Lift in Book 6

[The Stick]

This thread is for the advancement of theories on what the events of book five will mean for lift going forwards to start of the second arc.

Obviously, her use of Lifelight makes her the singular radiant* who can function during the True Desolation. This is assuming Retribution won't let enlightened surgebinders use his light. This will allow her to use powers outside the towers to fight Retribution's forces.

I think Vasher will train her on elements of awakening using Lifelight, kind of hotwiring the two systems together if he can. I also expect her to acquire some powers from her Aviar. Plus, Vasher may use some awakening tricks to make her new weapons like Night blood or Lifeless style golems. However, I think Vasher drops back into a supporting role by the end of the time jump.

She presumably will try to counsel Gav during the time jump, and he may end up accompanying her on her arc in book six.

Now Cultivation has abandoned the system, I think any control over the boons and curses will start to disintegrate. This will mean Lift could start to physically develop naturally, and she may lose some of her Cultivation based powers. 

At the points of the second arc, she will be about 25. If she has a romance arc, I would say Yanagawn is the big candidate, especially with all that character development this book. The only issue with that is that the Oathgates have broken down, so Azir and Urithiru are not connected.

These are all the things I can think of surrounding Lift, I would encourage theorizing below.

[bmcclure7]

On 12/29/2024 at 9:29 PM, The Stick said:

This thread is for the advancement of theories on what the events of book five will mean for lift going forwards to start of the second arc.

Obviously, her use of Lifelight makes her the singular radiant* who can function during the True Desolation. This is assuming Retribution won't let enlightened surgebinders use his light. This will allow her to use powers outside the towers to fight Retribution's forces.

I think Vasher will train her on elements of awakening using Lifelight, kind of hotwiring the two systems together if he can. I also expect her to acquire some powers from her Aviar. Plus, Vasher may use some awakening tricks to make her new weapons like Night blood or Lifeless style golems. However, I think Vasher drops back into a supporting role by the end of the time jump.

She presumably will try to counsel Gav during the time jump, and he may end up accompanying her on her arc in book six.

Now Cultivation has abandoned the system, I think any control over the boons and curses will start to disintegrate. This will mean Lift could start to physically develop naturally, and she may lose some of her Cultivation based powers. 

At the points of the second arc, she will be about 25. If she has a romance arc, I would say Yanagawn is the big candidate, especially with all that character development this book. The only issue with that is that the Oathgates have broken down, so Azir and Urithiru are not connected.

These are all the things I can think of surrounding Lift, I would encourage theorizing below.

1.I see no reason why cultivation abandoning the system or change anything as far as the boons and curses go 

2.During the time I suspect she will served as a scout and spy

3. She probably will have her own love interest by book 6 (gift maybe or Gavinor) 

4. As for her arc and book 6 I think we’ll be about motherhood so much about her past trauma seems revolved around her mother so there has to be a way to bring that all up to the surface having her become a mother herself or face. The possibility of becoming a mother seems to be the best way to do that.

[Isilel]

On 12/30/2024 at 4:29 AM, The Stick said:

Obviously, her use of Lifelight makes her the singular radiant* who can function during the True Desolation.

 

She can fill gems for others to use outside Urithiru. In RoW, after Mraize had given Lift to Raboniel, Navani received a gem filled with Lifelight for her experiments.

@bmcclure7:

Nah, I am pretty sure that Shallan will have the theme of motherhood covered. And Vasher's training has got to lead in some significant direction, it would be a waste otherwise.

 

[bmcclure7]

6 hours ago, Isilel said:

 

She can fill gems for others to use outside Urithiru. In RoW, after Mraize had given Lift to Raboniel, Navani received a gem filled with Lifelight for her experiments.

@bmcclure7:

Nah, I am pretty sure that Shallan will have the theme of motherhood covered. And Vasher's training has got to lead in some significant direction, it would be a waste otherwise.

 

Good point. I’m not sure where else she could take her story though she’d be too old to worry about growing up as she would be in her early 30s not just a not kid anymore, but also no longer a young woman either.

