Talns Honorblade?

[Hoids Imaginary Friend]

At the end of WoK Talns Honorblade is described as a giant spike, there was even theories of it being possibly related to hemalurgy.

And in WaT it's described as a giant wedge.

I'm curious at the discrepancy..

Thoughts?

[SpartanBrigade He/Him]

11 minutes ago, Hoids Imaginary Friend said:

At the end of WoK Talns Honorblade is described as a giant spike, there was even theories of it being possibly related to hemalurgy.

And in WaT it's described as a giant wedge.

I'm curious at the discrepancy..

Thoughts?

They’re two different swords. In Oathbringer chapter 38 Dalinar realizes the Blade Taln’s got now is different from the one he arrived at the Shattered Planes with.

[Treamayne]

26 minutes ago, Hoids Imaginary Friend said:

At the end of WoK Talns Honorblade is described as a giant spike, there was even theories of it being possibly related to hemalurgy.

And in WaT it's described as a giant wedge.

I'm curious at the discrepancy..

Thoughts?

It may not be a discrepancy, it may be the PoV of the person (Hoid perceived a spike shape, Szeth a Wedge (because that was what he had been taught and seen depicted in Shin artwork). 

Consider mentioning it in WaT Typos and Peter will clarify if it was a mistake or intentional. 

 

10 minutes ago, SpartanBrigade said:

They’re two different swords. In Oathbringer chapter 38 Dalinar realizes the Blade Taln’s got now is different from the one he arrived at the Shattered Planes with.

That was the sword that Taln showed up with in the Warcamps. That sword was bonded by Dalinar, then used to discredit Amaram and unbonded in Urithiru when he became a Bondsmith. @Hoids Imaginary Friend is referencing the WaT Scene where we find out it had been the Shin who stole it from Kholinar (or an agent who then delivered to the Shin) before Taln moved to the Shattered Plains. WaT Ch 40:

Spoiler

“I was told you’d come sooner. It’s been months of waiting.”

Months? How did they know?

She raised her hands before her and summoned a Shardblade. Unornamented, shaped like a long wedge. A brutal weapon, lacking the grace of its fellows, but somehow also more honest. A weapon that he’d seen depicted in art many times.

Talmut’s Honorblade.

“You had no leave to reclaim that,” Szeth said, summoning his own Blade. “Talmut should have his weapon.”

You don’t need that! Nightblood said from his back. I’m better than a dumb Shardblade made from a dumb spren. Use me!

“Talmut broke,” the woman said. “He brought the Desolation. His Blade is better held by the worthy.”

For comparison, WoK Epilogue:

Spoiler

Outside the gates, standing on the dark stone roadway, was a solitary man with dark skin. His hair was long and matted, his clothing nothing more than a ragged, sacklike length of cloth wrapping his waist. He stood with head bowed, wet, ratty hair hanging down over his face and mixing with a beard that had bits of wood and leaves stuck in it.

His muscles glistened, wet as if he’d just swum a great distance. To his side, he carried a massive Shardblade, point down, sticking about a finger’s width into the stone, his hand on the hilt. The Blade reflected torchlight; it was long, narrow, and straight, shaped like an enormous spike.

“Welcome, lost one,” Wit whispered.

In reality, Wedge Greatsword:

Spoiler

Long, Straight, Narrow - could easily be described as a Wedge or a Spike Shape.

Hope that helps

Edited April 16, 2025 by Treamayne
SPAG

[SpartanBrigade He/Him]

1 hour ago, Treamayne said:

It may not be a discrepancy, it may be the PoV of the person (Hoid perceived a spike shape, Szeth a Wedge (because that was what he had been taught and seen depicted in Shin artwork). 

Consider mentioning it in WaT Typos and Peter will clarify if it was a mistake or intentional. 

 

That was the sword that Taln showed up with in the Warcamps. That sword was bonded by Dalinar, then used to discredit Amaram and unbonded in Urithiru when he became a Bondsmith. @Hoids Imaginary Friend is referencing the WaT Scene where we find out it had been the Shin who stole it from Kholinar (or an agent who then delivered to the Shin) before Taln moved to the Shattered Plains. WaT Ch 40:

  Hide contents

“I was told you’d come sooner. It’s been months of waiting.”

