Are a lot of the Fused dead in the future?

[Sythrin]

Anti light seems to be much more common and easy to access. Do you think a good chunk, maybe even the majority is dead in the future?

[Elite01]

I could see them being “retired” a majority were going insane towards the end of SA5 

makes you wonder if more would get created or they would be replaced with different troops.

 

as far as anti light I don’t know if it’s super easy to get, right now you need to get voidlight (from Roshar) clear its identity, then reverse it. You would have to go behind enemy lines to get it.

[BinarySecond]

I think they could be retired. They only real reason Rayse didn't make more was because of the deal with Honour I believe? No more Heralds, no more Fused.

Taravangian is very likely to make any "tool" he sees as necessary.

[+robardin he/him]

14 hours ago, BinarySecond said:

I think they could be retired. They only real reason Rayse didn't make more was because of the deal with Honour I believe? No more Heralds, no more Fused.

Taravangian is very likely to make any "tool" he sees as necessary.

You assume Mr. T is still the Vessel of a shardic dyad called Retribution in the Cosmere Space Age (Era 4?)... Definitely there were hints that may not be the case, if you choose to interpret them that way...

[BinarySecond]

8 hours ago, robardin said:

You assume Mr. T is still the Vessel of a shardic dyad called Retribution in the Cosmere Space Age (Era 4?)... Definitely there were hints that may not be the case, if you choose to interpret them that way...

I don't assume that; I just think it could happen while he's the holder. He's got at least 20 Rosharan years I think; he's got the Blackthorn, I could see him considering additional Fused as an option for his war.

I think back to Words of Radiance when they've reached Urithiru and Dalinar is moaning all his lost commanders and High Prince Roion, even Sadeas.

Having highly skilled commanders/soldiers you don't really mind losing per battle is a great boon if you're a utilitarian monster.

[bmcclure7]

On 7/28/2025 at 5:59 PM, robardin said:

You assume Mr. T is still the Vessel of a shardic dyad called Retribution in the Cosmere Space Age (Era 4?)... Definitely there were hints that may not be the case, if you choose to interpret them that way...

Just the opposite if anything everything we see points to him still being a vessel what are you even talking about?

[+robardin he/him]

On 8/17/2025 at 11:36 AM, bmcclure7 said:

Just the opposite if anything everything we see points to him still being a vessel what are you even talking about?

You know, I've spent a week or so wondering what it is I meant by that, and I'm not sure.

I know when I read Emberdark that a few references to Shard type events or bombshells from "a few decades ago" allowed for something big happening on Roshar to change the basis from where we last saw it in WaT, but that doesn't necessarily mean that change was a Retribution Split-Up or Evolution, whether or not that involved a change in Vessel.

Things like... (looking over what I highlighted in my e-book)

Offhand and current references to Rosharans using gemstones for illumination, i.e., filled with Light, when globally available Stormlight via regular highstorms had ended, and filling gemstones with Warlight required singers (specifically) to make a daily prayer to Retribution. Which presumably still "leak" the way Stormlight gems did. So are all lit gemstones now funneled through the singer nation at Narak? Or has Roshar regained "normal" highstorms again (which had been created before the Shattering!)?

The fact that the "Battle of Aheleha" (a very Alethi sounding name) was where Dajer got his lungs burned when the very sky was set aflame, something that sounded a lot like what we saw Supercharged Jasnah pull off at Thaylen Fields in Oathbreaker; so are Radiants now working with Retribution instead of being cocooned in Urithiru to avoid him? How might that come to pass?

Ed getting cut off before describing Harmony, the "Scadrian" that he worshipped as a Pathian despite not being Scadrian in origin himself, as being "nice" and "the only known living Shard who has performed the --"

The what? THE WHAT, ED?

I think I thought at the time I read this, that perhaps this was a reference to Harmony being a double Shard. And if Harmony was now the "only known living [double] Shard" then that would mean Retribution was either no longer a double Shard, or no longer living... But I admit that's a reallllllly big stretch.

