's see how this plays out. 

I really want @KelsierApologist @KaladinsSenseOfHumorSpren and @Booknewt to tell me who they're actually suspicious of and vote. 

I want you to know I respect you so much for trying so hard to work with people and get them to articulate thoughts

I also appreciate Twinstorm and Aeternum for being so active this cycle and voting. 

 

Current Vote Count, 3 hours before cycle end

Hoid Slayer (3): CoderDragon8, StrikerEz, Doc

IcedoutPenguin (2): Hoid Slayer, Twinstorm

CoderDrag0n8 (1): Aeternum

Doc12  (1): IcedOutPenguin

 

thanks for the vote count!

I was curious where we were standing but am too lazy to dig through 5 pages of SE since those things are dense 

[Askthepizzagal He/him]

Doc12, if you're a guilty, I want you to know that I find it very difficult to represent the particular thought you just had, regarding how you're actively appreciative of me reaching out to folks who are suspecting you and asking them to walk through that world and also, look at worlds where youre guilty.

The town read, is too easy.

That other thought is kinda difficult to pull out of a completely false worldview and also motivation.

That's more impressive than faking a townie generally high wim and activity role all game so far, and also, more impressive than reading me town or pocketing me.

I dont know that a guilty pulls out that particular card just then. Thats a thought that comes from someone trying to solve a mystery and wolves have no such mystery to solve.

TLDR for folks who hate my wordiness, I think Doc is town for this reason. Ok, its a narrow needle to thread to come up with that brainwave when he's actually guilty, so I think he's a miss and shouldnt be elimmed today.

That said, I think Doc can be right on Penguin, their pushes here read extremely weird in a good way, like, I dont know if a wolf does all that. 

If Doc is town, and Penguin were a wolf, going directly from me, to Hoid!town, to doc!town as suspects is a really bold and creative choice. 

There is also something intrinsically consistent about the approach, like, he's going after the big loud talkers that might actually be legitimately confusing him and from his perspective, maybe the wolves control the game, so he's looking for the exact right name in those names?

I can buy that happened.

[KaladinsSenseOfHumourSpren He/Him]

7 hours ago, Doc12 said:

EoD = End of Day, typically the last 1-2 hours before the cycle ends

W/e= whatever

Alright thanks.

2 hours ago, Doc12 said:

@KaladinsSenseOfHumorSpren: Couple of posts. last post was saying Iced's post made some sense but still refraining from a solid conclusion. Honestly leaning negative until they convince me otherwise. Can we get a vote from you?

I'll vote now, then.

1 hour ago, Askthepizzaguy said:

Starseeker and Kaladfin are on the borderline, but, I think if they can press a wolf to death, that's a decent sign. I just worry I miscleared here, because of the RP and coasting from starseeker. They aren't interacting very deeply.

@KaladinsSenseOfHumorSpren

It's possible my memory is just faulty, I'm extremely tired, please don't take that as a shot at you if its a mischaracterization, I just cant remember anything youve done besides your very well done entry roleplay.

I voted Iced last cycle.

I also backed Iced this cycle, before I realised that he didn't make all that much sense.

52 minutes ago, Hoid Slayer said:

A'right

Time for me to make an analysis post before rollover

I was desperate, k 

Also, I feel it important to note that in the chaos of last night, I actually failed to realize Aeternum had two votes on them - I thought the only options were Penguin, Worldhopper, and Pizza. And it's not really that I wasn't prioritizing getting someone I suspected killed; it's that I didn't know who to suspect, but thought I knew one person not to.

Essentially, I took the decision that would have been decided by chance and took it into my hands inside.

I agree with all of this. Which is why I constantly try to fight for people's reasoning, even when I'm not sure about my own.

Will read this when I'm not under pressure to finish this thing in ten minutes

Well, I'm not voting for you again because a new perspective makes me think you're innocent.

I'm here to find the lawbreakers, not act on revenge.

Uhh... what?

He's been hammering me all cycle

Appreciate you thinking I'm innocent - but I didn't go inactive of my own will.