Months? How did they know?

She raised her hands before her and summoned a Shardblade. Unornamented, shaped like a long wedge. A brutal weapon, lacking the grace of its fellows, but somehow also more honest. A weapon that he’d seen depicted in art many times.

Talmut’s Honorblade.

“You had no leave to reclaim that,” Szeth said, summoning his own Blade. “Talmut should have his weapon.”

You don’t need that! Nightblood said from his back. I’m better than a dumb Shardblade made from a dumb spren. Use me!

“Talmut broke,” the woman said. “He brought the Desolation. His Blade is better held by the worthy.”

For comparison, WoK Epilogue:

  Hide contents

Outside the gates, standing on the dark stone roadway, was a solitary man with dark skin. His hair was long and matted, his clothing nothing more than a ragged, sacklike length of cloth wrapping his waist. He stood with head bowed, wet, ratty hair hanging down over his face and mixing with a beard that had bits of wood and leaves stuck in it.

His muscles glistened, wet as if he’d just swum a great distance. To his side, he carried a massive Shardblade, point down, sticking about a finger’s width into the stone, his hand on the hilt. The Blade reflected torchlight; it was long, narrow, and straight, shaped like an enormous spike.

“Welcome, lost one,” Wit whispered.

In reality, Wedge Greatsword:

  Hide contents

Long, Straight, Narrow - could easily be described as a Wedge or a Spike Shape.

Hope that helps

Ah got it ty

[CognitiveShadow he/him]

1 hour ago, Treamayne said:

It may not be a discrepancy, it may be the PoV of the person

I thought Brandon confirmed it was an intentional thing though?

Quote

Questioner

Why didn't Dalinar get the powers of a Stoneward when he bonded Taln's [Honorblade]?

Brandon Sanderson

Some readers have already figured this out, so I don't think I'm engaging in too large a spoiler to dig into this one here.

There are several oddities going on here. The most important one relevant to this question is the Blade in question. If you compare the descriptions of the sword described in the epilogue of The Way of Kings to the one that traveled with the madman (allegedly Taln, the Herald) to the Shattered Plains, you'll find they are different.

The one that the characters obtained in Words of Radiance is NOT an Honorblade. It's an ordinary Shardblade (as ordinary as one of those can be called.) I'm not going to say specifically what happened to the Blade Taln arrived with at Kholinar, but I will say that it IS a different weapon from the one in Words of Radiance.

The other issue here is the somewhat lesser question of whether this character is actually Taln, the Herald, or not. Some characters in-world don't believe that it is, though his viewpoint in Words of Radiance strongly implies otherwise. This isn't specifically relevant to the conversation for reasons I'll talk about below--but it is tangentially related. Because in the cosmere, Intent is important to many of the types of magic. It's theoretically possible to hold an Honorblade and not realize what its powers are, and therefore be unable to access them.

As an aside, this character was actually the primary protagonist of the version of The Way of Kings I wrote in 2002. A man who woke up, with lingering memories of madness, and claimed to be a Herald when nobody believed him--as he couldn't manifest any powers, seemed to have lost his sword, and lore said the Heralds weren't coming back anyway.

When I wrote the new version of The Way of Kings in 2009 or so, one goal was to focus the storyline. I'd included so many characters in the 2002 version that none of them progressed very far in their arcs, creating a strong setting and interesting characters--but a bad book. During the new version, I decided that this character would be moved to the later books, and I'd explore him there.

In the 2002 version, the text was very dodgy on whether or not Taln was a Herald. Confronting the fact that he might be crazy was a major arc and theme of the book--however, as I've worked on the new version, I've realized that it would be dangerous to be too vague on this. Stringing people along with the question for a book or two is one thing, waiting until book six or eight to do a character's arc, and leaving the question of whether they're a Herald or not all that time, seemed unfair.

So the text is going to be making manifest fairly quickly who this person is. You'll have confirmations long before we dig into his viewpoint in the later books.

So, a recap:

1) The swords WERE swapped somehow.

2) Someone could hold an Honorblade and not realize they had access to powers.

3) This character may or may not actually be a Herald--but the text is going to make the answer clear, and I'm not trying to trick you.

