[RPG] Speculating on Venli's next ideals, based on the RPG.

[LuckyJim]

Now that the RPG is officially released and we know the basics of Willshaper ideals, I thought it would be fun to theorize on what Venli's progress as a Willshaper could be in the back half. This isn't so much a prediction as it is half speculation, half fanfic based on what I'd like to see from Venli moving forward. That being said, here it is.

Third ideal: I will fight oppression, even if that oppression comes from within (a sample ideal taken shamelessly from the player handbook)

Now, the obvious next step would be to find a group Venli doesn't like and have her fight their oppression. Perhaps a group of humans suffering under Fused/Retribution's rule. I think that's really boring though, moreover, I don't think that's an issue Venli has to deal with. She already had her second oath rejected because she didn't help a human child, and her whole arc in RoW was helping the humans during the Urithiru occupation. She's already gotten over the flaws that were preventing her from acting, and 10 years from now she'll probably be even more put together. Instead, I think the oppression Venli has to fight, is her own oppression of herself. Venli still has a lot of guilt for her actions, even though everyone she cares about is willing to look past them and accept that she's trying to do better. I think it would be interesting if this guilt holds her back from growing as a Radiant. Going from power hungry to feeling she doesn't deserve power and fearing that she might abuse it, to progress she has to learn to forgive herself.

Beyond Venli's own personal growth, however, I think this ideal could also extend to her relationship with the listeners. The listeners feared Odium's influence so much that they cut themselves off from progressing as a society rather than touch anything close to Odium. Suppressing their feelings, relationships, rigidly holding to tradition rather than innovate or experiment. Venli's desire to bring back the forms wasn't just out of personal ambition, but a genuine and justified desire to see the listeners regain what they'd lost when separating from Ba-Ado-Mishram. Through this third oath, Venli could finally see that she really can lead the listeners to recover what they'd lost.

Fourth ideal: I will take responsibility for those I have freed

When she summoned the Everstorm, Venli nearly eradicated the listeners, but she also brought freedom to an entire species of people who would have remained mindless slaves without her intervention. Millions of singers were given their minds back and able to pursue freedom for themselves. This isn't to say what she did was good, but not all of the consequences of her actions were bad. Of course, as a Willshaper, it's not enough to acknowledge that she freed them, she has to help them make the most of that freedom.

In RoW, Venli began teaching singers about the listeners to help give them the confidence to find their own path. It was only a couple dozen singers and she didn't really do much for them, so it could be an interesting arc for her to try again and look beyond the Shattered Plains to help singers across Roshar be able to fully understand their freedom and help them figure out their place with it.

I'm not confident that these will necessarily be Venli's ideals, or even that they will be close to where her arc ends up going. I think it makes sense for her character and could lead to some interesting development, but Sanderson may have different ideas. Regardless, I'm interested to hear thoughts or if people have alternative ideas.

Edited July 27, 2025 by LuckyJim

[Treamayne]

2 hours ago, LuckyJim said:

Now that the RPG is officially released

The RPG is in spoiler period - Please keep information in the appropriate section, or use appropriate spoiler tags. 

 Please see: 

Quote

Brandon Games

• Stonewalkers

Discuss Brandon-related tabletop games, such as the Cosmere RPG, here. This board contains cosmere spoilers.

Guidance posted there is:

On 7/22/2025 at 7:42 PM, Chaos said:

Hi everyone,

Here is how we will be doing spoiler policy for the RPG on the forums, which will match the Discord.

• For the Worldbook, there will be a two week spoiler period, which will require content from that to be tagged everywhere except for the new Brandon Games forum. After that, that content is permitted in Cosmere Discussion and Stormlight. 
• The Brandon Games forum will have cosmere spoilers in it.
• For the Stonewalkers adventure, people will likely consume this content very slowly. As such, this will have to be spoiler tagged everywhere for the foreseeable future. Discussion will be permitted untagged in the Stonewalkers subforum of the Brandon Games board.

Hope that helps

[LuckyJim]

4 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

The RPG is in spoiler period - Please keep information in the appropriate section, or use appropriate spoiler tags. 

I assumed including the fact that this was based on information from the RPG in the title, as well as using “Stormlight rpg” as tag was the appropriate spoiler tag. Is there anything I should change, or does the whole post need to be moved?

[Treamayne]

16 minutes ago, LuckyJim said:

I assumed including the fact that this was based on information from the RPG in the title, as well as using “Stormlight rpg” as tag was the appropriate spoiler tag. Is there anything I should change, or does the whole post need to be moved?

That would be up to the Mod. i didn't read the post yet, because I haven't read the PDFs yet - but I would expect that any information directly from teh RPG would be in a spoiler tag. That said, the title might be enough, I mostly just wanted to make sure you were aware of the Spoiler Period. I clicked the post without seeing any spoiler tag at all because it was not visible (see below):

Spoiler

That said, having "RPG" be the last thing in the title means it does not show up on the summary in the Cosmere or all forums sections - in the past "Tagging a Title" meant that the very first thing in the title is the tag (for example, do a search for [OB] to see how it was done with Oathbringer). So, at a minimum, I would suggest editing the title to something like:

• [RPG] Speculating on Venli's next ideals

Hope that helps

Edited July 27, 2025 by Treamayne
SPAG

[bmcclure7]

2 hours ago, Treamayne said:

The RPG is in spoiler period - Please keep information in the appropriate section, or use appropriate spoiler tags. 

 Please see: 

Guidance posted there is:

Hope that helps

Were can we go to discuss spoilers for the rpg?

[Argenti he/him]

1 minute ago, bmcclure7 said:

Were can we go to discuss spoilers for the rpg?

https://www.17thshard.com/forums/forum/128-brandon-games/

Here-in.

The spoiler period is only two weeks for everything but stonewalkers, so it's fine.

[Chaos he/him]

13 hours ago, Treamayne said:

That would be up to the Mod. i didn't read the post yet, because I haven't read the PDFs yet - but I would expect that any information directly from teh RPG would be in a spoiler tag. That said, the title might be enough, I mostly just wanted to make sure you were aware of the Spoiler Period. I clicked the post without seeing any spoiler tag at all because it was not visible (see below):

  Reveal hidden contents

That said, having "RPG" be the last thing in the title means it does not show up on the summary in the Cosmere or all forums sections - in the past "Tagging a Title" meant that the very first thing in the title is the tag (for example, do a search for [OB] to see how it was done with Oathbringer). So, at a minimum, I would suggest editing the title to something like:

• [RPG] Speculating on Venli's next ideals

Hope that helps

Treamayne, can you please just report posts and let us handle things? Thanks.

14 hours ago, LuckyJim said:

I assumed including the fact that this was based on information from the RPG in the title, as well as using “Stormlight rpg” as tag was the appropriate spoiler tag. Is there anything I should change, or does the whole post need to be moved?

Yes, this is appropriate. Topic tags suffice. It is also fine for you to have it as you had.

[Treamayne]

39 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Treamayne, can you please just report posts and let us handle things? Thanks.

Copy all. My apologies. 

[Highprince645343]

This makes me wonder, what would the 5th ideal for the willshapers be? I'd personally guess something like "I will seek freedom for myself, so that I may also seek it for others".

[DSCrankshaw]

I think the fifth Ideal would be personal for each Radiant order, but would follow the basic theme. I'm not sure it can be nailed down better than that. I know the RPG doesn't try. 

[Teravangian]

I believe her oath will mirror Lopens. I will fight oppression, even if it comes from me, or to me.