I thought the radiance can only use storm light and proper light not life light 

[Isilel]

5 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said:

I thought the radiance can only use storm light and proper light not life light 

 

In Tanavast's PoV we learned that all Radiant spren, except for the Stormfather had some Cultivation in them. Even honorspren. All Radiants should be able to use Lifelight, though we don't really know how volatile it is at this time. I assume that in the past the Nightwatcher used to supply  Radiants with it and until she is found and bonded Lift is going to jump in for her. And/or until the scholars in Urithiru learn to split Towerlight, where she could also be instrumental in a supporting role and by convincing Vasher to get involved.

Lift should be in her mid-twenties in the second arc and nicely weighed down by guilt over Gavinor and possibly Dalinar's "defeat" and death too. But even if she were older, there could be lots of directions her story could go, apart from parenthood. Like, whatever Cultivation has planned for her, for example. There would be a lot of stuff for an Edgedancer to do in the sunless, perpetually rainy post-Retribution world as well.

[bmcclure7]

35 minutes ago, Isilel said:

 

In Tanavast's PoV we learned that all Radiant spren, except for the Stormfather had some Cultivation in them. Even honorspren. All Radiants should be able to use Lifelight, though we don't really know how volatile it is at this time. I assume that in the past the Nightwatcher used to supply  Radiants with it and until she is found and bonded Lift is going to jump in for her. And/or until the scholars in Urithiru learn to split Towerlight, where she could also be instrumental in a supporting role and by convincing Vasher to get involved.

Lift should be in her mid-twenties in the second arc and nicely weighed down by guilt over Gavinor and possibly Dalinar's "defeat" and death too. But even if she were older, there could be lots of directions her story could go, apart from parenthood. Like, whatever Cultivation has planned for her, for example. There would be a lot of stuff for an Edgedancer to do in the sunless, perpetually rainy post-Retribution world as well.

i meant more about her character arc not what she was going to do.

im not sure cultivation has left the system so I’m not sure her plans are still relevant.

 

its a 15 year time skip so she will be 31 

[Treamayne]

On 12/29/2024 at 10:29 PM, The Stick said:

1. Obviously, her use of Lifelight makes her the singular radiant* who can function during the True Desolation. This is assuming Retribution won't let enlightened surgebinders use his light. This will allow her to use powers outside the towers to fight Retribution's forces.
2. I think Vasher will train her on elements of awakening using Lifelight, kind of hotwiring the two systems together if he can.
   • I also expect her to acquire some powers from her Aviar.
3. She presumably will try to counsel Gav during the time jump, and he may end up accompanying her on her arc in book six.
4. Now Cultivation has abandoned the system, I think any control over the boons and curses will start to disintegrate. This will mean Lift could start to physically develop naturally, and she may lose some of her Cultivation based powers. 
5. At the points of the second arc, she will be about 25. If she has a romance arc, I would say Yanagawn is the big candidate, especially with all that character development this book. The only issue with that is that the Oathgates have broken down, so Azir and Urithiru are not connected.

1. Why would you believe this, much less think it is "obvious?"
   • Radiants are shown in this book to have full use of Towerlight (Lifelight + Stormlight) - except that it escapes quicker and cannot be held as well because they only have Connection to one half. Warlight is the same (Stormlight + Voidlight) and is likely to behave the same way, as soon as they learn how to access it (prayer) or find a source. She may be the primary solo-Radiant in the short term, but that is unlikely to last over 10 years and into book 6. 
   • Mr.T can't just "deny" light's function - it's part of the Realmatics based on Planet+Shardic Intents (just as Sazed could not just "turn off" hemalurgy) - though if he realizes it, he may make it difficult to find. . . 
2. Nope - See WoB Below. He is likely to teach her fighting, mechanics, movement and help her learn her own powers. 
3. Meh - no comment.
4. Not likely. Cultivation exists in the Spiritual Realm, which has neither time nor place - so it will not matter where she is, access to her investiture remains as long as you have the Connection to access it. 
   • Additionally, it's implied that Boons and Curses (at least Nightwatcher's versions) are actually changes to the Spiritweb - requiring no additional investiture to maintain (except when Cultivation deliberately changes that - like Dalinar's memories)
5. Meh - no comment.