FAQFriday 2017 (May 19, 2017)

 

[Treamayne]

On 4/16/2025 at 10:42 AM, CognitiveShadow said:

I thought Brandon confirmed it was an intentional thing though?

 

Again, that WoB is referencing the Swap of Taln's Honorblade at Kholinar (or in transit before reaching the Warcamps).

The question was about the two different descriptions of the Actual Honorblade (extracts above) -

1. In WoK Epilogue when Taln still had his blade and
2. In Shinovar when Szeth faced the Honorbearer that was now using Taln's Blade. 

Hope that helps

Edited June 6, 2025 by Treamayne
SPAG

[Jult]

A fun tangential note, we'll find out a bit more about the blades being swapped and the Honorblade being returned to Shinovar soon-ish. The "Stonewalkers" adventure book is planned to be released alongside the official rules for the Cosmere RPG. It's "A level 1-7 adventure sending characters on a journey to Shinovar to decide the fate of Taln's Honorblade."

The cover art for this book depicts what I believe is Taln holding his Honorblade. 

I could see it being described as both a wedge and a spike. It's a very long and thin triangle:

Edited May 2, 2025 by Jult
Added image

[CognitiveShadow he/him]

2 hours ago, Treamayne said:

Again, that WoB is referencing the Swap of Taln's Honorblade at Kholinar (or in transit before reaching the Warcamps).

The question was about the two different descriptions of the Actual Honorblade (extracts above) -

1. In WoK Epilogue when Talk still had his blade and
2. In Shinovar when Szeth faced the Honorbearer that was now using Taln's Blade. 

Hope that helps

Ah, yep - gotcha, that makes sense!

[Master Silver]

Is there a reason why Talin didn't fight with his blade in WaT?

[SpartanBrigade He/Him]

6 hours ago, Master Silver said:

Is there a reason why Talin didn't fight with his blade in WaT?

He didn’t have it. It was down in Shinovar, having been stolen and delivered to Rit-Daughter-Clutio, and we see it during Kaladin and Szeth’s quest. 

Edited April 30, 2025 by SpartanBrigade

[Treamayne]

1 hour ago, SpartanBrigade said:

having been stolen by Rit-Daughter-Clutio, and we see it during Kaladin and Szeth’s quest.

Technically, we don't know who stole it, only that she ended up Bearing it by the time of WaT.

[SpartanBrigade He/Him]

1 hour ago, Treamayne said:

Technically, we don't know who stole it, only that she ended up Bearing it by the time of WaT.

Ah true, I fixed it

[Through The Living Ash he/him]

This is also official artwork showing Taln's Honorblade: 

 

[Master Silver]

On 4/29/2025 at 6:17 PM, SpartanBrigade said:

He didn’t have it. It was down in Shinovar, having been stolen and delivered to Rit-Daughter-Clutio, and we see it during Kaladin and Szeth’s quest. 

that doesn't make sense though. Tal never broke his oaths or his bond. He should just be able to summon it. 

[Nitpicking]

The Honorblades aren't spren-Shardblades. They can't be summoned quite the same way (or so I interpret).

[Master Silver]

I know what you mean by them not being Spren shards, but they are bits of Honor. And we still know very little about the Honor blade/ Oathpact bond. It does seem like the other Heralds had to retrieve their blades from Shinovar, but that was after breaking the Oathpact (which wouldn't apply to Tal). Also at the end of the book they seemed to magic themselves and their blades there.

[Through The Living Ash he/him]

On 5/10/2025 at 9:32 AM, Master Silver said:

I know what you mean by them not being Spren shards, but they are bits of Honor. And we still know very little about the Honor blade/ Oathpact bond. It does seem like the other Heralds had to retrieve their blades from Shinovar, but that was after breaking the Oathpact (which wouldn't apply to Tal). Also at the end of the book they seemed to magic themselves and their blades there.

The Honorblades were already there. The Heralds didn't go themselves; Kaladin describes seeing them as "ghostly figure," implying it was an aspect of the Heralds but not the Heralds themselves. 

[Geoffray]

On 4/30/2025 at 2:55 AM, Treamayne said:

Technically, we don't know who stole it, only that she ended up Bearing it by the time of WaT.

It's "us" if you play the first scenario play of the Cosmere RPG !