Aaaaand like that, I need to go play Ultimate Frisbee and don't have time for a super long analysis post of my own. So, sorry folks, I don't have time for math right now.

Iced is being very weird, so I'll leave my vote for now, but I'll try to check this again before rollover.

Keep in mind that if I do manage, however, I won't have time for more than like a quick vote change or something.

My activity this cycle hasn't been ideal, but it's the best I could manage.

I feel like Iced voting for you and then switching is him trying to distance from you...

Well, Richard @IcedOutPenguin

[Askthepizzagal He/him]

Ok, thanks kaladins.

Also would love more starseeker RP if you have some.

 

 

 

 

 

[KaladinsSenseOfHumourSpren He/Him]

3 minutes ago, Askthepizzaguy said:

Ok, thanks kaladins.

Also would love more starseeker RP if you have some.

Starseeker contemplated what had happened yesterday. The death of Worldrow and Seth. Two innocents. 

Life before Death, the Skybreakers had said. Strength before Weakness, Journey before Destination. The Immortal Words. 

"Journey before Destination," he whispered. He watched Uranihran Lash himself into the air, glowing with Radiance. His contact at the perpendiculatiry had told him that there once were Ten Orders of Knights Radiant, who protected this world. Now, it was down to only one that operated in secret.

He would need another Breath in 5 days. He either had to somehow find one, or become Radiant before then. He would become better, perfect himself to speak the Words and become a Skybreaker. And that meant finding these Evildoers. 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Not much, but I haven't checked the rest of my Shard notifications today and need to get on with that.

[Doc12]

45 minutes ago, Askthepizzaguy said:

Doc12, if you're a guilty, I want you to know that I find it very difficult to represent the particular thought you just had, regarding how you're actively appreciative of me reaching out to folks who are suspecting you and asking them to walk through that world and also, look at worlds where youre guilty.

The town read, is too easy.

That other thought is kinda difficult to pull out of a completely false worldview and also motivation.

That's more impressive than faking a townie generally high wim and activity role all game so far, and also, more impressive than reading me town or pocketing me.

Likewise, there's always the possibility that you've completely fooled me and are just laughing at us chasing our own tails, but you've honestly done the bulk of carrying the discussion when as an Eliminator you really didn't have to. So either way I respect you. If either of us dies tonight, I hope to see you in more SE games!

Also cool! Tie again!

Hoid Slayer (3): CoderDragon8, StrikerEz, Doc

IcedoutPenguin (3): Hoid Slayer, Twinstorm, KaladinsSenseofHumorSpren

CoderDrag0n8 (1): Aeternum

Doc12  (1): IcedOutPenguin

 

Anyone feel like tiebreaking?

[Askthepizzagal He/him]

@KelsierApologist @Booknewt

I would prefer if you weigh in now.

 

 

 

 

 

[TwinStorm He/Him]

Kaladfin didn't belong. He had been taken as a mistake, and roped into becoming a trainee Skybreaker. He wasn't even good at following laws. Most people ignored him, but he was still worried.

What if they find out? I'm no Skybreaker. I used to jaywalk as a youth. I still do!

Calm. He needed to be calm and focus. Focus on finding these evildoers. By whatever means necessary.

Good lie.

Kaladfin whirled, terrified. Had the others heard? Would anyone notice?

Silly mortals don't hear right.

"Fractal?" he whispered, "what are you doing here?"

I am your spren, Kaladfin of the shiny rock.

Kaladfin blushed. The day he had meant Fractal, he had been sitting on a shiny rock. It was how Fractal referred to him now. Strange spren. It was a Cryptic, or so Fractal said.

"Yes, but would you stop talking?" he hissed.

Say the words. You have not spoken them yet, but I am your spren.

"Fractal . . . " he tried weakly.

Say the words.

He breathed shakily. "Life . . . before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before . . . journey before destination."

Fractal hummed happily, and Kaladfin, to his horror, started to glow. The spheres nearby went dun.

"What now?" he whispered, horrified, still glowing.