WoBs:

Spoiler

Quote

ZenBossanova (paraphrased)

Can Vasher use Stormlight to Awaken things?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

No, all it does is keep him alive. But he has tried and has not figured out how to Awaken things.

Firefight Phoenix signing (Jan. 21, 2015)

Quote

Questioner

From what I understand, Ruin and Preservation create the world together, and they created humanity as copies of the original humankind. So how did they give Allomancy to Scadrial?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. So the magic systems are kind of built into the setting and the world. And there are certain natural pathways that exist, in the same way there are certain natural pathways for them to create life. Which is my explanation for why life is so similar on all the different planets, is that they're following natural pathways, and these magics are kind of the same way. For instance, Lightweaving predates the Shattering of Adonalsium. A lot of these other things are suggestive of magics that existed before that were built around Adonalsium. They weren't 100% created by the Shards, but they also do have the Shards' influence on them.

Skyward San Diego signing (Nov. 7, 2018)

Quote

asmodeus

You've said before that a lot of the magics we see across the cosmere come from an interaction of Shards and their Investiture with the planets they Invest in. What does this mean practically? If Scadrial explodes tomorrow, will Hemalurgy stop working across the cosmere?

Brandon Sanderson

Hemalurgy wouldn't stop working, most likely, but it could. There are ways that you could make it stop working. I kind of mean that the Shards are an innate part of physics in the cosmere, and the magics that arise are an innate part of physics because of that. Like atium seeped out into the Pits of Hathsin, in the same way, these magics are just gonna leak out, and different places are going to affect them. You'll see Lightweaving happening in different places, and the way the Shard is interacting with the local... The way the Shard is is going to affect how Lightweaving is administrated in the various magics, but it's still gonna be there. Hemalurgy is kind of a similar thing to that. You will see Midnight Essence, you will see some of these recurring ideas popping up, and these are like natural parts of the physics, but they're influenced by the Shards on the local planets.

I don't know if that answer, that's gonna be a really fun one for them to transcribe into the Q&A thing, because I go around in circles on that question a ton. Put this part in when you do it.

Footnote: It was a really fun one.
YouTube Spoiler Stream 4 (June 16, 2022)

Quote

CaptainRyan

*written* Could a Shard refuse to "fuel" a magic user? E.g. Could Preservation have refused to "fuel" Ham's pewter? (Please, for the question, assume Preservation is whole and undamaged.)

Brandon Sanderson

*written* No, but he could have interfered.

*spoken* So, the answer is "no, he couldn't." Like, if you just had the Allomancy going, like--

CaptainRyan

They can't shut you off?

Brandon Sanderson

They can't shut you off, but they can interfere with you using it. They could do other things. But, like, the magic, it would be like saying, "I refuse to let gravity work on this person."

CaptainRyan

But couldn't a Shard-- Technically, they can control forces--

Brandon Sanderson

No, they can't, but they can interfere with it, does that make sense? ...Gravity is not gone, but this person is being interfered with and their relationship to these sorts of things.

CaptainRyan

Kind of like if I throw your pen in the air, gravity's not gone, but I've interfered with something.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, exactly. And you can, like, twist the gravity, so it's pointing... But the laws of natures, burning is, like, a law of nature, and things like that. And they can circumvent, and they can twist, and they can bend, but the laws of nature are still the laws of nature.

CaptainRyan

They can't just cut it off?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah.

Oathbringer release party (Nov. 13, 2017)

Quote

asmodeus

You've said before that a lot of the magics we see across the cosmere come from an interaction of Shards and their Investiture with the planets they Invest in. What does this mean practically? If Scadrial explodes tomorrow, will Hemalurgy stop working across the cosmere?

Brandon Sanderson

Hemalurgy wouldn't stop working, most likely, but it could. There are ways that you could make it stop working. I kind of mean that the Shards are an innate part of physics in the cosmere, and the magics that arise are an innate part of physics because of that. Like atium seeped out into the Pits of Hathsin, in the same way, these magics are just gonna leak out, and different places are going to affect them. You'll see Lightweaving happening in different places, and the way the Shard is interacting with the local... The way the Shard is is going to affect how Lightweaving is administrated in the various magics, but it's still gonna be there. Hemalurgy is kind of a similar thing to that. You will see Midnight Essence, you will see some of these recurring ideas popping up, and these are like natural parts of the physics, but they're influenced by the Shards on the local planets.

