Could A Shardblade Slice a Spren?

[Yados]

I think it could.

A Shardblade cuts the life out of living things without physically touching them. It burns the life out them. Does it kill the soul? Possibly. But let's assume for now that it just slices the soul from the body without any physical cause of death.

If it slices someone's arm, the person loses their connection with that arm. I mean, maybe it just burns out the nerve endings or something physical, but these swords are stored in the Spiritual Realm when they aren't being used. They must have something more than that. Maybe it slices through the spiritweb itself.

If that's true, I think that Spren, cognitive beings, might be vulnerable to Shardblades in a way that they're not vulnerable to physical weapons.

I wonder that's what they're for...

Edited June 2, 2012 by Yados

[CabbageHead]

I think it could.

A Shardblade cuts the life out of living things without physically touching them. It burns the life out them. Does it kill the soul? Possibly. But let's assume for now that it just slices the soul from the body without any physical cause of death.

If it slices someone's arm, the person loses their connection with that arm. I mean, maybe it just burns out the nerve endings or something physical, but these swords are stored in the Spiritual Realm when they aren't being used. They must have something more than that. Maybe it slices through the spiritweb itself.

If that's true, I think that Spren, cognitive beings, might be vulnerable to Shardblades in a way that they're not vulnerable to physical weapons.

I wonder that's what they're for...

Could be the reason that Syl has such an aversion to them. Interesting thought.

[Jack the Halls]

This makes me wonder. If what you're saying comes to pass (and I don't see why it can't), why would a weapon against the spren be needed at all? Hm...

[Sweetness]

Sprenzilla O.O

[Jack the Halls]

Sprenocalypse!

[Yados]

Okay, a question that would tie this into some other things:

If Syl "died" would Kaladin lose his Surgebinding?

[Aethling]

The problem would be catching a spren to put the theory to test. I do not see Syl just standing around. After all, she does spend much of the time as nothing but wind blown weeds. The small girl form seems to be intangible. I can't recall Kaladin saying he felt her, just saw her. She only spends one scene as a fully grown woman.

I doubt it would cut her though. She has always seemed more ghostlike than solid to me.

[Wisdom]

Don't glory-spren sometimes fly around particular people (generally with Blade+Plate)? Considering how fast they move their sword it would probably be very easy for them to accidentally kill glory-spren while fighting.

[Yados]

The problem would be catching a spren to put the theory to test. I do not see Syl just standing around. After all, she does spend much of the time as nothing but wind blown weeds. The small girl form seems to be intangible. I can't recall Kaladin saying he felt her, just saw her. She only spends one scene as a fully grown woman.

I doubt it would cut her though. She has always seemed more ghostlike than solid to me.

That's the point, though. Obviously conventional weaponry wouldn't touch Spren. They're non-corporeal.

Not only is Syl almost definitely intangible, but that giant, Superspren at Axies observes can't even cast real waves.

However, we see Syl fighting against Deathspren. We know they're creatures of the cognitive realm. Another thing that is semi-intangible is a shardblade when it passes through someone/thing that's alive. That's where the question comes from. Shardblades kill living things without a physical cause of death. Sprens have the potential to be, through interaction with humans, sentient. They are probably "alive" regardless. Thus, I wonder if a Shardblade could harm a spren and, more importantly, if that could be their true purpose. How else would you fight a malevolent Spren?

Don't glory-spren sometimes fly around particular people (generally with Blade+Plate)? Considering how fast they move their sword it would probably be very easy for them to accidentally kill glory-spren while fighting.

Could be, but I think they usually show up after. We also don't know if just spren-spren would interact with the physical world in the same way that a spren like Syl or the Symbol Heads do.

[CrazyRioter]

to answer the question, I'm quite sure that if Syl was killed off somehow, Kaladin would lose his Surgebinding.

[Triasmus]

However, we see Syl fighting against Deathspren. We know they're creatures of the cognitive realm. Another thing that is semi-intangible is a shardblade when it passes through someone/thing that's alive. That's where the question comes from. Shardblades kill living things without a physical cause of death. Sprens have the potential to be, through interaction with humans, sentient. They are probably "alive" regardless. Thus, I wonder if a Shardblade could harm a spren and, more importantly, if that could be their true purpose. How else would you fight a malevolent Spren?

When did it become known to us that Spren are of the cognitive realm? I've been under the assumption that they're of the spiritual.

[Windrunner]

I don't think it ever has been confirmed, or if it has it isn't in the Interview Database. This is the closest to confirmation we have.

INTERVIEW: Nov 23rd, 2011

Alloy of Law Signing Report - Tortellini (Paraphrased)

TORTELLINI

My next question was a random idea I had based on the answer about entities living primarily in the cognitive realm given here. I asked (stupidly, you'll see why in a second): "Could it be that spren and seons are basically very similar things?"

BRANDON SANDERSON

He smiled, thought about how to answer that for a second and then said... "Yes, it could be."

TORTELLINI

I very much got the impression that I was correct though, but I gave him the perfect opening to appreciate the question without answering it at all. Stupid me. I explained that I had the idea that seons exist primarily as cognitive entities with smaller presences in the physical world, while spren are primarily spiritual, also with smaller presences in the physical world. He just smiled for a second, and I said I'd take that as a possible yes and let him get back to signing books for the awesome Waterstone's in Manchester. I'm writing up my thoughts on that in this post.