Hide. Lie. You are Lightweaver. Lie. Be a Skybreaker. Find the evildoers, keep your oaths. Good lies. 

Kaladfin nodded. He had a hard task ahead of him, but necessary. He breathed out Stormlight, and, with careful efficency, created an illusion of a highspren near his head.

Edited August 8, 2025 by TwinStorm
edited for . . . storytelling?

[CoderDrag0n8 He/They]

1 hour ago, Doc12 said:

Thank you to people who are defending me? I don't really see how I can defend myself against IcedoutPenguin. I'm just letting my actions speak for themselves. Interesting to see the vote shifts. Aeternum followed me on to CD. Striker wanted to lock down Hoid Slayer. Iced moved to me. We're now in a tie situation again. I'm very willing to break the tie I am just genuinely confused now. 

Seems like the consensus on CoderDrag0n8 is he's too suspicious to be suspicious/he's just new. That seems to be as much discussion as I can get from voting on them. 

IcedoutPenguin... I mean I don't understand where you're coming from, but right now I'm viewing you as harmless and confused. 

Hoid Slayer, again it seems too easy. But yeah. Let's see how this plays out. 

I really want @KelsierApologist @KaladinsSenseOfHumorSpren and @Booknewt to tell me who they're actually suspicious of and vote. 

I want you to know I respect you so much for trying so hard to work with people and get them to articulate thoughts

I also appreciate Twinstorm and Aeternum for being so active this cycle and voting. 

 

Current Vote Count, 3 hours before cycle end

Hoid Slayer (3): CoderDragon8, StrikerEz, Doc

IcedoutPenguin (2): Hoid Slayer, Twinstorm

CoderDrag0n8 (1): Aeternum

Doc12  (1): IcedOutPenguin

 

wait can someone tell me when the cycle ends PST?

also rp:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

CD didn't know what to do. There seemed to be so little evidence. Everyone is pointing fingers, and he doesn't know what's happening. He still can't remember everything, and this whole situation just feels... wrong. No spren described have appeared. There has been a strange ripple or broken space near him, but that is probably just a hallucination.

[Aeternum]

1 hour ago, IcedOutPenguin said:

They don't care* If they get voted out

That's not always towny ngl. Easy to fake. But ok, I can understand that.

Idk really how I feel about wagons rn.

2 minutes ago, CoderDrag0n8 said:

wait can someone tell me when the cycle ends PST?

6 pm.

[Askthepizzagal He/him]

Final 11 players, Day 2

Colored reads list inside, to avoid confusing the host with the bold and coloring.

Spoiler

TheUnknownOrder
TheOneWorldHopper

Greebas/Pizza
Doc12- town prob
Aeternum*- town prob
Twinstorm- town read
KelsierApologist- town read
Striker/Val- wild guess town
KaladinsSenseofHumorSpren- wild guess town
Booknewt- wild guess town
CoderDrag0n8  - can contain elim
Hoid Slayer- can contain elim
IcedOutPenguin - can contain elim

Don't just mow down all three names without reconsidering everything if one flips town, is my suggestion.

Note- the town read on Aeternum isn't really critically examined by me as of yet. Also, I like Kelsier a whole, whole lot based on day 1, its just that "gravity" has an effect, if you don't show up, you go down each day.

So if things go bad, reassess. Pretty much every time you miss with your guesses, re-assess everyone in your town pile and make sure they still belong there.

Striker is probably way too high on this list; what I suggest is that if the bottom 3 names aren't wolves, or if the aren't all wolves, you check striker later. I just seriously wonder if Striker deserves death, or a free pass for slanking. It's 50 50 and I lean being pass-giving but really, Striker needs to be dunking an elim today or tomorrow or its really rough times defending him on the near nothing he's given, seemingly deliberately. I am bad at finding guilty persons who don't post. Following my principles, this slot needs more time to grow a read, and make an impact on the game. Please do not abuse my generosity in that regard and don't forget about this person if the game gets very hard.

Purple is like a barely not-today pass. I can't strongly defend them, meaning.

If theyre town, the guilty kinda have to be in my green pile or the bottom pile, they have to be somewhere, so.