There are "several major powers at war", too, not just Roshar vs. (Malwish) Scadrial, but that's another angle.

That plus the hidden planet of Yolen, with a restricted perpendicularity to it from Silverlight (or more accurately, that Silverlight had been built around, even before the Shattering), had kept secret for millenia by dragons as the "source of nearly all life in the cosmere and the origin of the Shards", but which then had that secret revealed "quite dramatically a few decades back".

Big Stuff Happened, and a Shardic Shake-Up would not surprise me, but that's far from saying it was clearly suggested (of course it wouldn't be).

 

EDIT: oh, and to return to the topic in the title of this thread, we saw what certainly seems to be a Skybreaker of at least the Fourth Ideal coming to First of the Sun, not a Fused. Is it possible that while Radiant spren can now leave Roshar, after the freeing of B-a-M in WaT, that the Fused are still bound to the Rosharan System due to their tie to the Everstorm?

Edited August 26, 2025 by robardin

[BinarySecond]

I would think it is the nature of Braize than stops Cognitive Shadows from leaving the Rosharan system.

 

This would affect the Heralds as well; a rather neat solution to the question I can see being asked "Why aren't the Heralds just ending the war immediately" - They couldn't even if they wanted to.

[bmcclure7]

On 8/26/2025 at 9:17 AM, robardin said:

You know, I've spent a week or so wondering what it is I meant by that, and I'm not sure.

I know when I read Emberdark that a few references to Shard type events or bombshells from "a few decades ago" allowed for something big happening on Roshar to change the basis from where we last saw it in WaT, but that doesn't necessarily mean that change was a Retribution Split-Up or Evolution, whether or not that involved a change in Vessel.

Things like... (looking over what I highlighted in my e-book)

Offhand and current references to Rosharans using gemstones for illumination, i.e., filled with Light, when globally available Stormlight via regular highstorms had ended, and filling gemstones with Warlight required singers (specifically) to make a daily prayer to Retribution. Which presumably still "leak" the way Stormlight gems did. So are all lit gemstones now funneled through the singer nation at Narak? Or has Roshar regained "normal" highstorms again (which had been created before the Shattering!)?

The fact that the "Battle of Aheleha" (a very Alethi sounding name) was where Dajer got his lungs burned when the very sky was set aflame, something that sounded a lot like what we saw Supercharged Jasnah pull off at Thaylen Fields in Oathbreaker; so are Radiants now working with Retribution instead of being cocooned in Urithiru to avoid him? How might that come to pass?

Ed getting cut off before describing Harmony, the "Scadrian" that he worshipped as a Pathian despite not being Scadrian in origin himself, as being "nice" and "the only known living Shard who has performed the --"

The what? THE WHAT, ED?

I think I thought at the time I read this, that perhaps this was a reference to Harmony being a double Shard. And if Harmony was now the "only known living [double] Shard" then that would mean Retribution was either no longer a double Shard, or no longer living... But I admit that's a reallllllly big stretch.

There are "several major powers at war", too, not just Roshar vs. (Malwish) Scadrial, but that's another angle.

That plus the hidden planet of Yolen, with a restricted perpendicularity to it from Silverlight (or more accurately, that Silverlight had been built around, even before the Shattering), had kept secret for millenia by dragons as the "source of nearly all life in the cosmere and the origin of the Shards", but which then had that secret revealed "quite dramatically a few decades back".

Big Stuff Happened, and a Shardic Shake-Up would not surprise me, but that's far from saying it was clearly suggested (of course it wouldn't be).

 

EDIT: oh, and to return to the topic in the title of this thread, we saw what certainly seems to be a Skybreaker of at least the Fourth Ideal coming to First of the Sun, not a Fused. Is it possible that while Radiant spren can now leave Roshar, after the freeing of B-a-M in WaT, that the Fused are still bound to the Rosharan System due to their tie to the Everstorm?