I don't know if that answer, that's gonna be a really fun one for them to transcribe into the Q&A thing, because I go around in circles on that question a ton. Put this part in when you do it.

Footnote: It was a really fun one.
YouTube Spoiler Stream 4 (June 16, 2022)

 

 

[The Stick]

1 hour ago, Treamayne said:

1. Why would you believe this, much less think it is "obvious?"
   • Radiants are shown in this book to have full use of Towerlight (Lifelight + Stormlight) - except that it escapes quicker and cannot be held as well because they only have Connection to one half. Warlight is the same (Stormlight + Voidlight) and is likely to behave the same way, as soon as they learn how to access it (prayer) or find a source. She may be the primary solo-Radiant in the short term, but that is unlikely to last over 10 years and into book 6. 
   • Mr.T can't just "deny" light's function - it's part of the Realmatics based on Planet+Shardic Intents (just as Sazed could not just "turn off" hemalurgy) - though if he realizes it, he may make it difficult to find. . . 
2. Nope - See WoB Below. He is likely to teach her fighting, mechanics, movement and help her learn her own powers. 
3. Meh - no comment.
4. Not likely. Cultivation exists in the Spiritual Realm, which has neither time nor place - so it will not matter where she is, access to her investiture remains as long as you have the Connection to access it. 
   • Additionally, it's implied that Boons and Curses (at least Nightwatcher's versions) are actually changes to the Spiritweb - requiring no additional investiture to maintain (except when Cultivation deliberately changes that - like Dalinar's memories)
5. Meh - no comment.

WoBs:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

1: Towerlight really does not travel well outside the tower. I meant that she is likely the sole radiant with powers outside the Tower. Plus, to get Voidlight, you sang the Song of Prayer and Odium directly gave it to you. The Everstorm does not give it. I assume you just ask Mr T for some retributionlight, and he infuses some gemstones.

4: Fair point if it is a Spirit web change.  

[Treamayne]

22 minutes ago, The Stick said:

Towerlight really does not travel well outside the tower. I meant that she is likely the sole radiant with powers outside the Tower. Plus, to get Voidlight, you sang the Song of Prayer and Odium directly gave it to you. The Everstorm does not give it. I assume you just ask Mr T for some retributionlight, and he infuses some gemstones.

WaT Ch 146:

Spoiler

A day had passed since Odium’s Ascension to Retribution. He had spoken to them, via messenger. He would be in touch. For now, the listeners were allowed his Light to fuel their powers, should they wish it. The messenger also explained that they could use it to grow crops, as Stormlight had once done.

They received this Light once a day, at midnight, by placing their spheres beneath the sky and asking him to bless them. Retribution asked for nothing in exchange, and had promised he did not see himself as their god. 

So, Warlight is granted using a different version of the Song of Prayer. 

[Ewery1]

9 hours ago, Treamayne said:

WaT Ch 146:

  Hide contents

A day had passed since Odium’s Ascension to Retribution. He had spoken to them, via messenger. He would be in touch. For now, the listeners were allowed his Light to fuel their powers, should they wish it. The messenger also explained that they could use it to grow crops, as Stormlight had once done.

They received this Light once a day, at midnight, by placing their spheres beneath the sky and asking him to bless them. Retribution asked for nothing in exchange, and had promised he did not see himself as their god. 

So, Warlight is granted using a different version of the Song of Prayer. 

While all of this may track from a purely worldbuilding POV, from a storytelling POV it would be very strange to set up a crisis of no radiants/lack of access to light and then solve that problem during a time skip. I have more faith in Brandon’s writing abilities than that. Also - Lift is perfectly positioned as the flashback & likely main character of book 6 to function in a drained of accessible light world. It’s perfect.

[Treamayne]

13 hours ago, Ewery1 said:

a storytelling POV it would be very strange to set up a crisis of no radiants/lack of access to light and then solve that problem during a time skip.