Source

[Yados]

Ah, so I had assumed Cognitive. Spiritual works just as well though as the swords are from the spiritual realm themselves.

[Aethling]

Spren V. Spren fighting doesn't really have any relevance to them being physical. A better example would be when she attempts to keep the Highstorm away from Kaladin, but even that really doesn't prove much because she was largely useless. Syl doesn't have any independent intelligence either. At one point she offers to do something for Kaladin, but she tells him it would make her revert back to her original state. Non-Corporeal, lack of independent intelligence. I just cannot see where the shards would affect her. Maybe other Spren. Fire spren lock into a size when measured, but they still change shape. Nightspren, are only theorized in the book. Rotspren, maybe. Kaladin shows that some substances keep them away or drive them out. Deathspren are doubtful as they seem to only appear to the afflicted and only at the weakest moments. Lifespren seem to avoid humans. The only references I can remember are ones talking about plants.

I still think that Syl's hatred of the blades goes back to them being of Odium as has been theorized.

[Jack the Halls]

Could there be something like a shard-scalpel, used not as a weapon but for healing?

[Sweetness]

Could there be something like a shard-scalpel, used not as a weapon but for healing?

I'm not sure how that would work, honestly. Shardblades don't cut skin.

[hoser]

Syl doesn't have any independent intelligence either.

I think it is specifically cognition (as in Shadesmar) that she lacks without the Nahel bond.

At one point she offers to do something for Kaladin, but she tells him it would make her revert back to her original state.

As I recall, what she offers to do is to stop the changes she is making to Kaladin. I presume that to be the Nahel bond. I think it gives each of them some aspects of the other. Kaladin gets the ability to infuse, lash, stormride, magnify his voice, etc. Syl gets cognition. The books provide a detailed evolutionary path of her evolving cognitive development, including understanding lies, sarcasm, white lies, remembering her name, remembering the kind of spren she is. If she dissolves the Nahel bond, then presumably they both revert.

[Jack the Halls]

It wouldn't be for cutting skin so much as being precise enough to cut rotspren.

[Triasmus]

"Do [rotspren] cause [infection], or are they attracted to it?"

[name_here]

While that's posed as an enigma in-universe, I think that Spren actually do cause what they're associated with. Essentially, because Syl fought deathspren and Kaladin survived being essentially flayed for a rather unusually long period even before he got Stormlight smuggled to him, it seems rather plausible that deathspren cause death, and thus so do similar spren.

[CrazyRioter]

it is my personal belief that the relationship between spren and the phenomenon they are associated with is essentialy a feedback loop, they do not cause the things, but their presence strengthens the thing in question, which attracts more spren, which strengthens the effect further etc.

[Triasmus]

Then how do Shin die? Supposedly there's no Spren in the Valley of Truth. (That question's just there to make you think. There's a few answers that have already popped into my head that can make what you believe correct.)

I think spren are just attracted to things and that Syl was irrationally fighting off the deathspren, trying to do something for Kaladin when she really could do nothing. Of course, since the spren are actually "beings" they might be able to make things stronger (eg a small gust gets turned into a not-so-small gust), I just don't think they're "awesome enough" to cause things.

fyfr it is very, very hard for me to actually write my opinions as opinions instead of fact, so every fact I give should be accompanied with a grain of salt.

Edited June 4, 2012 by Lantern13

[Tulir]

That also brings the question of why there are fear-, anger- and anticipationspren, but not joyspren or other types of spren related to emotion. Why are there logicspren but not liespren? This goes to the question of whether spren cause what they are associated with. I believe they are just drawn to their type. Because do all of the emotionspren cause that emotion? Probably not. And Axies said that sometimes even the most common types of spren, refuse to appear. Do rainspren cause rain and windspren create the wind? It doesn't seem likely.

[Smidge]

I figured the 'Syl fighting off deathspren' scene was largely symbolic, like when she tries fighting off the highstorm to little effect. I agree that spren might be able to slightly influence things, but I doubt it's to any great degree. Syl struggles to carry a leaf which might make a decent measure of their ability to influence the world.

Re: the original topic: Clearly spren are voidbringers. I do wonder about shardblades though, they must have been created for a reason (ie. conventional weapons weren't effective (enough)). The only two likely possibilities I can think of are that they were made for fighting things with very strong armor (big shelled creatures seems a strong possibility considering Roshar's love of things with shells), or to be able to work on something incorporeal considering they are a bit incorporeal themselves (spren are the only thing we've seen so far that might be like this). Perhaps spren have an evil voidish counterpart for which shardblades were made to harm.

[Aeshdan]

Re: the original topic: Clearly spren are voidbringers. I do wonder about shardblades though, they must have been created for a reason (ie. conventional weapons weren't effective (enough)). The only two likely possibilities I can think of are that they were made for fighting things with very strong armor (big shelled creatures seems a strong possibility considering Roshar's love of things with shells), or to be able to work on something incorporeal considering they are a bit incorporeal themselves (spren are the only thing we've seen so far that might be like this). Perhaps spren have an evil voidish counterpart for which shardblades were made to harm.

One thing we know was used in the desolations is the Thunderclasts, which seem to be animate stone. Those things would be almost impossible to kill with a physical weapon, but a Blade would be perfect for fighting them.