“So are all lit gemstones now funneled through the singer nation at Narak? Or has Roshar regained "normal" highstorms again (which had been created before the Shattering!)”

we can assume that all of Roshar can pray and get war light so long as the are not enemies of Retribution. 
 

“so are Radiants now working with Retribution”

yes as of Rythm of War at least two orders work Him 

“The fact that the "Battle of Aheleha" (a very Alethi sounding name“

 

Alethi is under control of Retribution 

Retribution is the one who what’s to conquer the cosmere the the Radiance has no reason to be conquering the Cosmere 

 

If Roshar is conquering the cosmere then Retribution is in charge of Roshar 

Edited August 31, 2025 by bmcclure7

[Elegy he/him]

We have no idea what Roshar will look like in space age Cosmere, just like we had no idea what post-WAT Roshar would look like after reading Way of Kings back in 2010 ... You gotta remember that we did not know what the Fused even are 3 books ago. I imagine Stormlight will have become an entirely different story within 3 more books, let alone 5. There's still half of the series to go, and it would be ridiculous if after all of that, the 5 million words saga would just end with its main antagonist winning or maintaining the power that he gained after book 5 of 10. Then why would Brandon need to write 5 more books?

I think that the only thing we can assume about space age Roshar right now is that the situation with Odium and the Fused has drastically changed since WAT, just because of storytelling necessities.

 

Edited September 4, 2025 by Elegy

[bmcclure7]

On 9/4/2025 at 5:05 AM, Elegy said:

We have no idea what Roshar will look like in space age Cosmere, just like we had no idea what post-WAT Roshar would look like after reading Way of Kings back in 2010 ... You gotta remember that we did not know what the Fused even are 3 books ago. I imagine Stormlight will have become an entirely different story within 3 more books, let alone 5. There's still half of the series to go, and it would be ridiculous if after all of that, the 5 million words saga would just end with its main antagonist winning or maintaining the power that he gained after book 5 of 10. Then why would Brandon need to write 5 more books?

I think that the only thing we can assume about space age Roshar right now is that the situation with Odium and the Fused has drastically changed since WAT, just because of storytelling necessities.

 

Strongly disagree based on everything we have seen so far I don’t think the situation has changed dramatically at the very least retribution, is still in control of most of those Roshar 

[Elegy he/him]

5 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

Strongly disagree based on everything we have seen so far I don’t think the situation has changed dramatically at the very least retribution, is still in control of most of those Roshar 

But what exactly are you refering to? We know next to nothing about the state of Roshar. It participating in galactic colonialism doesn't need an evil Shard to explain it, it's an outgrowth of being technologically advanced. Scadrial is doing the same with Sazed still around and being "nice" by Ed's standards. Warlight and singer Radiants can still be a thing without Retribution. What of that is a better argument than "Brandon wouldn't write 5 more books if nothing happened in them"?

[bmcclure7]

9 hours ago, Elegy said:

But what exactly are you refering to? We know next to nothing about the state of Roshar. It participating in galactic colonialism doesn't need an evil Shard to explain it, it's an outgrowth of being technologically advanced. Scadrial is doing the same with Sazed still around and being "nice" by Ed's standards. Warlight and singer Radiants can still be a thing without Retribution. What of that is a better argument than "Brandon wouldn't write 5 more books if nothing happened in them"?

I wouldn’t say we know nothing we know that
1. Roshar is in conflict with other powers and appears to be trying to conquer other planets

 

2. The knight’s radiant are still around in some way.

 

3. The sky breakers are part of the military forced used to conquer other planets.

If you think about the implications of these facts, you realize that we know far more about the state of Roshar then you think

[Elegy he/him]

2 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

If you think about the implications of these facts, you realize that we know far more about the state of Roshar then you think

We really don't. Using the same logic, you would have to assume that Scadrial is also ruled by an evil Shard. But human history has shown that wanting to gain influence on weaker cultures is not something that needs an evil god. Everything I said above still stands. We have no idea and almost anything can happen in Stormlight 6-10.