I guess I never saw it as a crisis. The solution was mentioned the chapter before anybody mentioned a problem with a lack of light. (Chapters 146 and 147) and the only ones to mention a lack of light as a "problem" are Shallan and May:

Spoiler

Quote

“There is no more Stormfather,” the gateway spren said, stepping onto the platform. “There is no more Honor. There is no more Stormlight. Our era has ended.”

Shallan looked around the ten Oathgates, where each of those spren was shrinking down as well.

“No … more Stormlight?” Shallan asked. “For how long?”

“Forever.”

Quote

“Well,” Kushkam said. “We ten are not beaten. We are Shardbearers, and can grow our ranks for as long as the others who came with Maya are willing.”

“We also have all those Radiants at Urithiru,” May added. “They have powers, even if they can’t leave for now.”

Adolin nodded, but he felt troubled. Shallan reportedly lived, for which he was incredibly relieved. 

 

With a 10 year timeskip (at least), I expect most of these problems to be overcome before book six. It's like when Shallan lists them out - 10 years for Jasnah to learn to make Elsegates, 10 years to learn to use Towerlight and Warlight (and they have already learned to use Towerlight for Manifesting in Shadesmar), 10 Years to discover that the Reachers with the Listeners have already found Retribution's Perpendicularity. . .

So, I came to the opposite conclusion as you - I expect all of this to be partially or wholly solved and we will learn the new worldbuilding about changes to Roshar in Book 6 (but not some weird, drawn-out arc of solving problems that should be dealt with in the timeskip).

Edited January 1, 2025 by Treamayne
SPAG

[alder24]

19 hours ago, Isilel said:

All Radiants should be able to use Lifelight, though we don't really know how volatile it is at this time.

Mraize said that Lift is weird because she's powered by Lifelight, not Stormlight. I think no other Radiant can use Lifelight because they lack a sufficiently strong Connection to Cultivation. This is shown by Venli, who because of her bond with a Voidspren is capable of using Voidlight - without Voidspren in her gemheart, she wouldn't have been able to use both lights. RoW ch 60:

Quote

“This is no slave,” the man said. “But if your master does happen to ever locate Cultivation, suggest that he ask her precisely why she made an Edgedancer who is fueled by Lifelight and not Stormlight.” 

[Treamayne]

35 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Mraize said that Lift is weird because she's powered by Lifelight, not Stormlight. I think no other Radiant can use Lifelight because they lack a sufficiently strong Connection to Cultivation. This is shown by Venli, who because of her bond with a Voidspren is capable of using Voidlight - without Voidspren in her gemheart, she wouldn't have been able to use both lights. RoW ch 60:

Which is why I mentioned Jaxlim as a potential indicator. Singer Radiant but without a Voidspren. So how those two differ in their interactions with Warlight will be a huge clue to how it all works.

[Lord Spirit he/him]

24 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Mraize said that Lift is weird because she's powered by Lifelight, not Stormlight. I think no other Radiant can use Lifelight because they lack a sufficiently strong Connection to Cultivation. This is shown by Venli, who because of her bond with a Voidspren is capable of using Voidlight - without Voidspren in her gemheart, she wouldn't have been able to use both lights. RoW ch 60:

The quote you put seems to indicate that Lift is special because she can use lightlife and because she can’t use Stormlight. We haven’t seen any other radiants use lifelight, but I It’s possible that they only used Stormlight because it was way more common. I’m pretty sure the only known getting lifelight is Lift, so nobody has had the chance to try. 

[Isilel]

7 hours ago, alder24 said:

Mraize said that Lift is weird because she's powered by Lifelight, not Stormlight.

 

Since when is Mraize an expert in this area? How would he know if the Nightwatcher's Bondsmith used to provide Lifelight in the past? As has already been mentioned, Lift is weird in that she can't use stormlight at all.

Further, from Tanavast's PoV on the making of Radiant spren, one variety of them, presumably the Cultivationspren, were created by her alone. Retribution also sort of confirmed it, when he specifically mentioned that he couldn't absorb spren purely of Cultivation and would need to hunt them down. 

So the question is more how the  Edgedancers have been able to use stormlight until now, than whether Radiants could use Lifelight, IMHO.

