Lord Ruler Sylphrena He/Him Posted January 1, 2025 Posted January 1, 2025 I used to think there was a cap of 10 heralds (One for each order) but it seems it can go higher if the number is cosmere significant. Do you think Retribution could make new heralds for a new oathpact to serve as his generals? I know the original could be expanded but that doesn't seem likely. With Retribution Spren creating new Nahel bonds and possibly a new version of void/surgebinding a new oathpact that could represent new and old orders would be interesting. I think Vyre, El, and the Blackthorn are solid candidates for elevation. With Retribution having more power to work with then most shards I don't see why he wouldn't make more champions with it and new Heralds seem more interesting then new unmade in my opinion. Imagine if Retribution's number is something high like 25 and he gets really crazy with it. Also what do you think a new Oathpact could be used for? Invention and Reason seem like dangerous shards in the long run and something that could keep them out of the game could be crucial. 1
Argenti he/him Posted January 2, 2025 Posted January 2, 2025 On 1/1/2025 at 2:38 AM, Lord Ruler Sylphrena said: I used to think there was a cap of 10 heralds (One for each order) but it seems it can go higher if the number is cosmere significant. Do you think Retribution could make new heralds for a new oathpact to serve as his generals? I know the original could be expanded but that doesn't seem likely. With Retribution Spren creating new Nahel bonds and possibly a new version of void/surgebinding a new oathpact that could represent new and old orders would be interesting. I think Vyre, El, and the Blackthorn are solid candidates for elevation. With Retribution having more power to work with then most shards I don't see why he wouldn't make more champions with it and new Heralds seem more interesting then new unmade in my opinion. Imagine if Retribution's number is something high like 25 and he gets really crazy with it. Also what do you think a new Oathpact could be used for? Invention and Reason seem like dangerous shards in the long run and something that could keep them out of the game could be crucial. It would be very difficult to bind another Shard with an oathpact. As the heralds said, the reason it worked is because of their connection to Odium, and then honor. There's not really anyone in roshar with that kind of connection to either Invention or Reason. T-Retro could probably bind Cultivation somehow, there's enough of the people blessed by her running around for it to have "traction." Instead of making more heralds, he could just make more fused! Make some voidbinding types of fused, and voila! 2
Lord Ruler Sylphrena He/Him Posted January 3, 2025 Author Posted January 3, 2025 1 hour ago, Argenti said: It would be very difficult to bind another Shard with an oathpact. As the heralds said, the reason it worked is because of their connection to Odium, and then honor. There's not really anyone in roshar with that kind of connection to either Invention or Reason. T-Retro could probably bind Cultivation somehow, there's enough of the people blessed by her running around for it to have "traction." Instead of making more heralds, he could just make more fused! Make some voidbinding types of fused, and voila! True shards that have more invested champions would be better. Autonomy, Harmony and Endowment would be good candidates for a new oathpact. The reason I think it would be better to have heralds instead of fused is from what we have seen the fused kind of suck and get easily beaten in most fights where the heralds are one man armies. 1
Argenti he/him Posted January 3, 2025 Posted January 3, 2025 21 minutes ago, Lord Ruler Sylphrena said: True shards that have more invested champions would be better. Autonomy, Harmony and Endowment would be good candidates for a new oathpact. The reason I think it would be better to have heralds instead of fused is from what we have seen the fused kind of suck and get easily beaten in most fights where the heralds are one man armies. Well, that's cause they're different scales. Each Herald should be maybe 600x times as investited as a fused?