[+robardin he/him]

3 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

I wouldn’t say we know nothing we know that
1. Roshar is in conflict with other powers and appears to be trying to conquer other planets

 

2. The knight’s radiant are still around in some way.

 

3. The sky breakers are part of the military forced used to conquer other planets.

If you think about the implications of these facts, you realize that we know far more about the state of Roshar then you think

All true statements, but, bear in mind that by the time of Emberdark, a lot of time has passed in the Cosmere since Retribution's Ascension at the end of WaT. And that that is not aligned with publication/reading time, so any major changes between SA5 (which is before Misborn Era 2 of Wax and Wayne) and the "Space Age" (Mistborn Era 4) would probably not get spoiler references.

Similarly to The Sunlit Man, which even features a protagonist we directly saw in Stormlight Archives 1-5, Brandon may drop hints as to technological developments between "where we last saw Scadrial / Roshar" in publication time vs. in-world Cosmere time, but will avoid mentioning major plot developments, even obliquely.

For example, even before Emberdark, based on the previously standalone Sixth of the Dusk novella (June 2014), we knew that in the "space age", Scadrial had FTL ships and scanning technology powered by the Metallic Arts even before we knew about "unsealed metalminds" from Bands of Mourning (Jan 2016). But IIRC, there was no mention of the "Ones Above" being people wearing masks in SotD, as that wasn't something we'd see from the Malwish until BoM -- those tidbits are only in the "new" interleaved chapters in Emberdark (excused by the fact that it took several years for them to "get close enough" to Vathi and Co. to remove their masks/face covering helmets).

In other words, the fact that we see a Skybreaker with Plate and Blade (Gun) flying (FTL?) to First of the Sun without a spaceship, and that he represents Roshar as a power in opposition to the Scadrians (and more -- implying Nalthis or other planets are similarly competing for Cosmere dominance), doesn't mean that Roshar is still in the same state as we saw at the end of WaT.

Since Brandon knows we know (in Summer 2025) that a large segment of Skybreakers, alone of all ten Radiant orders, swore to Odium and thus to Retribution in SA4 and SA5, that could be as much the reason we see a Skybreaker in Emberdark as anything else, so as not to spoil something.

What hints we do have, is that Pathians (followers, not worshipers!, of Harmony) still exist; that at least one non-Scadrian in Ed venerates Harmony, as "the only known living Shard who has performed the --" (...the what? What would a Shard "perform", some kind of rite or ritual?)

Also, Starling, Ed, et al., know and speak of Shards quite casually, like it's common knowledge, and name drop quite a few, even ones long Splintered: Autonomy, Ambition, Dominion, Invention... But they do NOT name Retribution when referring to Roshar.

Then again, "Harmony" is never mentioned by that name either, despite Ed's fingering of a Pathian earring and referring to "the Scadrian Shard" as a "he" who is a "living Shard who has performed" something... All while the last we saw of Harmony in TLM, he had a "dark shadow", and we had reminders of those epigraphs even from the original trilogy about the Hero of Ages being called "Discord".

So if you read between the lines, Brandon is very carefully NOT admitting or denying that Harmony and Retribution exist as they were "the last time we read about them" in Summer 2025.

Does that mean Roshar isn't unified under Retribution in the Space Age, with Taravangian as its Vessel, directing Radiants? No. But there's certainly room for that NOT being the case!

Especially considering how the "Honor" component of Retribution was evidently still somewhat separate at the end of WaT, having been more conscious than most un-Vesseled Shards and needing Taravangian to appease it even after he took it in combo with Odium, and had been prepped in some way while Connected to Dalinar to... Grow? And also remember that SA6-10, to "complete" the second arc of Stormlight Archive and the Story of Roshar, takes place about 15 years after WaT, while Emberdark is way, WAY past that.