I really don't see Venli's relevance here - Timbre is uncorrupted, so of course she  needed a voidspren in her gemheart to be able to use voidlight. But all Radiant spren, except for the late Stormfather, have some Cultivation in them, even the honorspren. So, why wouldn't their Radiants be able to use Lifelight? They have Connection to it.

[Lord Spirit he/him]

2 hours ago, Isilel said:

Further, from Tanavast's PoV on the making of Radiant spren, one variety of them, presumably the Cultivationspren, were created by her alone. Retribution also sort of confirmed it, when he specifically mentioned that he couldn't absorb spren purely of Cultivation and would need to hunt them down. 

I believe he is referring to the nightwatcher, and then he made the stormfather. 

[Raven Wilder]

My guess would be that Lift's story will involve going on a journey to Rall Elorim. Birthplace and where Lift's mom can most likely be found for lots of juicy character drama, has that cryptic "City of Shadows" moniker applied to it, and would provide an opportunity to explore what's happened to Iri now that so many of the Iriali have beat feet.

Edited January 2, 2025 by Raven Wilder

[The Stick]

9 hours ago, Raven Wilder said:

My guess would be that Lift's story will involve going on a journey to Rall Elorim. Birthplace and where Lift's mom can most likely be found for lots of juicy character drama, has that cryptic "City of Shadows" moniker applied to it, and would provide an opportunity to explore what's happened to Iri now that so many of the Iriali have beat feet.

I think that this is probably right. My main reason is that RoW was originally planned in Rall Elorim, until he realized Urithiru was better. This means he probably still has a ton of Rall Elorim world building already ready.

[Isilel]

On 1/2/2025 at 5:28 PM, The Stick said:

My main reason is that RoW was originally planned in Rall Elorim

 

I have to say that it is hard for me to see how Kaladin's and Navani's plotlines could have happened there. Would Kal have been protecting Cusicesh instead of the Sibling from the Unmaking and the whole thing would have culminated in the exodus of Iriali, which now just happened independently? How would  Navani have fit into it? Would both of them have been part of an embassy? But Iri had already joined Odium's side in OB...

Or were the 2 of them supposed to have completely different plots than in RoW, with him still hitting the 4th Ideal somehow? I am really curious and hope that Sanderson would share his initial ideas about it at some point.

I am sure that Rall Elorim is going to feature prominently in Lift's earlier flashbacks, but my understanding is that Iri is going to be a wholly singer country now, with almost all humans gone.

Judging by Sigzil's description of the Iriali caravan, foreigners who lived there joined them in their flight. Though I can't help but wonder how all these people and their chulls(!) are going to be supplied with sufficient water and food during the weeks or months that it would take them to arrive. And if they are going to Scadrial, which seems the most likely destination, how are they going to deal with less oxygen, 30% more gravity, unfamiliar infectious diseases... RIP chulls, of course, but I don't see non-Iriali doing particularly well either. Iriali, I suspect, have some special investiture that allows them to quickly adapt to new conditions.

[Nitpicking]

8 hours ago, Isilel said:

Judging by Sigzil's description of the Iriali caravan, foreigners who lived there joined them in their flight. Though I can't help but wonder how all these people and their chulls(!) are going to be supplied with sufficient water and food during the weeks or months that it would take them to arrive. And if they are going to Scadrial, which seems the most likely destination, how are they going to deal with less oxygen, 30% more gravity, unfamiliar infectious diseases... RIP chulls, of course, but I don't see non-Iriali doing particularly well either. Iriali, I suspect, have some special investiture that allows them to quickly adapt to new conditions.

There's no evidence of Iriali visiting Scadrial, nor any special reason to go there. We do know they were on Lumar at some point between the Stormlight Archive and Tress.

[Aredor]

4 hours ago, Nitpicking said:

There's no evidence of Iriali visiting Scadrial

There's a quote somewhere in TLM where someone says something about "Golden fairy people" in Bilming. That seems to indicate that the Iriali went to Scadrial after leaving Roshar.

[Nitpicking]

5 hours ago, Aredor said:

There's a quote somewhere in TLM where someone says something about "Golden fairy people" in Bilming. That seems to indicate that the Iriali went to Scadrial after leaving Roshar.