In the bottom 3, I am not fully "getting" the worldview. I've tried to put myself in those shoes and see it.

I also don't think all three flip elim. That seems beyond optimistic and I also wouldn't be surprised if any name flipped innocent. Just.... probably need to look here, in this group of 3, even a little bit, before I go elsewhere.

I think Hoid or Iced should flip today to check into that world, and if that's wrong, think about who is not villagery enough and also looks actually guilty enough to flip the next day.

Note, if I die, my reads can be garbage, I'm just universally townread and that can be the real reason I died. Or, just my top townreads can be good. or, its oppressive to have to deal with me every day when youre guilty, any of the above.

 

About 45 mins prior to end of day 1

Spoiler

AskthePizzaGuy: (2) Hoid Slayer, IcedOutPenguin 
IcedoutPenguin: (2) Booknewt, KaladinsSenseofHumorSpren
CoderDrag0n8: (2) Twinstorm, Doc12
Aeternum: (1) KelsierApologist 
Twinstorm: (1) CoderDrag0n8 
KaladinsSenseofHumorSpren: (1) ThatOneWorldhopper 
ThatOneWorldhopper (1): TheUnknownOrder  
not voting- Striker/Val

 

end of day 1

Spoiler

ThatOneWorldhopper: (3) The Unknown Order, Aeternum, Hoid Slayer
Aeternum: (2) KelsierApologist, Doc12
IcedOutPenguin: (2) KaladinsSenseofHumorSpren, Booknewt
AskthePizzaGuy: (1) IcedOutPenguin 
KaladinsSenseofHumorSpren: (1) ThatOneWorldhopper 
CoderDrag0n8: (1) Twinstorm
Twinstorm: (1) CoderDrag0n8  
not voting- Striker/Val

 

Current as of this writing, D2

Spoiler

Hoid Slayer (3): CoderDragon8, Striker/Val, Doc12
IcedoutPenguin (3): Hoid Slayer, Twinstorm, KaladinsSenseofHumorSpren
CoderDrag0n8 (1): Aeternum
Doc12: (1): IcedOutPenguin 

Not voting- Booknewt, Askthepizzaguy, KelsierApologist

 

Here are important questions that you can have answers to based on today's flip:

Look at the booknewt+Kaladins wagon on Penguin.

If Penguin is guilty, what does that say about book and Kaladins?

If Penguin is innocent, what does that say about Book, Kaladins, and also, Hoid Slayer voting in a panic to save Penguin, who obviously isn't his elim buddy in that world? What if the save was on someone else? (meaning, if Hoid were guilty)

What if Hoid flips today and is innocent?
What does that imply about where the wolves have to be? Probably doesn't constrain it too much except that I'm not one of them.
 

 

@Aeternum

Factoring in a possible self preservation vote by Penguin, I probably counter-vote that here.

You and the folks not voting need to decide between I think. I don't favor a CFD onto other names.

I need to sleep, badly, it is 1:30 am here and I need to be up all day tomorrow. Please acknowledge the above analysis.

I know you don't do walls, but regardless what happens today, you understand my process of, this absolutely answers questions about day 1. How, the info that is revealed no matter which name flips, and what alignment, is probably vital to get here, and I am not sure it can be gotten simply by talking it out anymore, especially not in the time remaining today.

As to the explanation why I need a flip there instead of just asking more questions. Make sense?

It's not actually that hard or a lot to read, its just 3 wagon analyses with color coding, where blue is clear, green is town reads, purple is where I would look when the bottom names are a bust, and no color is folks I need to know their alignment to solve the game.

Edited August 8, 2025 by Askthepizzaguy
editing spacing

[CoderDrag0n8 He/They]

13 minutes ago, Aeternum said:

That's not always towny ngl. Easy to fake. But ok, I can understand that.

Idk really how I feel about wagons rn.

6 pm.

thx

[Askthepizzagal He/him]

@IcedOutPenguin

I don't think doc is a hit right now.

Will you be voting Hoid here, or someone else?