It would be EXTREMELY surprising if SA10 ended with the Shardic Situation on Roshar being the same as at the end of Wind and Truth, if you ask me.

Edited September 10, 2025 by robardin
added/fixed years in dates

[bmcclure7]

1 hour ago, Elegy said:

We really don't. Using the same logic, you would have to assume that Scadrial is also ruled by an evil Shard. But human history has shown that wanting to gain influence on weaker cultures is not something that needs an evil god. Everything I said above still stands. We have no idea and almost anything can happen in Stormlight 6-10.

Yes, I would agree. That is exactly the same logic I come to concerning Scadrial

[Elegy he/him]

18 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said:

Yes, I would agree. That is exactly the same logic I come to concerning Scadrial

Well we were told this much: Sazed is still alive, still a Shard, is still considered Scadrian, and is called nice by Ed, in contrast to the Scadrian colonialists, who he sees as very problematic. In contrast to Roshar, we actually know stuff about space age Scadrial, and it seems comparatively safe to say that Sazed isn't acting like Retribution would and hasn't been replaced by something that does. There are workarounds, but those seem like crackpot theories in comparison to the more obvious conclusions, and I also don't think they are necessary to explain it. Like I said, humans have never needed evil gods to do bad stuff.

As for everything else, I've made my points above and they still stand.

[bmcclure7]

On 9/10/2025 at 2:43 PM, Elegy said:

Well we were told this much: Sazed is still alive, still a Shard, is still considered Scadrian, and is called nice by Ed, in contrast to the Scadrian colonialists, who he sees as very problematic. In contrast to Roshar, we actually know stuff about space age Scadrial, and it seems comparatively safe to say that Sazed isn't acting like Retribution would and hasn't been replaced by something that does. There are workarounds, but those seem like crackpot theories in comparison to the more obvious conclusions, and I also don't think they are necessary to explain it. Like I said, humans have never needed evil gods to do bad stuff.

As for everything else, I've made my points above and they still stand.

 
I see two possibilities

1. Harmony has either split or been replaced by discord. 
 

2. Harmony has become utterly inactive because of his contrary intents

Given what we hear about him, I am guessing a combination of one and two.  Either way it is clear given the actions of the Southerners that his intent has become more darker or he has become inactive. 
 

I suspect that the condition on Scadrial will mirror the condition of Roshar just with the Southerners in place for the singers by the end of the ghost blood era

Edited September 11, 2025 by bmcclure7

[+robardin he/him]

On 9/10/2025 at 3:43 PM, Elegy said:

Well we were told this much: Sazed is still alive, still a Shard, is still considered Scadrian, and is called nice by Ed, in contrast to the Scadrian colonialists, who he sees as very problematic. In contrast to Roshar, we actually know stuff about space age Scadrial, and it seems comparatively safe to say that Sazed isn't acting like Retribution would and hasn't been replaced by something that does. There are workarounds, but those seem like crackpot theories in comparison to the more obvious conclusions, and I also don't think they are necessary to explain it. Like I said, humans have never needed evil gods to do bad stuff.

As for everything else, I've made my points above and they still stand.

Actually we were carefully NOT told that "Sazed is still alive and a Shard", only that the Scadrian Shard Ed venerates via a Pathian earring is a "living Shard" with a "he" pronoun, and the only living Shard that has "performed" something (that presumably only a living Shard could do, and not "performed a piano duet with Xisis").

And the Shard of neither Scadrial nor Roshar is ever named, so they might not even be "Harmony" and "Retribution" by the time of Emberdark. Could be "Discord" and ... something else?

One PRESUMES that'd still be Sazed as the Vessel of the Shard on Scadrial, but within less than 400 years of Cosmere time (the time between Hero of Ages and Wind and Truth) we saw four of sixteen Shards get new Vessels, two Vessels get killed in so doing, two separate and independent cases of a Vessel "double Sharding it", a Shard flee a system she'd long been inhabiting/Investing (Cultivation) to go who knows where and to do what, and a direct incursion by one Shard (Autonomy) on another Shard's home planet (like, not just where the Shard had Invested but where the vessel had actually originated, too!)...

