Resonances as a Soft Magic

[Trusk'our he/him]

I've kind of been hoping for a while that Sanderson would eventually canonize a hard system for determining how a Resonance would manifest, allowing us to accurately predict all Twinborn (and maybe some extra special artificial Metalblessed) Resonances. 

Unfortunately, I get the vibe from his most recent WoB on the matter that he views Resonances as being closer to a type of soft magic, where he can do "fun things", but without real predictability. 

Spoiler

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/540-dragonsteel-nexus-2024/#e16742

msyverw

So we see a lot in the cosmere about how different magic systems interact and have these resonances. Is it possible for magic systems from different planets, such as Surgebinding and Allomancy or Feruchemy, to have the same kind of resonances?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, yeah, that's totally possible. The purpose of these resonances is to, number one: give me some fun things I can do. But really, number two: it's just like if you're imagining these things, like... I don't know, something on the electromagnetic spectrum, right? When they hit they're gonna interfere and/or they're going to change one another. And I think the magic systems are doing things like that, and I like to play with that idea. So the answer is yes.

I'm probably taking this too seriously and will still probably try to make Resonance predictions in the future, but I guess I'm just a little tired of waiting for answers on some of these things.

Anyone care to throw in a second opinion?

[Treamayne]

1 hour ago, Trusk'our said:

I've kind of been hoping for a while that Sanderson would eventually canonize a hard system for determining how a Resonance would manifest, allowing us to accurately predict all Twinborn (and maybe some extra special artificial Metalblessed) Resonances. 

Unfortunately, I get the vibe from his most recent WoB on the matter that he views Resonances as being closer to a type of soft magic, where he can do "fun things", but without real predictability. 

  Hide contents

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/540-dragonsteel-nexus-2024/#e16742

msyverw

So we see a lot in the cosmere about how different magic systems interact and have these resonances. Is it possible for magic systems from different planets, such as Surgebinding and Allomancy or Feruchemy, to have the same kind of resonances?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, yeah, that's totally possible. The purpose of these resonances is to, number one: give me some fun things I can do. But really, number two: it's just like if you're imagining these things, like... I don't know, something on the electromagnetic spectrum, right? When they hit they're gonna interfere and/or they're going to change one another. And I think the magic systems are doing things like that, and I like to play with that idea. So the answer is yes.

I'm probably taking this too seriously and will still probably try to make Resonance predictions in the future, but I guess I'm just a little tired of waiting for answers on some of these things.

Anyone care to throw in a second opinion?

Well, my first question would be: Do you mean actual soft-magic, or soft-for-Sanderson magic?

I can agree with the latter - what little we know of resonances is definitely softer than any Cosmere magic we have seen so far.
If the former, then I doubt it's a true soft-magic in that I am sure Brandon has rules and guidelines for himself which is one reason why so little has been revealed so far (until his planned Era 3 reveals)

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

The "perks" ("secondary effect born with interaction between powers") also has not a 100% sure name, but the main one at the moment is resonances....We will discovered a lot of the in the third trilogy where the Scientific Method would be applied to the magic.

Lucca Comics and Games Festival (Oct. 28, 2016)

That said, we have two solid examples from which to extrapolate - and each gives a "different" method for a Resonance to occur based on constructive and/or destructive interference models.

1. Windrunners have more squires - this Resonance indicates that, sometimes, a resonance is based upon Perception. Why would Gravitation+Adhesion lead to this resonance? It would not. However, Perception of "Windrunning" and that order of Knight Radiant absolutely leads to the perception of "Military organization - which, by necessity, requires a larger number of lower-ranked people from which new members are promoted."
   • Here, perception of the combination influences expression of the combination
2. Lightweavers influence others through their perception/intent - Lightweaving: influencing others throughthe surge of Illumination combines with Soulcasting: changing something through the Surge of Transformation. Together, they seem to unconsciously influence those around them with their perception (Shallan influencing Kaladinin the Chasms) or with their desire to incite change (Shallan influencing Vathah's team in WoR). Basically an uncontrolled expression of transformation through illumination. (Brandon has also cited Mnemonic abilities, but specifically calls out that is "not all lightweavers" - and RoW shows it to be an uncommon talent in the Unseen Court).
   • Here, perception of the parts, influeces the expression of the sum of the parts

WoBs

Spoiler

Quote

Questioner

So in The Stormlight Archive, they have the two Surges, and they have a third power effect, right?

Brandon Sanderson

They have kind of effects on each other, like a reverberation. Yes. I wouldn’t call it expressly a third power, I’d call it interactions.

Questioner

So, it seems like...you don’t have to confirm anything, but it seems like Kaladin is able to transfer his powers to his men following him…

Brandon Sanderson

The Windrunners are known for having lots of squires.

Questioner

That's the one I thought was really compelling. And the Skybreakers seem like they’re really good at hunting people down.

Brandon Sanderson

I’m not going to answer any of those! But good questions!