I must have missed that.

[alder24]

10 hours ago, Nitpicking said:

There's no evidence of Iriali visiting Scadrial, nor any special reason to go there. We do know they were on Lumar at some point between the Stormlight Archive and Tress.

There is one, TLM ch 32:

Quote

“So,” she said, running a hand through her disheveled hair, “you know who killed Tobal? Was it those people with the golden hair living on the east side? They’re some kind of fairy creature; I know it.”

And the reason to go there is the Iriali Long Trail.

[Ripheus23]

Crackpot theory: Lift will double-bond the Sibling and the Nightwatcher to help Sylphrena become the full "Stormdaughter". So, one of the major arcs is Lift meeting up with Sylphrena and Kaladin at the Last Return(???), to lead them to the Valley, on an initial segment of a huge, deliberate quest to regenerate the highstorm system to help re-cultivate Roshar's proper ecology. A next major arc is Lift and Wyndle interacting with the Nightwatcher, with some dramatique having to do with the Nightwatcher being reluctant to assume the bond, or there being an unusual magical obstacle to making the bond, or they figure out Sylphrena has to approve the Words (why, though???* the Siblng didn't need to wait on the Stormfather???), or who knows.** To be honest, I shouldn't even grace this with the name of "theory," or even merely "hypothesis" or "guess," maybe more like "early-2025 fever dream" 

On 12/29/2024 at 8:29 PM, The Stick said:

I also expect her to acquire some powers from her Aviar.

I used to think it was semi-confirmed that the Ones Above were future Rosharans. I don't know why I thought this, but if it was true, or rather at least if the Ones Above include some Rosharans, then I'm assuming that Rosharans at large at some point see their "chickens," maybe including Lift's/Mraize's (or descendants of these?), getting up to some extreme shenanigans that make them go, "And where do these storming birds come from, exactly?"

 

*EDIT: maybe they need to train Sylphrena in the art of accepting oaths (she can do it, but she could also do it better...), and using the bonding of the Nightwatcher as an example would be a great way to do this? Not necessarily contrived, but for some reason my sense of Lift's personality doesn't fit this image well enough, though. Also, has Lift not sworn the Fifth Ideal of the Edgedancers? I don't know why, but my memory is crazy-blanking out on this, so I don't remember if she has. If she hasn't, we have some reason for a major book 6 scene where she does this. Maybe it takes her so long because it turns out that not swearing it is one of the few things still restraining her aging at all. Like, it seems like her aging is happening anyway, but maybe part of the final Ideal of her Progression is to let go of being a child "completely" and step fully into "maturity"??? Or, better, she transcends the old dialectical standard of naivete-vs.-maturity, finding a way to have an innocent heart and be truly, deeply mature at the same time. In this, she undoes the image of Cognitive War in her heart, thus furthering the Spiritual process of undermining Retribution's Intent.

 

**I was going through the Coppermind and it says:

Quote

The Stormfather is infuriated by her [Lift's] existence, claiming that her powers, granted to her by the Nightwatcher, were made specifically to defy his own will

Given what we now know about the Stormfather's will, what does this mean??? That Lift was meant by the Nightwatcher to take up the Shard of Honor?????? Or to prevent anyone else from taking up the Shard? (Well, THAT would turn out to have not worked, at all...) To make Gavilar into a good person? (I ask that thusly: when Lift was given per powers, Gavilar was still alive, and still in the eye of the Stormfather.) To interfere with the contest of champions somehow? (Did she end up doing that w.r.t. Gavinor, sort of???) Something else (probably)?

Edited January 4, 2025 by Ripheus23

[Nitpicking]

7 hours ago, Ripheus23 said:

I used to think it was semi-confirmed that the Ones Above were future Rosharans. I don't know why I thought this, but if it was true, or rather at least if the Ones Above include some Rosharans, then I'm assuming that Rosharans at large at some point see their "chickens," maybe including Lift's/Mraize's (or descendants of these?), getting up to some extreme shenanigans that make them go, "And where do these storming birds come from, exactly?"

Have you read the Isles of the Emberdark preview chapter?

Spoiler

At least the original Ones Above seem to be Scadrian.