Retribution's Name

[Omniforce he/him]

Why did everyone immediately know what Taravangian's new Shard name was? Sazed in his ascendence didn't immediately know what his Shard name, or if he did it wasn't shown. Even if Taravangian took the time to think of a new name, why did Dalinar and Ishar immediately know it? I get that some people, namely the singers, can sense the rhythms, so they'd be aware of such a change at least. The name though confuses me, cause the normal combo of Honor and Odium's rhythms is interpreted by them as the Rhythm of War, not Retribution. Anyone have any ideas on this, cause it just feels so poorly handled to me.

[Raven Wilder]

'Cause Ishar and Dalinar have that weirdo Bondsmith Connecting stuff going on. Once Taravangian settled on the name Retribution, those two were presumably still Connected enough to Honor to sense the change.

[Nitpicking]

The Sibling also knew what was going on instantly. It wasn't very concealed.

[JohnnyKaizen he/him]

Because Taravangian is the biggest drama queen in the Cosmere and was probably broadcasting that re-branding out an every channel he had access to. It's a wonder he didn't manifest speakers over the head of every sapient being on Roshar to blast "I AM RETRIBUTION" on a loop. 

 

But also, what's already been said...Connection let them know what was happening, but even if it didn't, Taravangian would have beamed it into everyone's heads. He'll also probably invent Cosmere crossfit soon, so that he can have something else to tell everyone else about in addition to the fact that he's Retribution now.

[QuantumAce]

1 hour ago, JohnnyKaizen said:

Because Taravangian is the biggest drama queen in the Cosmere and was probably broadcasting that re-branding out an every channel he had access to. It's a wonder he didn't manifest speakers over the head of every sapient being on Roshar to blast "I AM RETRIBUTION" on a loop. 

I was going with the handwavy Bondsmith Connection thing, but I like this better. 

[Nitpicking]

2 hours ago, QuantumAce said:

I was going with the handwavy Bondsmith Connection thing, but I like this better. 

If you think about it, it wasn't that handwavy. The people who knew had strong Connections to Honor. Dalinar was a Sliver of Honor, and the Sibling is his child. They therefore had a strong Connection to Retribution.

[alder24]

23 hours ago, JohnnyKaizen said:

Because Taravangian is the biggest drama queen in the Cosmere and was probably broadcasting that re-branding out an every channel he had access to. It's a wonder he didn't manifest speakers over the head of every sapient being on Roshar to blast "I AM RETRIBUTION" on a loop. 

Kind of.

Rhythms and Tones of Roshar. Singers and Fused can hear them, there is a slight change in Tones when a new Vessel Ascends, there would be a massive change in Rhythms when two Shards combine. Hearing Rhythms allows one to understand their meaning. Humans are not only capable of learning to hear Rhythms (Navani), it was also shown by the imprisonment of Mishram that drastic changes of Rhythms can be heard by everybody - Dalinar and Navani felt Rhythms stopping for 3 seconds when Mishram was captured. I believe that's how everybody knows Retribution's name - he literally broadcasted it across the whole Cosmere, but he didn't do it intentionally, it was just a result of merging two Shards together that was unavoidable. RoW ch 76:

Quote

Raboniel trembled as she picked the gemstone out of its place, then held it up, humming a reverential rhythm. “They did not annihilate one another, as I assumed. Indeed, as part of me hoped. You were right, Navani. Remarkably, I have been proven wrong.” She turned the gemstone in her fingers. “I can name this rhythm: the Rhythm of War. Odium and Honor mixed together. I had not known it before today, but I recognize its name; I know this as surely as I know my own. Each rhythm carries with it an understanding of its meaning.”

WaT ch 20:

Quote

It is true, the Stormfather said. Odium is no longer Rayse.
“You can tell?” Dalinar whispered, so Navani could hear too. “So easily?”
Yes. The tone has changed, only noticeable when I looked.
You … are right, the Sibling said. I feel it. So subtle …
I cannot identify the new Vessel, the Stormfather said. Take care. And Rayse … Rayse is gone, after all this time.

WaT ch 87:

Quote

Dalinar sent himself away, out of the body of the Windrunner, to rejoin Navani. She took him in her arms, burying her face in his chest, trembling as they listened to the terrified shrieks of a spren betrayed.
In that instant, something ripped within the world itself. Roshar’s rhythms and tones froze. Like a heart suddenly stopped. Three terrible seconds.

[Omniforce he/him]

At this point I'd have to agree to chalk it up to Connection shenanigans. I don't like it though. It feels like the hardness of the magic system is getting softer by the book. Realistically I know that it's just the deeper parts of the magic systems being revealed slowly, and that hopefully once we have a more complete picture it will make some more logical sense. I really feel like I wouldn't have this complaint if Brandon had just written another paragraph detailing Taravangian actually thinking about what his new Shard name should be, and then all the people who had that strong connection to honor just hearing or sense his choice of name.

I guess I'm less confused at them knowing than how it was conveyed by the writing.

[The Stick]

15 hours ago, alder24 said:

Kind of.

Rhythms and Tones of Roshar. Singers and Fused can hear them, there is a slight change in Tones when a new Vessel Ascends, there would be a massive change in Rhythms when two Shards combine. Hearing Rhythms allows one to understand their meaning. Humans are not only capable of learning to hear Rhythms (Navani), it was also shown by the imprisonment of Mishram that drastic changes of Rhythms can be heard by everybody - Dalinar and Navani felt Rhythms stopping for 3 seconds when Mishram was captured. I believe that's how everybody knows Retribution's name - he literally broadcasted it across the whole Cosmere, but he didn't do it intentionally, it was just a result of merging two Shards together that was unavoidable. RoW ch 76:

I am looking at it kind of like what happens when two small black holes merge. They spin around each other hundreds of times per second, and warp spacetime in crazy ways. They send out ginormous ripples all through the universe, like waves in spacetime. Then, once they merge things start to quiet down. I kind of view Retribution like this. The incredible power and changes in Rhythm from the merge would ripple across the Cosmere in a ginormous wave.

[JohnnyKaizen he/him]

On 1/3/2025 at 3:15 PM, alder24 said:

Kind of.

Rhythms and Tones of Roshar. Singers and Fused can hear them, there is a slight change in Tones when a new Vessel Ascends, there would be a massive change in Rhythms when two Shards combine. Hearing Rhythms allows one to understand their meaning. Humans are not only capable of learning to hear Rhythms (Navani), it was also shown by the imprisonment of Mishram that drastic changes of Rhythms can be heard by everybody - Dalinar and Navani felt Rhythms stopping for 3 seconds when Mishram was captured. I believe that's how everybody knows Retribution's name - he literally broadcasted it across the whole Cosmere, but he didn't do it intentionally, it was just a result of merging two Shards together that was unavoidable. RoW ch 76:

You are both correct and technically correct, but I will love to hate Taravangian forever and a day, and will gleefully take any opportunity to point out how in love with himself he is. I am still surprised that he didn't have divine trumpets or something on top of the dramatic shift in the Rhythms of Roshar.