LockDown Ammo he/him Posted January 31, 2025 Posted January 31, 2025 So this is due to the incident that happened in Chapter 8 of WaT: Quote Shallan screamed, struggling as the Lashing carried her away from him. No. No. No! Shallan … Shallan had been Lashed by Drehy. Be. Drehy. She sucked up the Stormlight Lashing her in place. Then, with nothing holding her up, she dropped to the beads after Adolin. So she removed a Lashing. Correct me if I am wrong but the only person who can remove a lashing is the one who applied it in the first place. So I imagine this has to be as the Identity of the Windrunner is linked to Investiture, so no one else can suck it back up. Shallan thinks "Be. Drehy." but even if she adapts the persona she is not copying the Spiritual Identity so it should be impossible for her to dismiss it. So how is she manipulating Identity as this not something that you can fool by just looking like Drehy. Is it due to her double bond? She can access Fortune because of it so maybe manipulating Identity is also because of it. It was also never brought up by Shallan again for the entire book. Like she did not even think about it... I mean I should not be surprised as she is extremely skilled at hiding from her own mind and is basically what she has been doing the entire series. I also wonder if the Identity manipulation thing is true, does that help with her having multiple personas? Like do Veil and Radiant have an Identity signature different from Shallan? And since Veil has now merged back does that no longer exist? Also can she manipulate only her own Identity or other's also? That would actually be too overpowered I think. She is overpowered anyways. Specially with making the things she imagines now real anyways. That is just Lightweaving combined with Soulcasting right?
Knuti Posted January 31, 2025 Posted January 31, 2025 I think, this is not brought up by her, because she herself does not understand it. And let us not forget, it was an extreme situation followed by other extreme situations. I think her repressing days are largely over now after reintegration of Veil. But it could be argued that having personas gave her the hint to simply try. I thing generally there are two sources of her unique extra capabllieties: the double bound as Kelek stated and the fact that she is the daughter of a cognitive shadow, something Kelek did not know. And it stands to reason, that the demise of Tanavast is another factor making things possible, because there is no longer any shardic oversight concerning forbidden powers. These things were discussed already after the the publishing of the preview chapter. Two things I remember: She should be able to retrieve Breaths of other persons once she learns the mechanics of Breaths and she has to know the person whose identity she adopts. Btw her personas could come handy in coming situations. For example consider travelling the Retribution lands. She could pray each midnight for warlight, but Intention counts, it is not so easy as it sounds. A persona convinced to be a Retribution disciple shoud do the trick though. 1
LockDown Ammo he/him Posted February 4, 2025 Author Posted February 4, 2025 On 1/31/2025 at 11:16 PM, Knuti said: I think her repressing days are largely over now after reintegration of Veil. I think so too. Thats why I was annoyed when I thought that they brought Formless back. It was good to know that it wasn't the case. On 1/31/2025 at 11:16 PM, Knuti said: And it stands to reason, that the demise of Tanavast is another factor making things possible, because there is no longer any shardic oversight concerning forbidden powers. I think the Substantiation is due to that. While her accessing Fortune is due to double bond. So similarly I think her manipulating Identity is also due to double bond. On 1/31/2025 at 11:16 PM, Knuti said: She could pray each midnight for warlight, but Intention counts, it is not so easy as it sounds. A persona convinced to be a Retribution disciple shoud do the trick though. The persona with fake Identity should be enough and I don't think you need to swear fealty to him to show Intent. You just need to have the Intent to get Warlight which Shallan and her persona will have as they do want it. She just needs Retribution to believe that she is not of the "enemy" which she can fake. But I also think it's of no use currently as she is stuck in Shadesmar and I don't think it works there.
therunner he/him Posted February 4, 2025 Posted February 4, 2025 (edited) I'll note that she likely could do it only because: Is daugther of Herald (and as Returned show, Cognitive entities and their offspring have more malleable Identities) Already has experience with altering her Identity (her Alters) Has touched Drehy's Cognitive Representation in RoW I think, giving her very precise knowledge of what it is to be Drehy All in all, she likely would find it difficult to do on command, unless she has previously experienced someones' Identity. Edited February 4, 2025 by therunner 1
Dofurion Posted February 4, 2025 Posted February 4, 2025 As a slight side note, this is not the first time Shallan has done this, in Oathbringer: Quote Living souls bobbed around, a swarm of them entering the Oathgate control chamber. One brushed Shallan - Drehy the bridgeman. For a brief moment she felt what it was like to be him, worried for Kaladin, panicked that nobody was in charge, that he would have to take command. He wasn't a commander - you couldn't be a rebel if you were in charge. He liked being told what to do. That way he could find a method to do it with style." 3
LockDown Ammo he/him Posted February 6, 2025 Author Posted February 6, 2025 On 2/4/2025 at 11:26 PM, Dofurion said: As a slight side note, this is not the first time Shallan has done this, in Oathbringer: That is different I think. Like pretty sure it does not have to be a Lightweaver. If you are touching someone's soul directly from this side you will get brief flashes. At that time Drehy was in Shadesmar though.
Treamayne Posted February 6, 2025 Posted February 6, 2025 On 2/4/2025 at 12:56 PM, Dofurion said: As a slight side note, this is not the first time Shallan has done this, in Oathbringer: Spoiler Living souls bobbed around, a swarm of them entering the Oathgate control chamber. One brushed Shallan - Drehy the bridgeman. For a brief moment she felt what it was like to be him, worried for Kaladin, panicked that nobody was in charge, that he would have to take command. He wasn't a commander - you couldn't be a rebel if you were in charge. He liked being told what to do. That way he could find a method to do it with style." 7 hours ago, LockDown Ammo said: That is different I think. Like pretty sure it does not have to be a Lightweaver. If you are touching someone's soul directly from this side you will get brief flashes. At that time Drehy was in Shadesmar though. I think @Dofurion's point was that she had already touched his Soul once, so that may have made what she did possible because she already had unique insight into his soul. 1
LockDown Ammo he/him Posted February 6, 2025 Author Posted February 6, 2025 6 hours ago, Treamayne said: I think @Dofurion's point was that she had already touched his Soul once, so that may have made what she did possible because she already had unique insight into his soul. That is a good point. That does also limit her powers from becoming a little too overpowered. She can't just do it to steal anyone's Identity. On 2/4/2025 at 4:28 PM, therunner said: Is daugther of Herald (and as Returned show, Cognitive entities and their offspring have more malleable Identities) This is an excellent point. I think this just might be the reason why she can do it.
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