Calamity Austin signing (Feb. 25, 2016)

Quote

Questioner

In Stormlight, with Kaladin and his brother Tien, is there a connection or a reason why, whenever his brother finds a rock, that keeps coming up several times?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. So, there's a couple themes going on here. One is just the subtle theme that Tien tends to find beauty in things that Kaladin finds dull. That's, of course, kind of the metaphor. But Tien also was a budding Lightweaver, and he saw color and light a little bit differently than other people did. And he has the same general effect that you'll see Shallan having on people, which is how the Lightweaver views you influences a little bit more how your mood is, and things like that... And there is a magical element to that, as well. There's both a metaphoric reason and an in-world reason.

The Great American Read: Other Worlds with Brandon Sanderson (Oct. 25, 2018)

 

Just my nickel-thoughts

Edited January 15, 2025 by Treamayne
SPAG

[Green Hoodie Mistborn he/him]

I don't see them as "soft magic" so much as each combination of different powers yield different resonances. And there are so many different ones that he just hasn't gotten around to defining each and every one yet. And when he says they're areas of "fun" for him, that he likes coming up with the resonance when those power combinations come up.

I don't think there is a hard and fast rule he could ever define for how the powers interact really. I don't know if that by definition makes it soft or not. I guess that depends on perspective. 

It would be neat to be able to guess or figure out how the twinborn resonances work for all the combos but I just don't see how he could ever define it in a meaningful way

Maybe there will be something in the coming RPG related to it though? 

Edited January 15, 2025 by Green Hoodie Mistborn

[Trusk'our he/him]

9 hours ago, Treamayne said:

Well, my first question would be: Do you mean actual soft-magic, or soft-for-Sanderson magic?

I can agree with the latter - what little we know of resonances is definitely softer than any Cosmere magic we have seen so far.
If the former, then I doubt it's a true soft-magic in that I am sure Brandon has rules and guidelines for himself which is one reason why so little has been revealed so far (until his planned Era 3 reveals)

  Reveal hidden contents

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

The "perks" ("secondary effect born with interaction between powers") also has not a 100% sure name, but the main one at the moment is resonances....We will discovered a lot of the in the third trilogy where the Scientific Method would be applied to the magic.

Lucca Comics and Games Festival (Oct. 28, 2016)

That said, we have two solid examples from which to extrapolate - and each gives a "different" method for a Resonance to occur based on constructive and/or destructive interference models.

1. Windrunners have more squires - this Resonance indicates that, sometimes, a resonance is based upon Perception. Why would Gravitation+Adhesion lead to this resonance? It would not. However, Perception of "Windrunning" and that order of Knight Radiant absolutely leads to the perception of "Military organization - which, by necessity, requires a larger number of lower-ranked people from which new members are promoted."
   • Here, perception of the combination influences expression of the combination
2. Lightweavers influence others through their perception/intent - Lightweaving: influencing others throughthe surge of Illumination combines with Soulcasting: changing something through the Surge of Transformation. Together, they seem to unconsciously influence those around them with their perception (Shallan influencing Kaladinin the Chasms) or with their desire to incite change (Shallan influencing Vathah's team in WoR). Basically an uncontrolled expression of transformation through illumination. (Brandon has also cited Mnemonic abilities, but specifically calls out that is "not all lightweavers" - and RoW shows it to be an uncommon talent in the Unseen Court).
   • Here, perception of the parts, influeces the expression of the sum of the parts

WoBs

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Just my nickel-thoughts

Good points as always. 

I'd say soft for a Sanderson magic. I do think each Resonance will likely have some kind of hard ability, but actually predicting them will be basically impossible. 

It isn't inherently bad, as this gives some wiggle room for the Investiture, especially in Mistborn where most abilities are so hardwritten you can accurately plot them in advance. 

Buuuuut this does mean that if we want to create Twinborn for the upcoming RPG (or just for fun) we can't actually grasp all that they can do. Not canonically, at least, which does bother me somewhat because I'm unusually a stickler for staying true to the source material. 

7 hours ago, Green Hoodie Mistborn said:

I don't see them as "soft magic" so much as each combination of different powers yield different resonances. And there are so many different ones that he just hasn't gotten around to defining each and every one yet. And when he says they're areas of "fun" for him, that he likes coming up with the resonance when those power combinations come up.

I don't think there is a hard and fast rule he could ever define for how the powers interact really. I don't know if that by definition makes it soft or not. I guess that depends on perspective. 

It would be neat to be able to guess or figure out how the twinborn resonances work for all the combos but I just don't see how he could ever define it in a meaningful way

Maybe there will be something in the coming RPG related to it though? 

It would be nice to get some examples in the RPG, especially since they could give us a way to determine what is viable for being a Resonance purely on its "balance"- how powerful its effects should be and what thematic elements we should pursue when looking at Twinborn or Radiants. 

[Argenti he/him]

1 hour ago, Trusk'our said:

Buuuuut this does mean that if we want to create Twinborn for the upcoming RPG (or just for fun) we can't actually grasp all that they can do. Not canonically, at least, which does bother me somewhat because I'm unusually a stickler for staying true to the source material. 