elihaun Posted January 3, 2025 Posted January 3, 2025 On 1/1/2025 at 2:38 AM, Lord Ruler Sylphrena said: I used to think there was a cap of 10 heralds (One for each order) but it seems it can go higher if the number is cosmere significant. Do you think Retribution could make new heralds for a new oathpact to serve as his generals? I know the original could be expanded but that doesn't seem likely. With Retribution Spren creating new Nahel bonds and possibly a new version of void/surgebinding a new oathpact that could represent new and old orders would be interesting. I think Vyre, El, and the Blackthorn are solid candidates for elevation. With Retribution having more power to work with then most shards I don't see why he wouldn't make more champions with it and new Heralds seem more interesting then new unmade in my opinion. Imagine if Retribution's number is something high like 25 and he gets really crazy with it. Also what do you think a new Oathpact could be used for? Invention and Reason seem like dangerous shards in the long run and something that could keep them out of the game could be crucial. The thing about the 10 heralds, one for each order, is that maybe there is a change happening there. Since Retribution is no longer bound to the deal, the humans are no longer restricted to the oaths as well. we could have unbound surge binding in the next arc. Either that, or there might be 19 orders of Knights (if the 10 orders of KR and 9 orders of fused are now both under retribution)
alder24 Posted January 3, 2025 Posted January 3, 2025 7 hours ago, elihaun said: The thing about the 10 heralds, one for each order, is that maybe there is a change happening there. Since Retribution is no longer bound to the deal, the humans are no longer restricted to the oaths as well. we could have unbound surge binding in the next arc. Either that, or there might be 19 orders of Knights (if the 10 orders of KR and 9 orders of fused are now both under retribution) No. Orders of Knights Radiant were established by Ishar long after Heralds were bound to the Oathpact - they are separate from Oaths made by Honor. It's highly unlikely to create a new order because there are only 10 Surges and there are only 9 kinds of True Spren (plus God Sprens). You would need not only a new spren who embodies a different pairing of Surges, but also you would need to incorporate into the structure of Knights Radiant - which is currently impossible because of how Ishar made the Orders. Creating new Surges is even more difficult as they are a natural manifestation of powers of creation and they are partially based on perception and were also made in such a way by someone or something (related to Dawnshards and the Shards). The reason why there are 10 Heralds is because 10 is the number of power. There are other numbers that could work and those numbers are unrelated to Knights Radiant. WaT ch 64: Quote “Most of you once served him,” Tanavast said. “He granted you his powers. There is a Connection we can exploit, so long as the circle contains enough of you. Strongest would be sixteen or my own number of ten—it cannot be nine. If you speak oaths to me, my power can be channeled and governed by rules to prevent a cataclysm." WaT ch 77: Quote “Five?” Honor said. “No, impossible. Five is a number of weakness. No symmetry, no power. Perhaps four would work. The number of Adonalsium’s four aspects. Or ten, sixteen … one.” Spoiler Questioner Could new Orders eventually be formed? Brandon Sanderson This is plausibly possible but highly, highly unlikely. A lot of things are possible in the Stormlight Archive that are highly unlikely. So I rarely say "no," because I built the magic systems of the cosmere to be able to do a lot of things, 'cause I knew I was going to be writing in a lot of different worlds. Which means that very few things are completely off-limits. But there's a lot of things that are unlikely to happen. Tor Instagram Livestream (Nov. 25, 2020) Spoiler PhoenixKnight777 Each Order of Radiant has some resonance between their Surges, correct? Can you give us some examples of what would happen in a Surgebinder somehow achieved an impossible pairing, such as Division and Illumination or Transformation and Gravitation? Brandon Sanderson I haven't really thought about it. You go ahead and theorize on that, I'm sure you can come up with interesting ones. Totally possible in the cosmere. The structure that is on Roshar prevents it from currently happening, but totally possible. I mean, very plausible. I haven't theorized on those yet, so I'm not going to right now. YouTube Spoiler Stream 4 (June 16, 2022) Spoiler Argent My understanding of the... spren is that they grant powers based on what they understand to be fundamental? Ish? Brandon Sanderson Ish. I wouldn't 100% go with that. I would say these are the fundamental forces-- They aren't as scientific as our fundamental forces, but I would say it's more than just what the spren view and what the humans view in that case. But they are more philosophical than scientific, in cases. Argent Other cognitive beings, could they-- A spren on Earth. Would it grant electromagnetism surge, for example? Brandon Sanderson That, I would say yes. Skyward Chicago signing (Nov. 16, 2018) Spoiler Argent Spren grant control over Surges because Surges are perceived as fundamental powers on Roshar. Would other Cognitive beings grant different powers based on what they perceive to be fundamental? Such as electromagnetism is on Earth? Brandon Sanderson It is plausible, although this was set up in a specific way. Argent By Honor or Adonalsium? Brandon Sanderson RAFO on that. Set up might be the wrong word. There were seeds that caused this to happen the way it did. Argent The Surgebinding thing? Brandon Sanderson Yes, specifically... Those influenced what people perceived as fundamental forces. JordanCon 2018 (April 22, 2018) Spoiler LewsTherinTelescope You've said before that, while the Ten Surges arose due to perception of what things are fundamental forces, there were "seeds" that influenced what people perceived as fundamental. Is knowledge of the Rosharan Shards and Dawnshards the "seed" referenced here? Brandon Sanderson The Shards yes, but I wouldn't say the Dawnshards were involved directly--but the Shards were influenced by the Dawnshards, so... It gets muddy. General Reddit 2021 (March 11, 2021) 1
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