And SotD is or was supposed to have been "centuries" after Mistborn/Stormlight Archives. Lots of time for lots more Shardic Shenanigans to happen!

Combine that with Sazed getting "Discordant" at the end of Era 2, who knows, it's not impossible that some other Scadrian takes up power in his place somehow... Where's Spook been at? LOL. (I am not seriously suggesting that, but pointing out that Brandon has clearly left himself a LOT of wiggle room)

Edited September 11, 2025 by robardin

[+Oltux72 he/him]

That would entirely depend on whether the Fused age. Giving your body to a Fused to return is suicide and you have to sort of want to do it for it to work. They'll run out of Singer volunteers pretty quickly on Roshar. And I doubt it would work as a method of execution. 

[+robardin he/him]

16 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

That would entirely depend on whether the Fused age. Giving your body to a Fused to return is suicide and you have to sort of want to do it for it to work. They'll run out of Singer volunteers pretty quickly on Roshar. And I doubt it would work as a method of execution. 

There's also the question of motivation on the part of the "donor" singer.

The classic premise is that they were willingly giving up their lives to host one of their "gods" who would fight against the humans in a "Return" (for millenia, of course, what the humans termed a "Desolation", the singers viewed as an opportunity to return to dominance of Roshar).

With Roshar basically under the dominion of Retribution at the end of WaT, excepting only Azir and Urithiru, and the world under a never-ending Everstorm, there seems to be little need to host a Fused. Unless some aggressive foray of Unoathed comes out of Azir to attack, or Radiants emerge from the crystalline cocoon that was Urithiru, what's there for the Fused to fight with and then to die?

I mean, it's one thing to decide it's worth dying to bring back some glorious strategist like Raboniel, or a hero warrior like Lezian the -- uh, maybe there are better examples, but the point is, the battle for Roshar has essentially been won, from their POV, right? There's even a new sovereign listener nation of Narakistan on Roshar.

I guess there's the spirits of all the not-yet-Returned Fused on Braize at the end of WaT that maybe would like to come back, but you know, tough rockbuds, that's the way the chouta crumbles, and all that?

[+Oltux72 he/him]

On 9/30/2025 at 2:53 AM, robardin said:

With Roshar basically under the dominion of Retribution at the end of WaT, excepting only Azir and Urithiru, and the world under a never-ending Everstorm, there seems to be little need to host a Fused. Unless some aggressive foray of Unoathed comes out of Azir to attack, or Radiants emerge from the crystalline cocoon that was Urithiru, what's there for the Fused to fight with and then to die?

I mean, it's one thing to decide it's worth dying to bring back some glorious strategist like Raboniel, or a hero warrior like Lezian the -- uh, maybe there are better examples, but the point is, the battle for Roshar has essentially been won, from their POV, right? There's even a new sovereign listener nation of Narakistan on Roshar.

I guess there's the spirits of all the not-yet-Returned Fused on Braize at the end of WaT that maybe would like to come back, but you know, tough rockbuds, that's the way the chouta crumbles, and all that?

That raises a big point. To which extent are the Fused now motivated by self-interest? Do they want eternal war? They personally may come to the conclusion that unleashing the Blackthorn to cause a war in which the Parshendi (let's call them that) need the Fused to protect Roshar is absolutely what they need and want. How many of the Fused will convince themselves that the Parshendi are culturally speaking human and that a continued dominance of the Fused is needed if that shameful contamination is to be wiped out and Singer culture to be resurrected?

And in turn, if Navani wakes up and finds that the Singers are at war with the rest of the Universe under the leadership of her husband's ghost, what will she do? What will Jasnah do? It seems to me that, if Jasnah Kholin will come to the conclusion that the rest of the Cosmere will destroy Roshar if the Singers lose, she will do what is necessary to protect Roshar.