8 hours ago, Green Hoodie Mistborn said:

Well, that assumes he won't just tell us.

[Trusk'our he/him]

34 minutes ago, Argenti said:

Well, that assumes he won't just tell us.

It does, yes.

However, I'm thinking it's a safe bet he won't go out of his way to tell us 256 different Twinborn Resonances. Most people aren't insane enough to try.

[Treamayne]

15 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

I'm thinking it's a safe bet he won't go out of his way to tell us 256 different Twinborn Resonances. Most people aren't insane enough to try.

He probably will tell us. . . 

After Era 4 (maybe)

Spoiler

Quote

Questioner

If you die, how do we find everything out?

Brandon Sanderson

If I die... *laughter* This is totally legit, considering my history. So, that's why we have Peter and that's why we have Karen, my continuity editor. She goes through and enters everything into our personal wiki. I talk a lot of things through with Peter and Isaac and if I've gotten far enough into a series that we feel it's right to have someone finish it we will have someone finish it. If I haven't, or if I die tomorrow, we aren't going to have them finish 8 books, we'll just release my notes. And that will be their instructions.

Shadows of Self release party (Oct. 5, 2015)

I thought there was a WoB about him planning to release his internal wiki after he completes the cosmere, but I am still looking for that one again. . . 

 

[Trusk'our he/him]

55 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

He probably will tell us. . . 

After Era 4 (maybe)

  Reveal hidden contents

I thought there was a WoB about him planning to release his internal wiki after he completes the cosmere, but I am still looking for that one again. . . 

 

I won't completely wave away such a possibility, I just don't imagine it being something he'd want to do. He seems far more focused on making the stories themselves to work on canonizing all Resonances. 

He might just be too busy with his 7th secret novel, subconsciously writing it up in his brain where even he isn't aware of its existence yet.

Edited January 15, 2025 by Trusk'our

[Green Hoodie Mistborn he/him]

4 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

I won't completely wave away such a possibility, I just don't imagine it being something he'd want to do. He seems far more focused on making the stories themselves to work on canonizing all Resonances. 

He might just be too busy with his 7th secret novel, subconsciously writing it up in his brain where even he isn't aware of its existence yet.

It does seem like a task that he'd give to a team member to work on at some point though. Give them a pile of thoughts/notes or point them to an internal wiki link to start from, even if it's related to the RPG or something and then he'd review it to make sure it jives with his own thoughts. 

I can see it happening eventually, especially for something like Twinborns and maybe the Surges since they are both "somewhat" limited

What probably won't happen is "what is the Resonance between 1000 Breaths and Division" or "Rosharan Lightweaving and Sandmastery"

Like... those are the ones we'll probably never ever get because the # of combinations and permutations are just TOO vast. 

....unless they built an internal Dragonsteel LLM and fed it some parameters and then just vetted the output. Then... maybe, but I'm not going to hold my breath for that. 

Edited January 15, 2025 by Green Hoodie Mistborn

[Duxredux he/him]

I figure it boils down to Brandon canonizes all magics only when he's sure it will perform the function he needs it to for the story - and sometimes he can almost hardwire it into the core of a character. So long as a Resonance can reasonably fit with the base powers, he has given us sufficient ground knowledge and foreshadowing that it probably will only feel slightly contrived while giving him the flexibility he needs.

Take Windrunners having more squires: taking care of others, building up a team to support each other, and welcoming in anyone who needs protection is basically who Kaladin is. It's difficult to imagine Kaladin without that, even though he was doing that long before he swore the Oaths. That active philosophy brings people together and enables them within the internal support structure in IRL too, Brandon just also made it magic. It's a chicken & egg thing, or as Syl puts it, does the spren make the wind or does the wind bring the spren regarding whether Kaladin's personality is what enabled him to achieve Radiance or if Syl helped shape him before the Ideals.

Shallan had been painting a false, but better home her whole adolescent life and in small ways making it a reality. Her Resonance is also interwoven through her entire life and the lies of a perfectly normal and functioning home, the "fake it 'till you make it" attitude we see with Veil also can be seen IRL.

I still think that Wayne's Resonance is his seemingly supernatural luck and that's baked in down to his lucky hat - and now we see him making a fortune in investments and making the first team sport league. Separating Wayne from the seat-of-the-pants mad improvisation is also basically impossible.

I suspect that Resonances sometimes are born as Brandon gives a new character a powerset and then tries to imagine how their life would be using those powers, how it would change the way they perceive and interact with the world, maybe think about characteristics of exceptional people who do similar things, and then build the character, the Resonance, and their role in the plot either simultaneously or as a kind of balancing act to make sure that it works for the story as a whole.

I don't think Resonances will ever be completely and conclusively canonized because I think they have to do with how someone with those specific set of powers comes to live differently and see opportunities and the world differently, and it's not just a matter of sitting down with a spreadsheet and going down the line with some notes. He'll probably use the same attitude as he has with the various RPGs, for each DM to make it their own and to come up with cool ideas (even though it totally doesn't future-proof campaigns from later canon).